Any sense how the game is doing commercially?

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
Bede
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Any sense how the game is doing commercially?

Postby Bede » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:00 pm

BF Evo, and the miniatures, have grown on me over time.

Yet I'm aware of very few who play it my area (Eastern Pennsylvania, USA).

Does anyone have any sense as to how it's selling on a global basis?

Will it make it to the 5th Wave (or whatever the projected ultimate wave is?).
xbowmen
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Re: Any sense how the game is doing commercially?

Postby xbowmen » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:39 pm

Bede wrote:BF Evo, and the miniatures, have grown on me over time.

Yet I'm aware of very few who play it my area (Eastern Pennsylvania, USA).

Does anyone have any sense as to how it's selling on a global basis?

Will it make it to the 5th Wave (or whatever the projected ultimate wave is?).
Where in Eastern Pa? I live between Lancaster and Reading. I've run about 8 games so far with 6 to 8 people. Only 3 people have bought into it, but I'll keep running games to promote it. I plan to run a game at Fall In.
Den
cordas
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Postby cordas » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:51 pm

Was chatting to my local Forbidden Planet about it, and they have a major downer about the game, only sold one box of mini's and half a dozen rule books. They say lots of people haven't been impressed by the mini's and think they are too expensive so are just using other minis.

They are thinking of doing a gaming day, and am trying to convince them to do a table for BF:Evo as I and some mates play it obviously.
We play CTA/SFoS (using counters and FA models), Starship Troopers (evo), 40k, Flames of War, BF EVO

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Bede
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Re: Any sense how the game is doing commercially?

Postby Bede » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:52 pm

xbowmen wrote:
Bede wrote:BF Evo, and the miniatures, have grown on me over time.

Yet I'm aware of very few who play it my area (Eastern Pennsylvania, USA).

Does anyone have any sense as to how it's selling on a global basis?

Will it make it to the 5th Wave (or whatever the projected ultimate wave is?).
Where in Eastern Pa? I live between Lancaster and Reading. I've run about 8 games so far with 6 to 8 people. Only 3 people have bought into it, but I'll keep running games to promote it. I plan to run a game at Fall In.
Den
Hey Den,

I'm in suburban Philadelphia. (Upper Dublin, Montgomery County).
Bede
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Postby Bede » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:57 pm

cordas wrote:Was chatting to my local Forbidden Planet about it, and they have a major downer about the game, only sold one box of mini's and half a dozen rule books. They say lots of people haven't been impressed by the mini's and think they are too expensive so are just using other minis.

They are thinking of doing a gaming day, and am trying to convince them to do a table for BF:Evo as I and some mates play it obviously.
I'm not particularly impressed by the minis either, but I'm not as down on them as I was.

One thing that I do think puts many off is their price. Honestly, they are no better than Star Wars miniatures in either sculpting or paint job, but they are $30.00 U.S. for a box of around 8 infantry models as opposed to the $15.00 U.S. the Star Wars minis run for a box of 7 I think.

I assume that Mongoose can't/won't sell them any lower due to economy of scale (Wizards is of course much, much larger) but the price differential is a big deterrent to those people use to buying pre-painted minis who would be natural converts to the game.

Sigh.
bigtmac68
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Another Eastern PA player

Postby bigtmac68 » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:58 pm

Ive run a couple demos at my LGS in south Philly suburbs. Delaware County.

I have one other player putting a force together and a couple others waiting until some more models come out. MY LGS owner has sold only two books and the figs I have bought from him.

Availability has been a big problem for him and he only does special order, he does not stock the shelves :(

If either of you eastern pa guys want to get a game in let me know, I usually game on sundays at Alternate Universe on McDade blvd in Glenolden ( next exit south from airport on 95 )

im allways willing to take a trip for a game or two as well.

Big Troy
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Postby retaf33c » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:37 pm

I believe that sales have slowed a bit at my LGS. Most of the complaints are about the price. $29.95 for 6 - 8 minis is a bit much. I've also seen tanks at Toys R Us that are painted as well and very close to the same scale for less than half the cost.

Some of made comment about the paint jobs.

The paint jobs are not up to my standard for my own painting but not by much. However, not having to paint them saves me an incredible amount of time and allows me to focus on painting minis from another game. This offsets some of the cost in my mind, but others don't see it that way.
Bede
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Postby Bede » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:41 pm

[quote="retaf33c"]I believe that sales have slowed a bit at my LGS. Most of the complaints are about the price. $29.95 for 6 - 8 minis is a bit much. quote]

The funny thing is that it is not out of line with the prices charged by many companies for unpainted figures. For example, I believe a box of 10 GW Space Marines costs $35.00.

I think the difference lies in who's looking at them. Someone used to buying prepainted minis like Star Wars, D&D, Mechwarrior will look at BF Evo, see it's almost 2x as much and that it's not painted any better.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:42 pm

I'm finding many players are buying other companies models. My local FLGS has lots of stock sitting on the shelf going nowhere, but they have that problem with ACTA too
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Templar
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Postby Templar » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:09 pm

Well, the reality is, Mongoose has made a great set of rules (not perfect, but then again, what is?)

However, they also released models that, for the price, aren't entirely worth it. heck, buying force recon came out to about 4.40 USD after tax, and that is a bit rediculous for what it is.

I have been to the local toy store as well, and saw equivocal models that were prepainted for roughly half the cost. I am buying mongoose models at this point in hopes to support their game, and to keep models coming, but if they don't catch on to trends in the market, they are going to get stuck with a situation they won't be happy with down the road.

SST evo hype has been built, and that is good, but the models have to warrant the price.
vitalis6969
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Postby vitalis6969 » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:54 pm

Bede wrote:The funny thing is that it is not out of line with the prices charged by many companies for unpainted figures. For example, I believe a box of 10 GW Space Marines costs $35.00.
Yeah, except the box o space marines comes with all kinds of extra sprues, are sculpted on a far better level, and will have a better paint job when done.

-V

[edit] On a further note, if ya look at AT-43 prepaints there is just no comparison. Mongoose needs to get on the ball with their minis if they want this game to go. I love the rules, they are great. The minis on the other hand look like a rabid 6 year old sculpted and painted them.
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Postby MaxSteiner » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:18 pm

Unfortunately though this is Mongoose pulling out all the stops apparently... :roll:

In their defense all the sculptors I've heard discussing their work being turned into prepraints (Mostly for WoTC) have said that you loose loads of the detailing, so maybe the greens looked top dog?

The space marine argument get carted out for whatever criticism you try and lay against Mongoose so I wouldn't worry to much, if its any consolation it doesn't get any truer no matter how many times its repeated.

I still think Mongoose can pull this round though, hobbyists might not be buying them as much as they thought, but everyone was telling them that was going to be the case before the launch, hobbyists have a pretty sound handle on what their twenty quid can buy them these days and 8 men, painted or not is never going to be that tempting.
What they wanna do is try and get distribution through Toys R Us or Game. What Hobbyists see as a bit expensive, a beleaguered parent will see as a cost and time efficient hobby for their children.
Possibly a bad time to be selling a near future war game in the market to be entirely honest, but Mongoose knew that before starting too.

Had the scale been a bit more in line with other peoples products they would have done a hell of alot better.
I know Mongoose has this apprehension that if you produce models in an equivalent scale to everyone else's then people will just use other companies models, but thats happening anyway, and will always happen.
Far better to make models to the industry standard 28mm, that way people will mix and match from your range and the others, and you get cross over from other peoples systems....

Still Matt said that Mongoose were actually having problems supplying demand, so maybe we've got the wrong end of the stick, and the problem is one of getting the product to the customers?
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Postby Xorrandor » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:26 pm

vitalis6969 wrote:Yeah, except the box o space marines comes with all kinds of extra sprues, are sculpted on a far better level, and will have a better paint job when done.
Well, I haven't bought any space marines recently, but I must differ on your assessment of the paint jobs. You clearly haven't seen my space marines. And at least they have helmets, so you won't be exposed to my googly eyes.

Are the paint jobs good enough? Maybe not. Are they better than mine? Absolutely.
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Postby The Old Soldier » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:51 pm

I still feel a cheaper non constructed and painted versions of the models, that could be bought online through MP would be a boost in sales.

Hobby lovers and painters would buy them if they were made availible at the right price. Makes conversions easier also. I'd buy bucketloads of them. Making all kinds of swaps and conversions.

Just send them in a plastic bag unassembled. Saves big cash in packaging, assembly, and painting for MP.
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vitalis6969
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Postby vitalis6969 » Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:19 am

TOS has hit the nail on the head. I am a gamer and a hobbyist. Unassebled and unpainted minis I would most definitely buy. But unless it is the phenomenal Rackham stuff, I'm not spending money on things I have to repaint ANYWAY.

My vehicles have so far come from Corgi, FoV, and models, and my soldiers from Revell. I hate doing this, I want to support the game. But how can I argue with 12.00 US for 96 US soldiers?

Put the minis up non-painted at a fair price and I will buy bags of them. Same with the vehicles. I just scored two Bradley IFVs and one M1A1 Abrams for 30 US. And they are diecast metal Corgi vehicles.

Now don't get me wrong, I slam the hell out of GW for their overpriced vehicles as well. 40 US for a simple childlike skill level 2 model when I can spend the same on an awesome Tamiya kit just kills me. But AT LEAST I have options with the GW vehicle, they all come with extra bits, dress up parts, stowage, etc... And most important, left over parts I can kit-bash with.

Now a friend of mine likes his stuff put together, he prefers metal minis over plastics because plastics have to be assembled. But he still doesn't want to buy a prepaint that he has to paint again. He wants metal minis that he can clean quick, prime and do a fast three color paint job on.

I just showed him Battlefield Evo, he loved the game, but his first question to me was "What figs and vehicles are we gonna use?"

The game is AWESOME, I want to support it. But I beg those at Mongoose to give me something to buy other than the rulebook that I can support it with.

At 37 I just underwent six-way heart bypass surgery, my wife left me two days after my surgery, and I am currently unemployed. Things are tight, too tight to spend the cash that is needed for the Mongoose stuff. Add to that there are NO JOBS in Michigan right now and it gets pretty grim.

I love you Mongoose, you gotta be my favorite gaming company, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE start selling unpainted and unassembled grab-bags. I beg of ye... :)

-V
B5 ACTA, Tanked... Battlefield Evolution, Tanked... Mongoose Traveller, this is your last chance...
docrailgun
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Postby docrailgun » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:52 am

But, what about the people (like me) who can paint, but simply don't have the time to do so? Isn't this game (and the minis) perfect? What about younger gamers who would be laughed out of the game store if they tried to play 40K where they've slapped on some paint to be able to get some figures on the table? Isn't that who this game is designed for?
vitalis6969 wrote:Put the minis up non-painted at a fair price and I will buy bags of them. Same with the vehicles. I just scored two Bradley IFVs and one M1A1 Abrams for 30 US. And they are diecast metal Corgi vehicles.

Now don't get me wrong, I slam the hell out of GW for their overpriced vehicles as well. 40 US for a simple childlike skill level 2 model when I can spend the same on an awesome Tamiya kit just kills me. But AT LEAST I have options with the GW vehicle, they all come with extra bits, dress up parts, stowage, etc... And most important, left over parts I can kit-bash with.

Now a friend of mine likes his stuff put together, he prefers metal minis over plastics because plastics have to be assembled. But he still doesn't want to buy a prepaint that he has to paint again. He wants metal minis that he can clean quick, prime and do a fast three color paint job on.

I just showed him Battlefield Evo, he loved the game, but his first question to me was "What figs and vehicles are we gonna use?"

The game is AWESOME, I want to support it. But I beg those at Mongoose to give me something to buy other than the rulebook that I can support it with.

At 37 I just underwent six-way heart bypass surgery, my wife left me two days after my surgery, and I am currently unemployed. Things are tight, too tight to spend the cash that is needed for the Mongoose stuff. Add to that there are NO JOBS in Michigan right now and it gets pretty grim.

I love you Mongoose, you gotta be my favorite gaming company, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE start selling unpainted and unassembled grab-bags. I beg of ye... :)

-V
cordas
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Postby cordas » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:09 am

I personally love the idea of wargamming where I can just buy the units and play, I can't be bothered with painting and all that malarky.
We play CTA/SFoS (using counters and FA models), Starship Troopers (evo), 40k, Flames of War, BF EVO

RP, B5, Star Wars, and others. If you are local to Newcastle upon Tyne and fancy joining in drop me a message.
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Postby Valen is my name » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:37 am

For me battlefield Evo minis are too expensive so i play with old airfix figures. For those of us on very tight budgets battlefield evo minis aren't much of an option.
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Postby Captain_Nemo » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:51 pm

These are the same issues that I am finding in the St. Louis area, my LGS got in 2 rulebooks and some boxes USMC and EFTF, one of my friends bought into the EFTF, the rulebooks sold but no one could remember to who and the USMC sets are still there 6 weeks later.

The price is turning people off, they don't mind paying 50 USD for 5 Terminators or 32 USD for a Heavy Warjack but a prepainted mini-set just doesn't bring people over.

And again when you can get nice detailed Corgi and Dragon stuff on ebay for almost half things get kind of well discouraging.
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xbowmen
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Postby xbowmen » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:46 pm

To Bede and BigTmac68: I'm interested in getting together with you all sometime in the future for a game. So let's work on it.
Now to the question of BFE success. I'm very supported of BFE because what MP is doing IMHO is taking the right steps to get young people into miniatures. The miniatures hobby, (be it historical or Fantasy) is competing for the home entertainment dollar. And in order to get young people to like miniature gaming, we have to resolve a couple of issues.
1) Preperation. young people do not like repetitous painting especially to historical confirmatively. So MP has provided prepainted mini's at a slighly higher price. (If you bought a 28mm lead figure it would cost $1.00 to 1.50 and to have it painted would be another $1.50 to $2.00. So in the end the cost is any price of $2.50 to 3.50). When you buy a box of MP you get 8 - 10 figures for $30. That's about $3 to 3.50 per figure. So MP Inf figures is a little high for the market price. Besides our hobby has always been expensive and young people will spend the money if they truly like the game. Look what they will spend for GW, Warmachines or video games.
2) The other issue is the speed of the game. Since I live next to the biggest North American Historcal Convention (Historicon), I'm able to observe young people playing historical games, (which is what BFE really is as near future modern game). and if you don't keep them involved they lose interest. (That not exclusive to young people only as I have seen some older gamers at various times lose interest as well.) BFE is a fast playing set of rules compare to other set of rules in the same period. So I have great hopes that BFE would get the young people into playing historical games as the rules may be well suited for them.
The two issue above is important issue as I see Historical miniature gaming getting Grayer in age as far as supporting the hobby. So we need you young whipper snappers to keep the hobby going long after us Old farts have die or no longer physically able to play the game.
As for the price issue, I'm sure for those who prefer to paint can easily have the same type of figures at a cheaper price but I'm with Cordas, I'm don't have time to paint and after some 35 years of painting 25mm and 15mm my eyesight or patience is not as enduring as it use to be.
I do think MP should have market the Advance rule book earlier with the first wave of mini's. MP also need to work with the Distrubuting system here in the States as my LGS still does not have the Adv. rulebook let alone wave 3. MY LGS sold 3/4 of the 1st wave stuff. but only about half of the 2nd wave. This failure to sell BFE may be because of the availability of other products such as Dragon,Forces of Valor, and Corgi at a cheaper cost. I understand why MP is going very slow in not providing a large line of products as to make it easier for the gamer to afford the miniatures and for MP not to get stuck with a large overhead should the BFE fails. But like Capt Nemo has stated, gamers may be looking for cheapier pre painted mini's and who can blame them if they are not financally able to do so. Since I can afford MP prices, I will continue to buy BFE mini's however since Pietia's has produce cards for other factions and vehicles, if I should find a model that I can use for BFE I will buy it. (ex: I have a Iraq T-72 from Forces of Valor. I don't want to wait for Zulfiqar even though I have 2 of Zulifiqar order.)
Also because of the times we live in and the current events in Iraq and Afganstan might be souring the mood to buy these type of miniatures. (who knows?)
I think MP should continue marketing BFE as it has been and in the long run will be successful.
What MP does need to do is to have more posting of rules clarification to help us better understand the rules and be able to judge the quaility of the rules. (Ex: explain what it means by ready for grenades and what kind LOS for FZ and so on. Also to give us their thinking behind those rules)
Whew, I guess I post enough. Sorry for the long post.
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