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Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
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Paladin
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Postby Paladin » Thu May 24, 2007 2:58 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:
and so the game goes away from
Based on supposition and projection of real world armies in the near future, this game features new technologies that are just around the corner
hmm....
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/supposition
emperorpenguin wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
emperorpenguin wrote:into fantasy
In case you didn't notice it's already fantasy. Or where's the EFTF? Don't see it coming. Don't see MEA around the corner either...And definetly don't see USMC and EU starting to fight each other...
I don't play the Mongoose background, I bought into this game to play Modern day combat with near future forces of 2010-2015
So you have the ability to discard some content but not others...
emperorpenguin wrote:politics can change overnight though but military plans don't
So a political coup or the replacement of key members of committees have no influence on military spending... :roll:
Last edited by Paladin on Thu May 24, 2007 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cordas
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Postby cordas » Thu May 24, 2007 3:05 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:politics can change overnight though but military plans don't
No plan surivives contact with the enemy.... thats ages old military doctrine!!!
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Postby Paladin » Thu May 24, 2007 3:06 pm

Lorcan Nagle wrote:The Cobra is certianly the nicer of the two extant choppers. I hope the Lynx's photos aren't doing it justice because the colour scheme seems a bit flat compared to the previous British units. Is the Cobra coming in Grey and desert camo schemes?
The ghost grey is accurate for the USMC.
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Postby Paladin » Thu May 24, 2007 3:27 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:
cordas wrote:
emperorpenguin wrote:I don't understand why people can't accept that Mongoose made a mistake
because in my expereince it seems MGP ain't very happy about admitting to making mistakes.
Now that I 100% know to be true :wink:
Hmm....

A few points:
1. If that were true and they will never correct mistakes, then this thread is utterly useless and you should give up complaining about it and give up your LSW fixation/crusade.
2. You've already pointed out that FIST was initially given the wrong name and they corrected it. That doesn't fit with your supposition.
3. You've already pointed out that the SAS were initially given wrong guns and they changed to accomodate. That also doesn't fit with your supposition.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 3:46 pm

cordas wrote:. With the SAS weapons its a difficult call as as far as I am aware they tend to use whatever they feel like, and what would suit the mission the best.
yep that's the beauty of the SAS, but they don't use the L85, largely due to weight
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 3:49 pm

and if you were provided with information countering your supposition would you still go ahead?
So you have the ability to discard some content but not others...
politics isn't something you buy in the box, equipment is, straw man
emperorpenguin wrote:politics can change overnight though but military plans don't
So a political coup or the replacement of key members of committees have no influence on military spending... :roll:
key word OVERNIGHT, it takes years to change designs, hence Britain still having a 1970s/80s Cold War styled military..... :roll:
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 3:52 pm

Paladin wrote:A few points:
1. If that were true and they will never correct mistakes, then this thread is utterly useless and you should give up complaining about it and give up your LSW fixation/crusade.
2. You've already pointed out that FIST was initially given the wrong name and they corrected it. That doesn't fit with your supposition.
3. You've already pointed out that the SAS were initially given wrong guns and they changed to accomodate. That also doesn't fit with your supposition.
the last two were fixed before production following a PM from yours truly, I am baffled as to why they ignored the Lynx info

I never said they WON'T correct mistakes, in fact if you read what I said about ACTA I said they DO

What Cordas said and I agreed with was like most companies they won't admit to mistakes.
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Postby Paladin » Thu May 24, 2007 4:01 pm

I'm done.
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Shadow4ce
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Postby Shadow4ce » Thu May 24, 2007 4:38 pm

Gibbs wrote:Ummm FN make the M416s... they're Belgian.
Gibbs ole boy! You have any intel to support this? Because I am quite certain the M416 they were going for is the one made by HK, not FN. :wink:

FN's newest toys are the F-2000 and the SCAR systems the USMC in BF:Evo are packing.

The HK416 can be seen here, here, and of course here at hkpro.com.

Now I'm certainly not on the SAS appropriations committee, but if it is what the American "Unit formally known as Delta Force" is using, I'm thinking it would be a viable option for SAS. 8)

PS Enjoy the links boys, just remember to wipe up the drool off your keyboards when finished. :wink:
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Postby GJD » Thu May 24, 2007 4:57 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:
tneva82 wrote:Anyway still don't understand why you are making such a fuss over something you can just ignore. .
because it is inaccurate

because I told Mongoose this one year ago and they didn't listen

because after all the talk not one piece of proof has been shown to me to say that Future Lynx will be used as a gunship even though some people said it will be but didn't back it up

because if a ship in ACTA gets weapons not seen on screen I take bitching on behalf of Mongoose because I'm a playtester

I don't understand why people can't accept that Mongoose made a mistake
For Bernard Cribbens sake, It's a plastic model!

From my point of view, as somebody who owned three different versions of Twilight 2000 with it's own, unique "projections" (LAV-75? AGS? T-95? M1E1 with the snorkle turret?), this is a minor problem.

Honestly, EP, what are you more ticked at, that the model can be made innacurate by adding an option that it could actually be fielded with, or that Mongoose didn't listen to your request? I have to say it seems like you're just ticked off because you know better than them (which you seem to, your depth of knowledge has been demonstrated) and they aren't listening. You clearly know your onions, my friend, but let it go!

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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 5:05 pm

Shadow4ce wrote:Now I'm certainly not on the SAS appropriations committee, but if it is what the American "Unit formally known as Delta Force" is using, I'm thinking it would be a viable option for SAS. 8):
I've read that the SAS use the Canadian version of the M16, the Diemaco

no idea how similar/different they are...?
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 5:08 pm

GJD wrote:Honestly, EP, what are you more ticked at, that the model can be made innacurate by adding an option that it could actually be fielded with,


again I keep pointing out it can't!
or that Mongoose didn't listen to your request? I have to say it seems like you're just ticked off because you know better than them (which you seem to, your depth of knowledge has been demonstrated) and they aren't listening. You clearly know your onions, my friend, but let it go!

G.
I had let it go until you brought it up again! :lol: Yes I feel ticked off that I corrected an error but was ignored. I also offered to verify things but have not even received a polite "No Thank You", which is rude
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Postby Valen is my name » Thu May 24, 2007 5:10 pm

If you want proof that the Flynx COULD in the future carry missiles look at this:
The Royal Navy Future Lynx retains the Sting Ray torpedoes from Lynx Mk8, and will be fitted with a new stores management system, carrier and weapons launcher. The new stores management system enables the Future Lynx to deploy a new missile or rocket system that will replace the Sea Skua as part of the MoD's Future Air to Surface Guided Weapon (FASGW) programme.
It came from this website: http://www.army-technology.com/projects/future-lynx/

This was one of the first websites i looked at. If the FLynx can carry missiles of some kind, there is a good chance they army one will carry missiles of some kind. They haven't said which missiles because the army ones aren't delivered until 2011, and no-one knows if the TOW system ill still be being used or if it will have been superseeded.

I'm not saying that it will carry missiles, but the Army have said it has the option to, so who knows, maybe one day it will carry them, but as i said earlier, when the first Lynx was being designed did they know which missiles it would carry, no - just like they aren't sure at the minute, i mean the prototype won't even fly until 2009 so thy wn't have decided which missile system will be used, but they have said that one can be used. Yes i know it takes about the sea skua but the army will also be able to fit missiles to it if they so wish.

Do you still want more proof EP?
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 5:14 pm

Valen is my name wrote:Do you still want more proof EP?
I posted that very site myself. There is a difference between fitting Sea Skua and great big TOW tubes onto a Lynx.
TOW does not fit on to wheeled Lynxes, you said so yourself!

I am so fed up of repeating myself :roll:
I'm not saying that it will carry missiles, but the Army have said it has the option to
show me where it says that
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Postby Valen is my name » Thu May 24, 2007 5:17 pm

enables the Future Lynx to deploy a new missile or rocket system
whats to say that a replacement for the TOW couldn't be one of the above?
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 5:24 pm

Valen is my name wrote:
enables the Future Lynx to deploy a new missile or rocket system
whats to say that a replacement for the TOW couldn't be one of the above?
because the model carries TOW and the bit you quote SPECIFICALLY mentions Royal Navy Future Lynx.

How is Future Lynx supposed to pick out targets for its TOW without mast rotors or Gazelle scouts? It would have to expose itself unecessarily. Tiger should have been released first and Lynx given its correct role not something based on out of date practice, misiniterpretation of images and bad research

I don't want to buy made-up units with poor research. I had high hopes for an accurate modern day game.

I'm disappointed, you guys aren't fine and dandy. You enjoy it, I'll find something else to play.
I've exhausted my arguments and my disbelief
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Postby bigtmac68 » Thu May 24, 2007 5:32 pm

did have to reply on the idea that military equipment does not evolve or change quickly.

That is true in peacetime, but the exact opposite is true in wartime. The amazing speed of change that can take place within and armed force during wartime make peacetime speed seem truly glacial in comparison.

Especially when faced with high intensity conflict, such as vietnam and WWII you can see every nation involved in those confilicst making continued and major changes to everything from uniforms to aircraft designs.

Granted current lead time from development to fielding of a completely new weapons system is much longer now than then. Still the Cougar and it's numerous competitors are a fantastic example of how much faster concept to field turnaround is in war than in peacetime.

What happens in war with blistering speed is anything that can be done in the field to improve the existing equipment. Look at how fast the usarmy upgraded tens of thousands of hmvees ( currently on the 4th iteration of the uparmored humvee in less than 4 yearrs ) Look at the BBQ grills surrounding the Stykers. Engine modifications on several helos due to sand damage. The predator going from unmaned glider with a camera to The Terminator in the Sky. And the list literally goes on and on.

Thats why I think everyone is not as upset as you are on the FLynx , because it could so very easily represent a field modification sent out in kit form on very short notice. Why would they do so?

dozens of reasons, all perfecly plausible and legitimate.

just a couple,

1 - relations with us decline, apache supply terminated, tigre production, allready running at max for france and germany will not be able to replace missing apaches for 6-8 months. = interim solution, up arm a dozen or so Lynx transports with surplus Tow missle systems.

2 - EFFT finds itself in high intensity conflict with PLA over petroleum resources in far east, as the rapidly modernizing China's demand skyrockets. Facing serious armored threat and without sufficient airlift capablity to move large numbers of MBT's to theatre, britain finds itself in desperate need of more attack helos = again interim solution strap some tows onsome lynxes and blow the hell outa some t-99's.

The one thing that has allways been constant about war is the need to RAPIDLY ADAPT to the situation. No reason to think that will stop being true in the future.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 5:44 pm

bigtmac68 wrote: did have to reply on the idea that military equipment does not evolve or change quickly.

That is true in peacetime, but the exact opposite is true in wartime.
all very true but....
1 - relations with us decline, apache supply terminated, tigre production, allready running at max for france and germany will not be able to replace missing apaches for 6-8 months. = interim solution, up arm a dozen or so Lynx transports with surplus Tow missle systems.
.......so what happened to the 60+ Apaches we have and we build ourselves just under licence. If hostilities broke out do you think we'd care about them withdrawing licence or suing? We'd still build them.
I don't want "hypothetical helis" I want those 60+ Apaches

Where does hypothesis end and why has it not applied to other units? If we had Abrams with the wrong gun, or US marines missing weapons, I'm sure American customers would be upset. Where are the hypothesis Warriors with TOWs? And if Britain is desperate to knock out Chinese tanks 64 Apaches will do better than 40 Lynxes, never mind why the infantry aren't equipped with Javelins....

As I also said and no one has countered FIST uses American tech and all British command and comms are designed to operate with American equipment.
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Postby tneva82 » Thu May 24, 2007 5:50 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:again I keep pointing out it can't!
Since you seem to be able to fortell the future 100% accuratly why haven't you won yourself couple of billions in lottery then?
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Postby tneva82 » Thu May 24, 2007 5:52 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:TOW does not fit on to wheeled Lynxes, you said so yourself!
Do wheels prevent plugging missile pods into side of copter?
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