Dates slipping again !!!!

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
tneva82
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Postby tneva82 » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:21 pm

Mr Evil wrote:my fear is the delay is to have clear windows on the copters, wich il have to paint black anyway to match in style with the shadows and technicals on the games table, these are games minis not toys, we dont need clear windows and crew inside, save £5-£10 and leave them out.
a) some people actually prefer clear windows
b) it's lot easier to paint the windows black than to replace them with clear windows with interior
c) therefore clear windows are better option if you want to aim to cover both sides...
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Xorrandor
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Postby Xorrandor » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:52 pm

Mr Evil wrote:Mini companies can learn so much from how PP are doing stuff.
Honestly, I think they have. We wouldn't have seen four factions in the initial release otherwise; we would have seen two. We wouldn't be seeing (scheduled) monthly releases for every faction; we would be seeing several releases for one faction, then several for another a few months later. We wouldn't be seeing minis with quick-start rules packaged in; we would be seeing a big reference book that you have to flip through for ten games before you remember enough to play. We wouldn't be seeing cards coming with the minis, but rather army reference books that you want to buy to use the latest minis.

I think these are good lessons, but Mongoose has been stumbling on implementation. AT-43 seems to suffer from the opposite problem: they're still mostly operating under the old theory of sales, but their implementation is better. Unfortunately, the old theory of sales still resulted in sales (e.g. GW). Implementation is timeless.

(edited for grammar)
xbowmen
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Postby xbowmen » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:16 pm

Excuse me for not knowing this acronym but is At-43?
Den
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Postby 127th Angry Angels » Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:07 pm

It's a pre painted Sci fi game by rackham
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Xorrandor
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Postby Xorrandor » Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:14 pm

xbowmen wrote:Excuse me for not knowing this acronym but is At-43?
That's no acronym, that's the whole name. And yes, it's the pre-painted SF game from Rackham.
vitalis6969
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Postby vitalis6969 » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:54 pm

You know, I have been pretty harsh on Mongoose for the whole Battlefield:Evo game. I mean, the rules are awesome, but in the other senses I haven't been supportive at all.

But in a bit of retrospection I am going to get on the old Mongoose bandwagon.

I think that Mongoose released before they were actually prepared and fully thought out. The reason that I think they did this? To satisfy us, the players. To give us the game that we wanted as quick as possible. I've never seen Mongoose as the type of company that uses greed above satisfaction like some company whose initials are GW.

With the delay in release dates and the seemingly unbalanced/weird force selection I think shows that Mongoose may have come out of the gates too soon. Manufacturing problems, quality issues, shipping issues and pricing all seem to support this from a business perspective.

Now they are kinda stuck, if they pull back to get everything in order, the game may die off. If they continue the way they are, the game may die off.

Hopefully things will get sorted out quickly and professionaly, I would hate to see the game go belly up.

-V
B5 ACTA, Tanked... Battlefield Evolution, Tanked... Mongoose Traveller, this is your last chance...
combatdroid113
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Postby combatdroid113 » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:20 am

what they have gotten out already is impressive
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Oldbury
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Postby Oldbury » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:25 am

Ok, so how about Mongoose just rush out all the waves whatever state they may be in? How many people would be sat saying "YEY we got our new wave?" Thought so, people instead will complain at the poor quality. Now personally I'm more than happy to wait for models to be released when they're ready and not a moment before hand.
Templar
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Postby Templar » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:12 pm

Oldbury wrote:Ok, so how about Mongoose just rush out all the waves whatever state they may be in? How many people would be sat saying "YEY we got our new wave?" Thought so, people instead will complain at the poor quality. Now personally I'm more than happy to wait for models to be released when they're ready and not a moment before hand.
No, i think they need more people working one one product, so they can put out something and support it, instead of looking down the pipeline and putting out inferior products.

So, in summation, due to "great" service and a plethera (or lack thereof) of products, Mongoose is most likely losing 4-6 players in indiana to AT-43.

Go ahead and delete this, but unless things change, I can bet word of mouth is eventually going to tank this game. All of us were planning on playing SST:evo. Some of us were original SST players. Poor support can only last so long, and once people have been burned once, they don't want to be burned again.

I am not a fanboy - I am a gamer. A gamer who likes to support his habit on games. Don't make product, I jump ship. That's that. Word of mouth travels fast.


Word of mouth travels fast.
dacis2
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Postby dacis2 » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:26 am

indeed. the problem with the "when they're ready" argument is that it only works when you haven't released a product, otherwise, you're just leaving your supporters hanging.
Bede
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Postby Bede » Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:39 am

Templar wrote:
Oldbury wrote:Ok, so how about Mongoose just rush out all the waves whatever state they may be in? How many people would be sat saying "YEY we got our new wave?" Thought so, people instead will complain at the poor quality. Now personally I'm more than happy to wait for models to be released when they're ready and not a moment before hand.
No, i think they need more people working one one product, so they can put out something and support it, instead of looking down the pipeline and putting out inferior products.

So, in summation, due to "great" service and a plethera (or lack thereof) of products, Mongoose is most likely losing 4-6 players in indiana to AT-43.

Go ahead and delete this, but unless things change, I can bet word of mouth is eventually going to tank this game. All of us were planning on playing SST:evo. Some of us were original SST players. Poor support can only last so long, and once people have been burned once, they don't want to be burned again.

I am not a fanboy - I am a gamer. A gamer who likes to support his habit on games. Don't make product, I jump ship. That's that. Word of mouth travels fast.


Word of mouth travels fast.
God, you are all so dramatic.
combatdroid113
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Postby combatdroid113 » Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:44 am

Feeeeeeeeeelllll SST players PAAAIIIIINNNN

jking :lol:
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MaxSteiner
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Postby MaxSteiner » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:49 am

Oldbury wrote: Ok, so how about Mongoose just rush out all the waves whatever state they may be in? How many people would be sat saying "YEY we got our new wave?" Thought so, people instead will complain at the poor quality. Now personally I'm more than happy to wait for models to be released when they're ready and not a moment before hand.
(Not aimed at you in anyway oldbury, its just your post got me thinking, then raving :D)
Not being funny here, but thats not what happened with wave 1 is it?
First they were so poor that Mongoose wasn't prepared to sell them, then it turned out they were, and people still bought them!
More to the point the purchasers then made excuse 'Mongoose is a small company' "GW models took years to get to the point they are' 'Im supporting Mongoose' etc etc.
Obviously this doesn't carry into the wider gaming world, but I honestly get the impression Mongoose could put absolutely anything out and there would be people on here who would buy it, and claim its the best thing they've ever seen, no matter when it appears on the release schedule.

If Mongoose have admitted the problem don't try and pretend everything is alright, or that this sort of thing happens to all gaming companies.
Any kind of business plan Mongoose might have had for BF:E has gone out the window with all these delays, at a time when they have another game coming out, so its clearly not all about quality at this point, at least some of it is going to be desperately attempting to get the game back onto a release schedule (Unless they really are only working on the one wave at a time, which would be one of the main bottle necks in production!).

Mongoose will save it, they have to much invested in the game not too, and in all honesty they have to sort it if they want to change retailers minds about Mongoose miniature games lifespans (Lets be brutally honest here, the track record would be terrible if this dies too).

What am I trying to say? .... Well I guess, just because you like something, doesnt mean its incapable of making mistakes or being wrong does it? DC's continuity is a heaving pile of cack 7 months after a full restart, doesn't stop me liking green Lantern comics though does it?
Marvel Civil war was one of the most anticlimatic comic events of all time, doesnt stop me reading the Irredemable Antman every month!

If you try and claim that every other company has the same trouble sticking to release dates and dont at least criticize when Mongoose really do deserve it then you're going to end up with another SST V1.
Terrible models will come out every month, the people on here will say 'OMG tats teh best model evers!!!!11!!!11!' (Purposly as far from anyones posts on here as possible :D) 'Im gonna buy 100!' 'If GW did this model it would cost 100 billion pounds and wouldnt be as good!!!!!!', any dissenting comment in the world at large is interpreted as Mongoose haters from the EE camp, and the whole forum becomes some sort of insulated bubble.
Mongoose will somehow get the impression that whats coming out is acceptable, that people do like it, and that it doesnt really matter what comes out, someone will buy it. Before you know it you have models like these coming out, months late:

Image

Image

Image

And people are still raving about them! Then before you know it, your favorite game is on hiatus, because shops are rammed full of models like those, which none will buy, and in fact damage the game beyond that since potential customers see the pap piled on the shelves and migrate to something else...

Mongoose do deserve our loyalty, but admiting things are wrong from time to time is always a good idea.
For the record I think the current wave of vehicles for Evo is looking pretty good, Mongoose seem to have sorted out the base coats so they look less plastic which is admirable. And I dont think the delays too bad at this point, a couple of months here or there, who cares. But if Mongoose have to switch focus to SST:EVO and the BF:E date slip even further, I think there might start to be some major problems.
Quark wrote:EGADS! When did MAX BECOME THE VOICE OF REASON AROUND HERE?! :shock: :lol:
The Old Soldier
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Postby The Old Soldier » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:46 pm

^ Max, Man of TRUTH. 8)
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combatdroid113
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Postby combatdroid113 » Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:16 pm

am i one of the few people that like the skinnies range??
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emperorpenguin
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Postby emperorpenguin » Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:36 pm

combatdroid113 wrote:am i one of the few people that like the skinnies range??
some were ok but the Slaves were terrible
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Richgo22
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Postby Richgo22 » Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:53 pm

You can look at it as you please. . . is the glass half full or half empty?
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Postby The Old Soldier » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:23 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:
combatdroid113 wrote:am i one of the few people that like the skinnies range??
some were ok but the Slaves were terrible
QFT.

My favorites are the Raiders and Warriors. Plenty of retro action. I was not real fond of the rest of the range. Slaves, well,... Emperorpenguin states it best. :lol:
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Captain_Nemo
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Postby Captain_Nemo » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:57 am

And here I thought that the Skinnies were supposed to be terrible..

:oops:
I said,"Qapla! Baaaaby!"
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Postby Rob_A » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:37 am

combatdroid113 wrote:am i one of the few people that like the skinnies range??
Nope, I love em, just hate the slaves! :lol:

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