More weapons needed on the new models.

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JayRaider
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More weapons needed on the new models.

Postby JayRaider » Sun May 06, 2007 5:57 pm

One thing i've noticed about the new ship designs is that there missing the iconic cannons and turrets etc of the old ship designs.
I'd like to see more on the new designs.
For example if a Ship has a rear array in its stats, i'd like to see the Ship have a weapons array aft on the model.
This doesn't have to happen in every case, but i'm missing the weapons all over the ships in the current designs.
Know what i mean? :?

PS: We need more Detail generally on these new designs, Mongoose please note! :)
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Postby H » Sun May 06, 2007 6:04 pm

really, apart from the EA and Centauri, we aren't exactly blessed with visible weaponry anyway.
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Postby JayRaider » Sun May 06, 2007 6:07 pm

Thats true.
Damn you Hiffano!! :lol:
Goes back to the drawing board for something to post about :lol:
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Postby emperorpenguin » Sun May 06, 2007 6:08 pm

Hiffano is right, taking the Corumai as an example, just how many weapons are visible on other Brakiri ships?

The EA, Centauri and Drazi are about the only ones with weapons always obvious
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Postby H » Sun May 06, 2007 6:42 pm

the thing is, we are thinking conventionally, turrets and missile pods and suchlike, we have nothing to say that the narn guns don't discharge from hull points for example, given the lack of anything that we as mere Humans might consider a weapon :-)
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Postby Celisasu » Sun May 06, 2007 8:04 pm

If you listen to Centauri propaganda, the Narn use themselves as weapons. Those lasers you see? Actually a Narn in a red suit being fired so fast as to just appear as a red beam of light. And so stubborn that even armor plating gives way to him.
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Postby H » Sun May 06, 2007 8:24 pm

:lol:
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Postby Valen is my name » Mon May 07, 2007 12:02 pm

maybe the hulls are actually lots of narns linked together, whihc is why one shot rips huge holes in the hull
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Postby Spike1382 » Tue May 08, 2007 12:10 am

Valen is my name wrote:maybe the hulls are actually lots of narns linked together, whihc is why one shot rips huge holes in the hull
Nah, Narn are more resiliant than that. I bet they make them out of the bones of Centauri. After they were driven off it was the only raw material the Narn had access to in abundance! G'Kar wanted to get an excess supply so this precious resource could be spared to make other useful items like fluts and not be solely set aside for ship building. Most of the bones being as old as they are have become quite brittle. Hence the low quality of Narn armor. ;)

Hmm, well the Narn Lasers do come from an identifiable place, the two U shaped bits in the center of the front. I seem to remember pulse fire emanating from the radial disk in the center of the ship. Also the "antennae" and side pods on the Sharlin are clearly it's weapon's systems. The Vree War Saucer weapons are obvious. Drakh raiders, some good weapon points there.

Of course the Pak'Ma'Ra don't seem to have ANY weapons at a glance. :? And even some the above aren't noticeable without watching the show. Heh, but they can't all be Novas.
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Postby ShadowScout » Tue May 08, 2007 12:13 am

really, apart from the EA and Centauri, we aren't exactly blessed with visible weaponry anyway.
Let's see:

Visible Weapons:
EA
Centauri
Minbari
Drazi
Dilgar
Vorlons

Half-half:
Vree
Brakiri

Hidden Weapons:
Abbai (mostly)
Narn (mostly)
Shadows

I'd say that indicates a strong disposition towards "Visible Weapons" (besides the fact that they tend to add "coolness factor" to warship miniatures)
Let's hope the Mongoose sculptors will notice some day...

And frankly, I too am rather disappointed with many of the new miniatures - though I will have to wait until I see them in realita for my final judgement.
But from what I saw here... let's review all Mongoose-made minis:

- Victory: AoG quality - very good.
- EA Cronos, Delphi & Apollo: ditto, these match everything the old AoG minis are in terms of quality.
- ShadOmega: Just an Omega with some add-ons, not really worth discussing...
- Orion: a bitch to assemble, and the connecting struts are too weak to hold the ring to the center part, but a competent miniature tinkerer can fix all that with a bit of work and get a solid space station mini...
- Hunter: nice one.
- Civ Liner: faar too big, just like the AoG Raider Carrier. Pity.
- Omelos: name aside that one is just perfect!
- Mankhat: shold show the armament it clains (or claim only what it can show), and have an hangar opening (even if only for launching shuttles)
- Kathrik: crude and mine were rather difficult to assemble due to mold problems. Besides, I really can't see the need for this ship...
- the whole Drakh fleet: badly done, AND missing the "Attack ship / Tender" design seen in "LoC" and "Crusade", as well as the "Tanker" from "ACtA"
- WS Carrier: well, the goofy "engine fins" aside I like it.
- WS Fighter: yeagh! It really should have gooten its own miniature, instead of using FA WS minis... (though that trick worked rather well with the Vorlon transports if I may say so)
- Nemesis: looks like a crude, hand-whittled toy compared to the fine-detailed Warlock...
- Marathon: bad from the non-EA-style engines to the detail-less prow. This ship does not exist in my universe.
- WS Gunship: looks better then I expected, especially once I added a WS "bottom wing piece"
- Adira: too big, too expensive, and I prefer the Octurian anyway.
- Liati: bad looking, and the top/bottom wings like to break off during gameplay due to badly planned sculpting (didn't those guys learn from the way the Vorchan was put together?)
- T'Rakk: nothing special, I converted me one of these from half a T'Loth ages ago...

- new Z'Takk: great (have it, and it's really lovely - I wish the new Basestars in BSG looked like this!).
- TM-Pinnace: well, I'll have to wait till I get them, but they are pretty featureless ion the show, and the size seems roughly right.
- Delta-2: looks good from here.
- new Troligan... well, I will probably buy it for completeness sake, but I don't like the style (not matching the rest of the Minbari)
- Nolo'Tar: oversized in extreme (the Liandra it resembles is smaller then the WhiteStar according to JMS), it is unusable for me as it is - but if mongoose does a small "Liandra" mini, I can use the big one with some conversions as "old Anla'Shok Cruiser"
- Shakara: this one I like very much!
- FireHawk: a bit too much like the normal Drazi ships. I for one can't see this one as believable with the stats it is supposed to have...
- Kabrokta: the "Curse of Size" strikes again! It'd have been great as small "light attack vessel", but grew to cruiser size in miniature, and as such it is out of place
- Hurr GS: from the looks of the thing it should have been something WarBird-sized, but the mini seems more Mishakur-sized... and for that size it has to little detail, and really needs some turrets. Another one I will probably buy only for completeness sake...
- BlueStar: may not match the show exactly, but looks good enough for me at first glance...
- Corumai: wow - that one looks like it can match the Bin'Tak or Octurian for battlefield presence! Good one (and I like it a lot more then the first try on the Brivoki - hell, I think I'll like it better then any try on the Brivoki...)
- Myrmidon: looking a bit strange, but here I really need to see them on my workbench to make up my mind.

Now, back to the "visible weapons" stuff...
I for one still have a good stockpile of AoG "refit packs" containing turrets and fins - and I intend to fix up those minis with some things, thus I don't really mind lack of weapons that much. (and those like me who want to do the same - remember, you can order individual turret and/or fin sprues from the mongoose online store; it may take longer for them to come up with the ordered stuff, but it does work.)

The lack of detail on some new minis is more of a problem for me... I see these miniatures done to a standard that had become obsolete years ago - hell, most of the very first AoG minis were better then the Kathrik or Drakh... makes me wish Mongoose had done a bit better there (or assimilated the AoG miniature-making department when they took the B5 license... but since that didn't happen I can only hope that the sculpting quality will improve in the future)
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Postby JayRaider » Tue May 08, 2007 12:19 am

I'd say that indicates a strong disposition towards "Visible Weapons" (besides the fact that they tend to add "coolness factor" to warship miniatures)
Let's hope the Mongoose sculptors will notice some day...
Agreed! :)
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Postby H » Tue May 08, 2007 9:25 am

and should ship stats more closely resemble weapon mounts that we do see. EG the Marathon model has what appear to be missile pods, yet it has no missiles!
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Postby Ripple » Tue May 08, 2007 7:01 pm

I don't mind the lack of detail on weapons that have never been defined as looking like weapons. ie the grav weapons of the brakiri could just be weird engine configurations right? whack someone with you propulsion field? buelller?

But the Abbai quad arrays are the based on the same big turrets the Dilgar, EA and Centauri used right...just lots of pulse weapons all stapled together? Add in on the lakara we see what a combat laser looks like (assuming those bits up front on the lasers) and you have an issue. Of course I think the Lakara mini is the one that in no way fits the Abbai, all the others have none of the 'mechanical' bits showing, and have spikey and scalloped bits...but long live the snow speeder I guess.

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Postby ShadowScout » Thu May 10, 2007 10:49 pm

and should ship stats more closely resemble weapon mounts that we do see
Sigh.
Oh, those were the good old days, when I had B5W to play and every gun had its individual icon on the SCS, and on many ships the SCS and miniature matched (and on those where that was not the case I could make them match with a bit of help from my bits box - adding turrets and gun barrels is not too difficult, in most cases)
But the Abbai quad arrays are the based on the same big turrets the Dilgar, EA and Centauri used right...
Well, I always assumed such a "peaceful" race like the Abbai would prefer not to have their ships looking soo agressive with all those gun turrets, and thus have all their weapons on retractable mounts (much like B5 - just watch the show...)
Of course I think the Lakara mini is the one that in no way fits the Abbai, all the others have none of the 'mechanical' bits showing, and have spikey and scalloped bits...
Actually I dropped that one from my Abbai fleet back in the days of B5W, because it was looking soo different compared to the other Abbai ships - like they contracted Narn or EA design teams to do it or something - and used the Aldrith (Bimith hull with a bit fewer Quad Arrays and defence systems, but several lasers) instead.

Unfortunately this is a bit more difficult in CtA, where the ship (or at least its stats) are a good deal more important to the abbai fleet... Oh, well...
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Postby Ripple » Sat May 12, 2007 2:22 am

Yeah, I did the same back in the B5W days. The Aldrith really fit the bill for fleet ascetics rather nicely.

Retractable weapons are fine I suppose, just give me a few obvious doors or something then, at least for the giant laser....I mean its a giant laser for gods sake...

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Postby B5Temple » Sat May 12, 2007 5:39 am

I definitely want to see more turrets and gunports on my ships. How kick-ass is it to watch the T.V. show and see those turrets fire? That was one of the HUGE cool factors of B5 (and honestly a weak point in Trek).

I want to see some guns! :D
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Postby ShadowScout » Sun May 13, 2007 10:54 am

Exactly.

And that's why I like to convert my gun- or turret-less ships with extra guns/turrets. But of course I'd prefer if Mongoose made a bit more in this regard.

Though of course you can also have too much turret... as in case of the Nova, though there it's more a case of "too big turret". BtW, mine looks absolutely great with Warlock turrets!
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Postby Drahazar » Sun May 13, 2007 1:05 pm

The new troligan sucks i hate the look of the model its ugly they could make the ship an awsome ship in 2nd and ill never buy the model no matter how good the ship is.
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Postby Triggy » Sun May 13, 2007 7:34 pm

Strange, aside from looking like Nemo, it's one ship many people actually like as it fits in with the rest of the Minbari range.
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Postby Celisasu » Sun May 13, 2007 7:39 pm

Hmm....what would a turret that fires Narn out of it look like?

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