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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:55 am
by brook
Politically correct. Certainly not. I just think that its easy to mock Muslims, or for that matter any religious person. It is just not right.

Approximately 35% of the middle easterners living in the U.S. are Muslim. That is it. On average, Arabs living in the U.S. (citizens and residence) earn a higher annual income than the rest of us.

One analysis said that if you exclude oil revenue, the 270+ million people in the Middle East produce the same gross exports as the country of Denmark. (don't quote me because I read it last year)

If that is not a major disconnect, I don't what is. Except, maybe the U.S. is the beneficiary of the best, brightest, and hardest working people from the Middle East. Maybe we are lucky to have such people.

I like having the MEA in the game. That in and of itself is politically incorrect. They can even be the bad guys. The official rules give these guys IED's. Politically correct...hah. Mongoose is on the cutting edge of incorrectness. Its great.

I personally don't see why this game or its players should insult Muslims, because its not really about being Muslims. The Arabs have produced some great warriors throughout history. The Arabs stopped the Mongols a while back, and seem to I remember a small group of them giving the Israeli Army a bloody nose last year.

For me (and maybe me alone), I play the game because I'm interested in the tactics. The politics and religion in it are fictional and merely fluff.

Almost everyone who picks up military weapon says their fighting for their God and country. Why should the MEA be any different. Besides, their stats are pretty good.

Saying your Muslim should not be akin to coming out of the closet. It is and should be a matter of dignity and pride. If I was at a convention and someone did a mock prayer , I would ask that he be shown the door or I would leave.

I have to say though, during the games I have heard an occassional Allah Akbar or Ma Sha Allah from the MEA player, and I don't consider that to be a problem because it was done in to celebrate an outcome, which is appropriate. And, the phrases are sayings in common usage. D_ _ is used frequently.

I've been called a kafr (non-believer) before. I would not call someone that because in some contexts it is OK and in others it is not. As for calling yourself a Kufur, Kufur is plural. I bet people did look at you strange.

Bryam, That last question about Homeland Security was serious. Is that part of a political science degree or a criminal justice degree? It would seem to be a real all encompassing hybred of a class. Is it theory or history?

Sorry for the long post.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:36 am
by Hiromoon
brook wrote:What is taught in the Homeland Security Class. How to search luggage.
Is there a military history and middle Eastern history taught? What a the qualifications for someone to teach Homeland Security?

La Illah Ila Allah is my favorite saying. For a curse D_ _ works for me.
Well, try this: http://www.wired.com/culture/education/ ... 4/08/64608

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:04 am
by brook
Hiromoon,
I understand it less now. From Arms Control to Counter terrorism. It seems less like a discipline and more like a way to get federal subsidies from the U.S. gov't. It appears that no one really knows what "homeland" security" really is.

"programs will remain fairly wide-ranging until there's a better agreement on what someone working in homeland security is expected to know upon graduation." What? Why teach anything if you don't really know what the student needs to learn. The student might learn absolutely nothing that is important.

I have no doubt that Homeland Security is real and necessary. This looks more like scam to get funding.

Some of these colleges will offer all of these HSC in order to get extra funding, and then not even have an ROTC program. Hmm.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:00 am
by byram
brook, in my CT class we were taught how terrorist cells operate, most of them follow the same motus operandi, we also looked at the Battle of Algers, and how the FLN beat the french paras (this was the main case study we did, we had others but this one was required by all people to do), we each chose an International and domestic terrorist group (with respect to the US), i chose the Tamil Tigers, and the so called "Militias."

as for the searching of baggage (btw that was funny), we didnt learn how to, but we learned the legality of this issue as well as detainment of foreign fighters or terrorists. even in this class people were split on the issue (which was the goal of that lesson, to tell us the issue is undefined even by the US Laws), case studies for this section were Abu Graib (primarily), and a few others i cant remember at this moment.

all in all the class not how to stop terrorism, but how to understand the mind of the terrorist, why they are fighting, how they fight, how we are told to fight them, but have our hands tied.

the class was technically a class on laws, during the semester we witnessed three major changes to the "terrorist laws" as we called them, and we also witnessed the first american to be indicted for treason in 54 years.

lol sorry it was one of my favorite classes :D

edit: also brook, HSC is turning into a major market, so many companies are getting paranoid about the contractors in iraq that they are turning to armored car companies to secure their personnel (just as an example)

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:07 am
by byram
Sanzo84 wrote:Wow... Three pages long and not a blatant insult to Islam. This is a first! You guys are really open minded... or at least politically correct. As a Muslim (I always cringe at saying that), I find it stupid and highly unlikely that some fool would turn up to a tourney and pray... I mean, it's only a game. Sure, Muslim sportspeople pray before a match, but then that's what they do for a living. If I someone do that, I'd report him or take him outside myself! Such behavior shouldn't be tolerated...
lol why shudder at being muslim my friend? believe it or not im catholic, and proud of it :D

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:26 am
by brook
I have no doubt that HLS is big bucks. I did think the baggage comment was cute. (and I couldn't resist). It was a legitimate question, and I would problably take the course if I was in school.

I just didn't know what they taught in a class named HLS. I actually thought a CT class would be different than a HLS class. I spent time in college studying Africa and the Middle East, but that was for a History degree, and the ME studies alone consisted of several classes.

I also had two classes in modern military history, which included the revolutionary movements, but looked at them as a sub-set of the cold war. This was after Vietnam and before the Desert Storm.

The Patriot Act and material support of terrorism laws. That is a class in itself.

When you called it a HLS class, I just wasn't sure what it covered. If you look at the link that Hiromoon published...I mean wow...crop protection to blast structural studies. That is a lot of ground to cover.

In the U.S., the intelligence/counter intelligence groups don't even fall under HLS. The CT fight is being prosecuted by the military and Justice Department. Neither agency is part of HLS.

When I think of HLS I think of border security, physical security, FEMA, waterway security...Oh ya...airport security. All of which are vital. Each is a subject unto itself. But that is different than the class you described. (hey I think I'm showing my age.)

Was the teacher's background in history, military, political science, law or law enforcement?

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:43 pm
by Sanzo84
I said I cringe saying that I'm a Muslim isn't because I'm not proud. Rather it's the opposite. It's just that on other forums, other Muslims who start off with that phrase begin a good sound argument and start to go ballistic afterwards (and believe me, it's never pretty...).

On the issue of the MEA troops, I think it's not a problem at all having Middle Eastern insurgents in the game, although to balance things out, having regular troops and some commandos would be nice.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:59 pm
by cordas
Sanzo84 wrote: On the issue of the MEA troops, I think it's not a problem at all having Middle Eastern insurgents in the game, although to balance things out, having regular troops and some commandos would be nice.
They are coming, the first regular military unit is the Tunguska, and the Zulfauir tank is to follow shortly, and there will be "regular" military infantry.

On the whole religion front I don't, being an Atheist just makes far more sense to me personally, but we all have to find our own paths through life.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:08 pm
by emperorpenguin
cordas wrote:On the whole religion front I don't, being an Atheist just makes far more sense to me personally, but we all have to find our own paths through life.
we should have an Allied Atheist Alliance faction, they could fight against the United Atheist League and United Atheist Alliance! :wink:

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:13 pm
by Sanzo84
emperorpenguin wrote:
cordas wrote:On the whole religion front I don't, being an Atheist just makes far more sense to me personally, but we all have to find our own paths through life.
we should have an Allied Atheist Alliance faction, they could fight against the United Atheist League and United Atheist Alliance! :wink:
Which one would be the Nietzschists? (Is that even a word!?)

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:49 pm
by cordas
emperorpenguin wrote:
cordas wrote:On the whole religion front I don't, being an Atheist just makes far more sense to me personally, but we all have to find our own paths through life.
we should have an Allied Atheist Alliance faction, they could fight against the United Atheist League and United Atheist Alliance! :wink:
Hmmm I would be in the People who hate people Party.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:36 pm
by emperorpenguin
cordas wrote:
emperorpenguin wrote:
cordas wrote:On the whole religion front I don't, being an Atheist just makes far more sense to me personally, but we all have to find our own paths through life.
we should have an Allied Atheist Alliance faction, they could fight against the United Atheist League and United Atheist Alliance! :wink:
Hmmm I would be in the People who hate people Party.
you'd be a sea otter?

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:23 pm
by cordas
emperorpenguin wrote: you'd be a sea otter?
Yup, the one wearing the Bill Hicks T-shirt stood off in a corner by himself :evil:

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:22 pm
by emperorpenguin
cordas wrote:
emperorpenguin wrote: you'd be a sea otter?
Yup, the one wearing the Bill Hicks T-shirt stood off in a corner by himself :evil:
I don't remember seeing that one :P

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:06 pm
by cordas
Thats cos we hate camera's as well as people.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:07 pm
by emperorpenguin
cordas wrote:Thats cos we hate camera's as well as people.
or Matt and Trey forgot to draw you!

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:34 pm
by duryeaa
To the original question:
The described MEA outfit, while potentially offensive depending on the prayer style, would be less outlandish than the hardcore S&M dressed couple at Gencon 2 or 3 years ago. So far as I know they weren't ejected just for being dressed up and mildly in character.

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:29 am
by Drahazar
I would find it a little offensive if they where looking more like terroists that would annoy me. ill neer play MEA cause they look like terriosts. once they get more proffesional looking stuff out for MEA it will look better like saudis army or egypts.

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:46 am
by cordas
duryeaa wrote:To the original question:
The described MEA outfit, while potentially offensive depending on the prayer style, would be less outlandish than the hardcore S&M dressed couple at Gencon 2 or 3 years ago. So far as I know they weren't ejected just for being dressed up and mildly in character.
Dressing in S&M gear isn't actually offensive, its just a question of taste.

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:53 pm
by The Old Soldier
No, It's offensive. :? But, if the operators of the Con allow it, then I'll just turn a blind eye to it. Same with many other outfits that I have seen at a Con. Like the naked gal with the chainmail mini skirt outfit. Or some of the lewd fantasy outfits. They are in poor taste and offensive, but as long as they keep to themselves, I don't have a problem.