Night vision rules: your input please

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soulman
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Night vision rules: your input please

Postby soulman » Wed May 30, 2007 10:27 pm

Now that i`m working on my x-com mods, and most will take place at night its time to look at some ideas..

Does not matter at the moment if its for Evo Skirmish or normal Evo...
SO far my ideas..


Games at nightime with no real lighting : All in cover, which is a +2 to target, but not to armour save

Games with poor lighting, say nightime in city streets etc : All are obscured.

SO now to night vision

The way i simple see it is to drop the level by one, so with night vision it be the following

Nighttime no lighting : Now obscured

Nighttime with poor lighting : All fine.

Of course shooting at a target in bright light wearing Nightvision you should be classed as shooting at a target in cover as you are blinded.

NOW...
The question of range, will distance come into it with night vision, too far and you target is too poor to shoot at....?
If so what about..

1st Gen - max range 10"
2nd Gen - max range 20"
3rd Gen - max range 30"

Not sure if i wish to do differnet rules for nigh vison headgear, and night vision gun scopes only, maybe for my detailed Evo skirmish rules..

Until i hear better and more simple then the above, thats what i will try out.

Look forward to your input.
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Hiromoon
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Postby Hiromoon » Wed May 30, 2007 10:41 pm

Interesting concept...
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The Old Soldier
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Postby The Old Soldier » Wed May 30, 2007 11:35 pm

Depends on the level detail you wish to create. Meh. I would just kiss it. All ranges in half at night. Add a extra +2 to target score only. If you have night vision it removes the penality to target score. Done.
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bigtmac68
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Postby bigtmac68 » Thu May 31, 2007 3:44 am

TOS you are the KISS master. should start calling you gene simmons.

I agree with simplification, I think I will use that for house rules for night fighting.
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cordas
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Postby cordas » Thu May 31, 2007 7:54 am

The Old Soldier wrote:Depends on the level detail you wish to create. Meh. I would just kiss it. All ranges in half at night. Add a extra +2 to target score only. If you have night vision it removes the penality to target score. Done.
Nice n simple, thats what we want.... This is where I would my money.
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emperorpenguin
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 31, 2007 10:42 am

wouldn't anyone with FIST/Felin/Land Warrior etc be using night vision though? as would tanks
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cordas
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Postby cordas » Thu May 31, 2007 12:14 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:wouldn't anyone with FIST/Felin/Land Warrior etc be using night vision though? as would tanks
Yup, I would imagine so, but there is still a difference I would imagine to using those during the day and at night..... Hence they would gain the night vision specail rule I am sure.

I would think that tanks and helicopters and armaments that actualy use electronics to aim rather than manual input (aided by night vision) don't suffer the half range penalty.
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emperorpenguin
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 31, 2007 12:31 pm

yes but the tanks use thermal imaging and such to see at night, so do western infantry

IMO only PLA and MEA would be affected really, same as with smoke
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cordas
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Postby cordas » Thu May 31, 2007 12:34 pm

I would still say that infantry with FIST / night vision e.t.c should have their ranges halved, whilst those without the benefits of it have their ranges halved and everything they shoot at has the benefit of cover at all times.
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emperorpenguin
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 31, 2007 12:38 pm

cordas wrote:I would still say that infantry with FIST / night vision e.t.c should have their ranges halved, whilst those without the benefits of it have their ranges halved and everything they shoot at has the benefit of cover at all times.
so what is your rationale for troops with FIST etc being able to see through smoke but not night? :?
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cordas
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Postby cordas » Thu May 31, 2007 12:50 pm

the fact that smoke tends to be a few meters deep, maybe even into the 10s of meters (a few inches in gaming terms) where as I dunno but night tends to extend as far as the eye can see. Having used termal imaging binoculars (a fairly good set) they are definatly good but they are nowhere near as good when compared to what the naked eye can see during daylight, and the greater the range the less good they became.

I have never used military grade stuff so I have no idea how good it is, but I very much doubt that they allow a soldier to see as well as he could in daylight.
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Postby soulman » Thu May 31, 2007 2:50 pm

One of the key tech that the west has is night vision and hear vision as well, in the gulf war, the american tanks attack at night and had double the range of the enemy`s guns...

So i would say half range is good, and sniper rifles with night vision still outshoots the rest.
And also tanks weapons have a high range so again, tanks are better at night hunting too.

Land warrior has night vison and so do special forces, maybe a extra 5 points for ground troops..?

Special forces need all the help they can get also....

What about 10" reaction range : T+1 then 1/2 of max weapon range, T+2
Night vison is up to 10" : fine, upto 1/2 weapon T+1, upto full range at T+2...?

Best to keep it simple for Evo, and i will expand it for my own Evo-skirmish system..

Keep it up guys
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cordas
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Postby cordas » Thu May 31, 2007 3:58 pm

With reaction you could make it so that none night vision troops have a reaction range of D6" and troops with nightvision / fist e.t.c. have a D6 +2" reaction. This would add in a nice bit of bumping around in the dark.

edit I did originaly think D6+4" reaction for troops with fist, but that would give them a HUGE advantage over none NV troops, then changed my mind to +2 but am not sure that might not give enough of an advantage... maybe +3....
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Postby The Old Soldier » Thu May 31, 2007 6:05 pm

cordas wrote:With reaction you could make it so that none night vision troops have a reaction range of D6" and troops with nightvision / fist e.t.c. have a D6 +2" reaction. This would add in a nice bit of bumping around in the dark.

edit I did originaly think D6+4" reaction for troops with fist, but that would give them a HUGE advantage over none NV troops, then changed my mind to +2 but am not sure that might not give enough of an advantage... maybe +3....
I'd like to chime in again. I wouldn't change reaction ranges, keep them the same afterall 10" is close enough for troops to hear them coming or see the flashes of rifles. Like I stated early just keep it simple. The more you try to make something too realistic, the worse the rules get.
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cordas
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Postby cordas » Thu May 31, 2007 7:22 pm

So speaks the voice of wisdom again....
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