Are Drazi a comedy race in ACTA?

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katadder
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Postby katadder » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:50 pm

i play ISA, centauri, narn, minbari, abbai. will possibly be getting EA, definately evolving my abbai to a mixed league.
think that covers most races. the onlys ones i dont know much about are dilgar, havent used them much in 1e, but have playtested them a little and do like where they are going.
i am about as unbiased as i can be in playtesting as i play most the big races with a view to using the others at some point in the future. altho do my best to stop EA space marining :) (not that it always works).
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Postby Ripple » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:52 pm

Stayed off this topic the other day...too snippy even for me...

The Drazi as they are now play horribly if you try for their supposed forte which is the 'slashing' attack mentioned above. Drazi simply do not do enough damage right now with the skirmish hulls to finish off a toaster in one pass. The issue is the forced closing speed and inability to use the majority of special orders because of the absolute need to turn every turn. You in affect become on of the least manueverable races in the game due to lack of ability to use special orders and attack. Oh, and the time it takes to turn around in a 'maneuverable' ship is crazy...three turns usually to track a target again, assuming you can get in range. A third 45 turning chart would help here with some ships, and not a special order that only works a third of the time.

Second issue you have is you patrol choice, and most of your support choices are incredibly fragile. Your battle and some skirmish choices are tough to hurt, but rarely put out the firepower of their rivals in other fleets due to missing firing opportunities due to boresight restrictions and initiative sinks on the enemy side, or not having side guns which allow most ships to out gun you once the furball starts. With the maneuver restrictions for getting boresights you also rarely get to concentrate on a ship until its dead, but tend to damage everything just enough to not really hurt it on the first pass. (Solarhawk being an exception here...but it rarely gets to fire twice...and the fragile thing)

The fact that Matt commented on loving the Drazi and their stupidity on the Fireraptor put me in mind of the 40K orcs. A comedy race given goofy failings for no reason other than someone wants to laugh at them. A slow ship with no side or rear fire weapons at war level? When all its escorts MUST leave it behind or not shoot most of the game? The ship in no way fits in with the fleet concepts of speed and durability on its good ships and incredible firepower but fragile on its bad ones.

Glad to hear the Drazi are getting looked at in 2ed though...they really need just a bit of something. If there are more changes like we're hearing CAF going through that alone may fix them.
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Postby katadder » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:55 pm

for those of you who use fast ships (including drazi) the speed kills thing has been looked at (dunno if you remember my manovrability stat post). we have come up with something that means the drazi are not endlessly circling the battlefield and i think drazi players will like it.
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Postby Myrm » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:57 pm

katadder wrote:for those of you who use fast ships (including drazi) the speed kills thing has been looked at (dunno if you remember my manovrability stat post). we have come up with something that means the drazi are not endlessly circling the battlefield and i think drazi players will like it.
Tholian web technology for the Drazi equivalent of fishing with dynamite????

;)
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Postby emperorpenguin » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:23 pm

Myrm wrote:Tholian web technology for the Drazi ;)
wrong race....
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Postby emperorpenguin » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:25 pm

hiffano wrote:cheers greg, do you know of the others? Do you think it matters?
I play Vorlons and EA as my other mainstays

It's not a case of playtester x thinks up new toys for chosen race. We are trying to better reflect the style and character of each race
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Postby Triggy » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:36 pm

I'm similar to Katadder and PaulyD in that I don't have any real affiliation to a specific race and own/play a good number of them (EA Early, EA Dawn, Minbari, Centauri, ISA, Shadows, Abbai, Pak'ma'ra and Drakh at last count). We're all coming up with ideas and all want every race to be balanced because otherwise what would be the point of playtesting?
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Wulf Corbett
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Postby Wulf Corbett » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:40 pm

hiffano wrote:so then, Don't take this wrong Wulf, i'm just thinking aloud so to speak

Drazi get advantages, player and tester Wulf
The Drazi have not yet been playtested, they may be in the next batch. None of the Drazi ships have been substantially (and often not even slightly) been changed. The rules themselves are under an overhaul, and some of the detail changes are to the Drazi advantage. Many other races, and almost always at least a couple of ships of every race, also benefit from the same changes.

On the other hand, a couple of changes are distinctly to the Drazi DISadvantage, or reduce advantages they had before. Overall, I believe they play more in keeping to their reputed strengths than before.

Wulf
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Postby Da Boss » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:50 pm

Ripple wrote:The fact that Matt commented on loving the Drazi and their stupidity on the Fireraptor put me in mind of the 40K orcs. A comedy race given goofy failings for no reason other than someone wants to laugh at them. .
Your laughing at Da Boyz - not a good move - Character, thats what they have Character!!!

I love the odd Orky rules - and they were quite hard in Battlefleet Gothic - now perhaps you need Drazi ramming ships like da Boyz
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Postby emperorpenguin » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:51 pm

Da Boss wrote:I love the odd Orky rules - and they were quite hard in Battlefleet Gothic - now perhaps you need Drazi ramming ships like da Boyz
I was never able to win with Orks in BFG, I hated them!
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Postby Davesaint » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:00 pm

Wulf Corbett wrote:
hiffano wrote:so then, Don't take this wrong Wulf, i'm just thinking aloud so to speak

Drazi get advantages, player and tester Wulf
The Drazi have not yet been playtested, they may be in the next batch. None of the Drazi ships have been substantially (and often not even slightly) been changed. The rules themselves are under an overhaul, and some of the detail changes are to the Drazi advantage. Many other races, and almost always at least a couple of ships of every race, also benefit from the same changes.

On the other hand, a couple of changes are distinctly to the Drazi DISadvantage, or reduce advantages they had before. Overall, I believe they play more in keeping to their reputed strengths than before.

Wulf
Other than Hull 6 skirmish level ships and the +1/+2 initiative can you explain your feelings on what the advantages are to the Drazi? In many cases they are too fast for their own good. Having to move 6" before they can turn and line up a borsight is not really an advantate. They have 2/45's which is not nearly as big of an advantage given their speed. Frankly for a boresighted armed ship the most efficient turing/move rate is 8" and 2/45's

Dave
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Postby Wulf Corbett » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:15 pm

Davesaint wrote:Other than Hull 6 skirmish level ships and the +1/+2 initiative can you explain your feelings on what the advantages are to the Drazi?
No, I can't, because the changes to the rules that advantage them have not yet been revealed by Matt - and until they are, I won't be saying. There will be changes that will address some of the issues with Drazi, as there will with every race.

Wulf
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Postby Da Boss » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:23 pm

Da Boyz worked well both for and aginst my fleets - hard to kill and if they got close enough ships died - on both sides - which is what da Boyz like.

Plus I loved Deff Squadron -

oh yeah Drazi - if ACTA needs a ramming ship - perhaps they are the peope to do it!? but would it be purple of green
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Postby marsa10 » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:24 pm

Other than Hull 6 skirmish level ships and the +1/+2 initiative can you explain your feelings on what the advantages are to the Drazi? In many cases they are too fast for their own good. Having to move 6" before they can turn and line up a borsight is not really an advantate. They have 2/45's which is not nearly as big of an advantage given their speed. Frankly for a boresighted armed ship the most efficient turing/move rate is 8" and 2/45's

Dave
Drazi have beams on all of their ships making them good against interceptors.

Drazi have two turns on their ships.

Drazi can deploy an 8AD fighter in the middle of an opposing formation.
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Postby Davesaint » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:29 pm

marsa10 wrote:
Other than Hull 6 skirmish level ships and the +1/+2 initiative can you explain your feelings on what the advantages are to the Drazi? In many cases they are too fast for their own good. Having to move 6" before they can turn and line up a borsight is not really an advantate. They have 2/45's which is not nearly as big of an advantage given their speed. Frankly for a boresighted armed ship the most efficient turing/move rate is 8" and 2/45's

Dave
Drazi have beams on all of their ships making them good against interceptors.

Drazi have two turns on their ships.

Drazi can deploy an 8AD fighter in the middle of an opposing formation.
[/quote]


They have single damage boresight beams. Their secondary weapons are also boresight, so they tend not to get a large number of shots.

Yes, they have 2 turns on their ships, but the ships tend to move too fast to take advantage of that when the battle gets up close

Sure they have an 8ad fighter that is -1 in a dogfight. if you have your fighters on close support duty they will intercept that Sky Serpent before he can fire.

Dave
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Postby emperorpenguin » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:42 pm

Davesaint wrote:Yes, they have 2 turns on their ships, but the ships tend to move too fast to take advantage of that when the battle gets up close

Dave
Well Matt left a clue in the "Progress on 2nd ed" thread when he said
Special Traits are much the same, though a few new ones have been added. Interceptors are better explained with examples (for new players), while new ones include Agile, Lumbering, Escort, Shields, and (gulp) Quad Damage
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Postby Burger » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:22 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:(gulp) Quad Damage
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Postby Davesaint » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:30 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:
Davesaint wrote:Yes, they have 2 turns on their ships, but the ships tend to move too fast to take advantage of that when the battle gets up close

Dave
Well Matt left a clue in the "Progress on 2nd ed" thread when he said
Special Traits are much the same, though a few new ones have been added. Interceptors are better explained with examples (for new players), while new ones include Agile, Lumbering, Escort, Shields, and (gulp) Quad Damage
Oh joy Quad Damage. Now ships blow up even faster. That's a huge mistake.

EP, I guess I am a little bit Skeptical regarding the "fixes" that are being made for 2nd Edition. I heard the same thing about armageddon about 1 year ago. The line "Don't worry it will all be fixed in Armageddon" has now been replaced by "Don't worry it will all be fixed in 2nd Edition."

Frankly speaking we don't need another damage multiplier on a weapon. One of the things that breaks the ciritial table is damage multiplier weapons.


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Postby Burger » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:59 pm

Davesaint wrote:EP, I guess I am a little bit Skeptical regarding the "fixes" that are being made for 2nd Edition. I heard the same thing about armageddon about 1 year ago. The line "Don't worry it will all be fixed in Armageddon" has now been replaced by "Don't worry it will all be fixed in 2nd Edition."
You noticed that too, eh ;)
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Postby emperorpenguin » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:00 pm

Davesaint wrote:EP, I guess I am a little bit Skeptical regarding the "fixes" that are being made for 2nd Edition. I heard the same thing about armageddon about 1 year ago. The line "Don't worry it will all be fixed in Armageddon" has now been replaced by "Don't worry it will all be fixed in 2nd Edition."
Dave
Well concerns about damage aside you were talking about Drazi ships being too fast to turn effectively, that is no longer an issue.
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