What happens after Wave 5?

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
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emperorpenguin
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Postby emperorpenguin » Tue May 29, 2007 4:15 pm

Armchair_Marine wrote:Pictures don't do ACU justice since it's colors look different depending on the light around it. It's supposed to look greener around green surroundings and greyer around urban terrain.
I know, you'd have to see it (or not! :P ) in real life and I very much doubt the US army commissioned a camo which is useless
Besides, urban combat is the main focus in the modern world. I mean do you actually want BFEVO figures to look 20 years outdated with equipment no longer in use by that particular faction?
you mean like TOW armed Lynx? :lol:
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Postby Hiromoon » Tue May 29, 2007 4:17 pm

What? I thought it was a TOW armed Future Lynx, EP.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Tue May 29, 2007 4:20 pm

Hiromoon wrote:What? I thought it was a TOW armed Future Lynx, EP.
that particular debate is over
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Postby Hiromoon » Tue May 29, 2007 4:23 pm

Then might I suggest you choose a different example next time, EP.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Tue May 29, 2007 4:26 pm

Hiromoon wrote:Then might I suggest you choose a different example next time, EP.
nope because it was a perfect example of
I mean do you actually want BFEVO figures to look 20 years outdated with equipment no longer in use by that particular faction?
outdated equipment

I just have no interest in arguing with you over it
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Postby Hiromoon » Tue May 29, 2007 4:28 pm

Actually the better example would be the M16s, since the other is more based on conjecture. But as you said, you don't want to argue with me about it.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Tue May 29, 2007 4:34 pm

why what is with the M16s?
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Postby cordas » Tue May 29, 2007 4:36 pm

Mr Evil wrote:
Hiromoon wrote:I donno. I'm shocked anyone can hide in the digitial stuff, especially in a woodland setting.
maybe is so they can hide in microsoft windows ?
Why would they need to hide in M$ windows... all it does is crash :cry:
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Postby Hiromoon » Tue May 29, 2007 4:38 pm

Easy, the USMC is looking at the SCAR for regular infantry units.

There's also a push, though PEO Soldier rejected it, to change out the recievers of the M16 for the H&K stuff that you see the SAS using in BFEV, the M416. And there's also the M8 too...

The only thing holding these things back is the big thing that BFEV doesn't really seem to worry about, since they're giving the USMC the F-35B, and that's Money.
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Postby Mr Evil » Tue May 29, 2007 5:27 pm

i heard the problem was they wanted to upgrade all guns at once rather than filter weapons throught to units over time, wich ofcourse causes huge logistical costs and problems either way.

personaly i think a gradual fade in of new weapons is a good idea, bfevo rules wise no matter what riffle they use stats would stay the same, but would be an excuse down the road for new toys.

as for ACU its prety much pointless to sue in the uk as fr as i can see, i like the marpat woodland but still the good old british dpm does the job, just stay in the shadows.
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Postby Pietia » Tue May 29, 2007 5:32 pm

emperorpenguin wrote: I know, you'd have to see it (or not! :P ) in real life and I very much doubt the US army commissioned a camo which is useless
Well, it wouldn't be the first time US Army (or any other army) comissioned something useless or at least not working as advertised.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Tue May 29, 2007 6:15 pm

Pietia wrote:
emperorpenguin wrote: I know, you'd have to see it (or not! :P ) in real life and I very much doubt the US army commissioned a camo which is useless
Well, it wouldn't be the first time US Army (or any other army) comissioned something useless or at least not working as advertised.
true but there is a world of difference between say, a few trial assault rifles being found to have reliability problems when scaled up to full production, and a camo pattern
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Postby Pietia » Tue May 29, 2007 6:29 pm

Would you care to explain the difference? I guess that from the point of view of a soldier issued a rifle with "reliability problems" and "not really that well camouflaging camo uniform" there's none...
The problem with ACU is that it tries to be too universal. A chair, which is also a walking stick will neither be a comfortable chair nor handy walking stick. A camo pattern supposed to hide soldier equally well in woods, jungle, desert and city will do the job equally "well" in all those environments (to be more precise - not at all).
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Postby emperorpenguin » Tue May 29, 2007 6:36 pm

Pietia wrote:Would you care to explain the difference? I guess that from the point of view of a soldier issued a rifle with "reliability problems" and "not really that well camouflaging camo uniform" there's none...).
what I mean is the rifle problem only surfaces later through the problems inherent in the difference between mass production and hand made versions.

Any problem with ACU has no such excuse so surely the US army will have tested it in real life conditions? In other words if you are right and it is crap then that shows a shockingly poor US army testing regime.

I'm inclined to trust Armchair on this one, that it looks better in reality
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Postby cordas » Tue May 29, 2007 6:50 pm

emperorpenguin wrote: Any problem with ACU has no such excuse so surely the US army will have tested it in real life conditions? In other words if you are right and it is crap then that shows a shockingly poor US army testing regime.
Or maybe it works really well in one area.... money... cheaper just to have one set of camo, and if there is a nice big kick back tied in with the deal..... well soilders out in the field will do what they always do and improvise.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Tue May 29, 2007 6:53 pm

cordas wrote:Or maybe it works really well in one area.... money... cheaper just to have one set of camo, and if there is a nice big kick back tied in with the deal..... well soilders out in the field will do what they always do and improvise.
I hope you're not right, hate to see soldiers sold short like that :(
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Postby Pietia » Tue May 29, 2007 6:58 pm

The initial problems with M-16 were caused by the shockingly poor testing regime - during the tests the ammo used was filled with gunpowder, which left much less fouling (much more expensive one) than the gunpowder used in ammo used by troops. Sooner or later we may find out, that ACU was tested in the one area it is really suited well for (maybe just next to the company which developed it).
Some other armies are also considering digicamo, but their belief in fractal patterns is not great enough to even consider getting one pattern/color set.
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Postby cordas » Tue May 29, 2007 6:58 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:
cordas wrote:Or maybe it works really well in one area.... money... cheaper just to have one set of camo, and if there is a nice big kick back tied in with the deal..... well soilders out in the field will do what they always do and improvise.
I hope you're not right, hate to see soldiers sold short like that :(
I hope I am wrong as well, but I have little trust in those who make these kind of decisions after hearing the experiences of friends and family who have served in both our forces and the US Army.
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Postby Hiromoon » Tue May 29, 2007 6:59 pm

Right now they're finding ACUs not as durable as the old BDUs, especially the velcro that holds the pockets closed.
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Postby Pietia » Tue May 29, 2007 7:01 pm

cordas wrote: I hope I am wrong as well, but I have little trust in those who make these kind of decisions after hearing the experiences of friends and family who have served in both our forces and the US Army.
If guys making those decisions had to test all that equipment on their own skins in combat conditions, we would soon find out that "the best" is not really even "good enough"...
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