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Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
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Postby Lorcan Nagle » Thu May 24, 2007 1:38 pm

EP, you know I'm going to have to field a TOW-mounting lynx against you every time we play now?
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Postby Valen is my name » Thu May 24, 2007 1:38 pm

emperorpenguin wrote: read the page Evil posted. TOW won't fit on a wheeled Lynx, current or future
Which is why most of the army Lynxs have skis instead of wheels, certainly the ones in the desert have skis and missiles. The skis lift the thing up more than wheels do, so the missile racks don't hit the floor!
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 1:45 pm

Chiwie wrote:no, the stuff posted says the current TOW rack will not fit. if there is a need i reckon it wouldn't be too hard to come up with a design to fit TOWs to the helo, if it can carry Hellfires it sure as hell can be converted or modded to carry a TOW.

it also says they gave up trying to do it, especially as the export market wasn't interested and the Army didn't need them
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Postby Mr Evil » Thu May 24, 2007 1:45 pm

im going from memory with the company from over 7-9 years ago. and we talked in aprt numbers that escape me.

westlands know the success of the future lynx is in getting the emthasis back onto the non naval amrket, naval sales are simple, tow or insert missile system name here, is something the amy one will have to be capable of, the future lynx gives then the next decade or so to sort out this problem as military sales are iften greater than navy sales, yes british army whant some but it a small number compared to jobs they need to keep rolling, navy sales are garantee evan if they supply them in pink with green spots, but for battlefield use the FL program gives them the unique opertunity to correct the problem of old, its not imposable to solve and id exspect ro see a different landing design to eventualy apear, i do remeber them talking about going back to skids, as for battle feild use it had advantages, i doubt there do that as the modern way is one modle for all.

making it up ? not relay just relying on my memory from the projects early days and remebering some of the perameters they set for it.

if in 20 years time you see no FL's with an anti tank system built onto them then so be it, but last i heard it ws definatly a plan to incorperate it into the FL's plausable weapon load, as for a TOW system !!! not sure why MGP chose that, makes little sence to me from stuff ive seen.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 1:48 pm

Valen is my name wrote:
emperorpenguin wrote: read the page Evil posted. TOW won't fit on a wheeled Lynx, current or future
Which is why most of the army Lynxs have skis instead of wheels, certainly the ones in the desert have skis and missiles. The skis lift the thing up more than wheels do, so the missile racks don't hit the floor!
true, sort of :wink: the ski versions are older and have been using TOW for donkey's and are the ones going bye-bye

there is no need to design wheeled Lynxes capable of carrying TOW because as I keep saying that won't be their role, but I don't think anyone cares, least of all Mongoose
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 1:49 pm

Lorcan Nagle wrote:EP, you know I'm going to have to field a TOW-mounting lynx against you every time we play now?
that's cruel! :lol:
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 1:52 pm

Mr Evil wrote:westlands know the success of the future lynx is in getting the emthasis back onto the non naval amrket, naval sales are simple, tow or insert missile system name here, is something the amy one will have to be capable of, the future lynx gives then the next decade or so to sort out this problem as military sales are iften greater than navy sales,
again simply incorrect, sales of the non-naval lynx have been very poor. Check your site.
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if in 20 years time you see no FL's with an anti tank system built onto them then so be it, but last i heard it ws definatly a plan to incorperate it into the FL's plausable weapon load, as for a TOW system !!! not sure why MGP chose that, makes little sence to me from stuff ive seen.


again there is 0 evidence for what you say written anywhere
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Postby Valen is my name » Thu May 24, 2007 1:53 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:
Valen is my name wrote:
emperorpenguin wrote: read the page Evil posted. TOW won't fit on a wheeled Lynx, current or future
Which is why most of the army Lynxs have skis instead of wheels, certainly the ones in the desert have skis and missiles. The skis lift the thing up more than wheels do, so the missile racks don't hit the floor!
true, sort of :wink: the ski versions are older and have been using TOW for donkey's and are the ones going bye-bye

there is no need to design wheeled Lynxes capable of carrying TOW because as I keep saying that won't be their role, but I don't think anyone cares, least of all Mongoose
thats the killer point, mongoose have said that the FL has TOW missiles, so thats that. none of us know for sure what the future lynx's will be equipped with, so lets just agree that whilst we may disagree on whether the real FL will have TOWs, the Mongoose game does have FL with TOWs and thats what matters most.
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Postby tneva82 » Thu May 24, 2007 1:56 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:read the page Evil posted. TOW won't fit on a wheeled Lynx, current or future

Hellfires might but those are TOWs on the Mongoose model
So how long you think it's going to take to redesign missile pod module? 10 years? If it's 5 years or less then it's possible it's in the lynx copters in 2015-2020 era.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 1:56 pm

Valen is my name wrote:thats the killer point, mongoose have said that the FL has TOW missiles, so thats that. none of us know for sure what the future lynx's will be equipped with, so lets just agree that whilst we may disagree on whether the real FL will have TOWs, the Mongoose game does have FL with TOWs and thats what matters most.
but Mongoose can be wrong.

Public opposition has forced any number of changes to perceived errors in ACTA (and there's plenty!)

I don't agree with just being spoon-fed things which are wrong/broken whatever, I think any gaming company should correct such things
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Postby cordas » Thu May 24, 2007 2:01 pm

I for one like the idea of the FL having a varriant armed with TOWs. In times of war some of the most drastic changes are made to exisiting kit as the guys in the field find new uses for it. Just look at as a varation on the old US doctrine if there is room to mount an MG then you mount an MG, if there ain't room then chop off anything that ain't too important and mount an MG.

The Brits in 2015 have suddenly found that they have no ground attack helicopters (some idiot went and set fire to all the apaches when he heard that they where fighting yanks as he didn't trust them, no doubt a daily mail reader) so looked around and saw a few FLs on the landing pad and a stack of TOWs beside a hut and a match was made.
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Postby Valen is my name » Thu May 24, 2007 2:05 pm

thats a good point. i wonder if when the lynx was first being designed they thought it would carry AT missiles of some kind? Or any other kind of misiles for that matter.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 2:08 pm

cordas wrote:I for one like the idea of the FL having a varriant armed with TOWs. In times of war some of the most drastic changes are made to exisiting kit as the guys in the field find new uses for it. Just look at as a varation on the old US doctrine if there is room to mount an MG then you mount an MG, if there ain't room then chop off anything that ain't too important and mount an MG..
which goes back to my point of fitting extra weapons onto more kits "just because"

Still waiting on my LSWs (or did Daily Mail readers burn those too? :lol: ), think I should add that to my sig....
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Postby tneva82 » Thu May 24, 2007 2:12 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:which goes back to my point of fitting extra weapons onto more kits "just because"
Well wartime vechiles do receive lots of add-ons...

Anyway still don't understand why you are making such a fuss over something you can just ignore. If missile pods were REQUIRED it would make sense but as it is feels just complaining for sake of complaining.

Mongoose was good enough to make it optional weapon. You aren't forced to use it(or show me law which requires you to use it...). So just don't use it. Problem solved.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 2:16 pm

tneva82 wrote:Anyway still don't understand why you are making such a fuss over something you can just ignore. .
because it is inaccurate

because I told Mongoose this one year ago and they didn't listen

because after all the talk not one piece of proof has been shown to me to say that Future Lynx will be used as a gunship even though some people said it will be but didn't back it up

because if a ship in ACTA gets weapons not seen on screen I take bitching on behalf of Mongoose because I'm a playtester

I don't understand why people can't accept that Mongoose made a mistake
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Postby cordas » Thu May 24, 2007 2:19 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:I don't understand why people can't accept that Mongoose made a mistake
because in my expereince it seems MGP ain't very happy about admitting to making mistakes.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 2:22 pm

cordas wrote:
emperorpenguin wrote:I don't understand why people can't accept that Mongoose made a mistake
because in my expereince it seems MGP ain't very happy about admitting to making mistakes.
Now that I 100% know to be true :wink:

Anyway side issue I won't be using the Lynx without missiles simply because it's so pricy! I've got my Revell Tiger which kicked PLA ass yesterday, that's my air support!
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Postby tneva82 » Thu May 24, 2007 2:34 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:because it is inaccurate
MEA and EFTF concepts are inaccurate as well. You want to get rid of them as well?
because after all the talk not one piece of proof has been shown to me to say that Future Lynx will be used as a gunship even though some people said it will be but didn't back it up
There's no 100% evidence it WON'T be either. Which would be impossible to have because no-one can't see the future.

Why you can't accept their view of future just might be different to yours? Especially since it's fictional future with alternative timeline to begin with...
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Postby emperorpenguin » Thu May 24, 2007 2:38 pm

tneva82 wrote:MEA and EFTF concepts are inaccurate as well. You want to get rid of them as well?
like I said politics is a choice call. I prefer real world and I hoped for a modern British army, but the helis are wrong and the infantry weapons are wrong
There's no 100% evidence it WON'T be either. Which would be impossible to have because no-one can't see the future.
there's also no 100% evidence Warrior won't get a 150mm cannon or TOWs but it doesn't happen....
Why you can't accept their view of future just might be different to yours?
because as I said (ad nauseaum by now!) they also got LSW wrong, SAS weapons wrong, FIST wrong, HAP wrong. Occam's razor says it's an error not a "timeline choice". It is now "retconned" as a timeline choice, which doesn't explain the LSW.....
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Postby cordas » Thu May 24, 2007 2:57 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:
tneva82 wrote:MEA and EFTF concepts are inaccurate as well. You want to get rid of them as well?
like I said politics is a choice call. I prefer real world and I hoped for a modern British army, but the helis are wrong and the infantry weapons are wrong
It all depends on where you draw the line in the sand. How amny weapons systems have gone throu radical changes in the years between developement and deployment, and again after deployment?

As for the LSW I would like to see it in my force, as it would give an extra string to my EFTF bow. With the SAS weapons its a difficult call as as far as I am aware they tend to use whatever they feel like, and what would suit the mission the best.
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