How long?

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
katadder
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Postby katadder » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:01 am

thats what i mean though, why is the EFTF section only 3 men? its crazy. a lt would either be part of a fire team or like i said have more men so he can do his job.
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Richgo22
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Postby Richgo22 » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:22 am

Use an EFTF command and take a challenger and an infantry squad to hold the bad ones off. . .
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Postby Lorcan Nagle » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:51 am

katadder wrote:thats what i mean though, why is the EFTF section only 3 men? its crazy. a lt would either be part of a fire team or like i said have more men so he can do his job.
You can always just take a half strength standard squad and keep them close together.
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katadder
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Postby katadder » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:55 am

but thats still 7 men, should be a ful lfire team for the lt.
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Lorcan Nagle
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Postby Lorcan Nagle » Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:03 am

it's close enough though, and it fits inside a Warrior
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Postby Chiwie » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:34 pm

katadder wrote:thats what i mean though, why is the EFTF section only 3 men? its crazy. a lt would either be part of a fire team or like i said have more men so he can do his job.
because it is in RL TOE? (thats a guess, it is in the ADF)
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Postby The Old Soldier » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:42 pm

katadder wrote:thats what i mean though, why is the EFTF section only 3 men? its crazy. a lt would either be part of a fire team or like i said have more men so he can do his job.
Only need three men. The Lt, the man that makes the buscuits, and the one that pours the tea. :wink:
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katadder
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Postby katadder » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:45 pm

need the spare to send out for milk etc (gofor)
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Xorrandor
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Postby Xorrandor » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:52 pm

katadder wrote:need the spare to send out for milk etc (gofor)
That's the Warrior driver, isn't it? That's why they're always packaged together.
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Postby retaf33c » Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:57 pm

The Old Soldier wrote: Just use the EFTF one. After all how different can it be? I use Eureka metal minis for my command element. If you want it to be a 4 man Command group, add a extra rifleman for 15pts. Easy.

Same holds true for MEA government Command. Use the PLA card. Till MP prints their cards, which I expect to see in the next issue of S&P. Again models from Eureka will work very well to represent them. I just put together my MEA government Platoon using Eureka figures.
Can do for the US. As for the MEA, any idea what the Revered Leader abilities would be and what kind of cost to use. I kind of like the thought of using the extra snipers he comes with.
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Postby The Old Soldier » Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:19 pm

Lets see,... Revered Leader. movement 5, Target 4, Armor -, Kill 7, 50pts.
Weapon AK 20" 1D6.

The Revered Leader may attach himself in any MEA militia Squad unit. While attached the Revered Leader acts as the Leader of the Unit. If he does the MEA unit gains the following traits.

True Believer: That unit may not be suppressed while the Revered Leader is attached to the unit.

BodyGuard: If the Revered Leader is targeted to be removed, one of the other models in the unit can take his place for removal within 2". Defending players choice. If the Revered Leader is targeted to be removed by a sniper, one of the other models in the unit can take his place for removal within 2". Firing Players choice (LOS still applies).

Third Action: The unit with the Revered Leaer attached gains a third action each turn.
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katadder
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Postby katadder » Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:18 am

i would say no to the sniper bit, after all thats what snipers are for, and you cant save him if you dont know the shot is coming.
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Postby The Old Soldier » Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:31 am

Sorry but you have to have something to keep the Sniper from being overpowerful, thus the reason for the rule, I gave.

Snipers can tell what men are giving orders but they will not know who is top dog of the kennel.

I really don't like the rules that allow player to pick out certain models in a firegroup anyhow, and prefer a more random result. The Sword and the Flame Rules for Colonial Skirmish is a good example of random results. In that game you use a deck of cards. Aces represent Leader hits, Face cards special models (like RPG men, SAWs and such) Normal numbered cards were hits on basic troopers. I really enjoyed this simple system. For Snipers I allow the Sniper to choose the model ONLY if he makes a hit and pull a Heart.

I'm presently working on a Colonial System using BFE with a more random movement and firing system, much like TSATF.
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Postby shotgun-toting chipmunk » Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:32 pm

The Old Soldier wrote: Snipers can tell what men are giving orders but they will not know who is top dog of the kennel.
Seriously, in a game that focuses on squads and fire teams, what's the difference?
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The Old Soldier
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Postby The Old Soldier » Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:56 pm

shotgun-toting chipmunk wrote:
The Old Soldier wrote: Snipers can tell what men are giving orders but they will not know who is top dog of the kennel.
Seriously, in a game that focuses on squads and fire teams, what's the difference?
When you play larger game there is a difference. I dislike a game that focuses on angles and dangles. This is not a pure skirmish game, but what is called a GRAND skirmish game. There is a difference. But, hell do what you want. I was just giving suggestions.

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Postby Xorrandor » Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:56 pm

The Old Soldier wrote:Sorry but you have to have something to keep the Sniper from being overpowerful, thus the reason for the rule, I gave.

Snipers can tell what men are giving orders but they will not know who is top dog of the kennel.
So only MEA snipers can take out enemy leaders? Seems like the training difference would argue against this, if nothing else. Here's the hint for snipers: the one that everyone jumps in front of when the bullets start flying? He's the top dog.

I'm not sure I like snipers either, from a rules and gaming standpoint. But if you're going to nerf them, then nerf them all.
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Postby The Old Soldier » Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:05 pm

I have nerfed them all in the games I have played with them at home. Like I said play however you feel. Remove that rule if you want. I don't care. I just gave a suggestion, for someone that wanted a Revered Leader card to play around with till the real one comes out.

Nothing kills the FUN of a game more than being crippled by a cheap shot early in a game. But remove the bodyguard rule and play it straight. You will have to keep you whole unit with the Revered Leader hidden like you do the present command models. I wanted the Revered Leader to act differently and more aggressive, to compensate that, I gave the unit he was in some powerful traits, and to counterbalance those powerful traits the RL can only effect the unit he is in.

There are the reasons, love or leave 'em. Or better yet write up your own, instead of just complaining.
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Xorrandor
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Postby Xorrandor » Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:14 pm

I guess I'm just surprised that you threw in the anti-sniper rule for Bodyguard, if you've already nerfed snipers in general. I would expect anti-sniper rules to appear separately, not on individual cards.

I haven't written my idea of the Revered Leader down, because I was going to treat them like any of the other command units. You wanted to make them into something a little different: that's cool and all, but it does leave you open to accusations of power-gaming, or micro-managing, or just plain wackiness. In the standard game, where platoon commanders are vulnerable to snipers, having a leader that isn't vulnerable is a big advantage; in your home games, where others are similarly protected, it probably doesn't make much of a difference. But you didn't mention your house rules in the intial posting, so it jumped out at a lot of people as odd.

Personally, as the only leader with a designated cohort of Bodyguards, I would expect the Revered Leader to be easier for a sniper to discern, and thus more vulnerable to sniper fire. YMM(obviously)V.
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Postby The Old Soldier » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:06 pm

Rule Number one in designing games. NEVER let facts destroy gameplay. The advantages of other command units is the fact they can hide, stay well out of the range of combat and keep giving that extra order. You could make the RL the same, but then you lose the flavor of the model. Rule #4 flavor it to make it stand out.

I sure there are others out there smarter than myself that will come up with something better. Or they may just simplify that the bodyguard rule works the same and protects the Mullah. Otherwise if you have the Mullah to work only on 1 unit that he is in. That unit will become useless since putting them in harms way to gain the extra action will have the Mullah targeted. It is all about game play and what's fun not facts.

Facts should always be used when possible, but if there is a conflict because facts get in the way of fun. Fun trumps facts everytime.
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Postby The Old Soldier » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:12 pm

The only other suggestion I can come up with for the Mullah and the Bodyguard rule is to change how the Bodyguard works. Instead of making it a sure thing against the sniper, do this....

Bodyguard: If the mullah is to be removed, then another model may take his place if within 2" of the mullah. If targeted to be removed by a Sniper and a bodyguard is within 2" of the mullah, then roll a D6 with no modifiers. On a 1 or 2 the mullah is not saved by the Sniper.

There something that might work better.
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