M2 Bradley stats

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
User avatar
Hiromoon
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7098
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 3:02 am
Location: TFCT Michael Fleming Folland
Contact:

Postby Hiromoon » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:24 pm

Shh, I was using stuff from the Future Lynx entry.
ImageImage
Thanks Veon and ScipioAmericanus!
www.zupandevelopment.com
shmitty
Stoat
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 9:47 pm
Location: Denial

Postby shmitty » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:32 pm

I must have missed it in the discussion, but why was the Bradleys 25mm given different stats from the WZ-551?

I believe the Bradley does fire DU rounds now, so I can't see why it would be less effective against vehicles that the PLA IFV.


EDIT: BTW, great job on the Card!
This Space for Rent
User avatar
rvrratt
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 321
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 3:09 pm
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida USA

Postby rvrratt » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:45 pm

Hiromoon wrote:Not entirely done, but here's what I got done so far.

Image
Awesome! Appreciate your contributions Hiro.
US Army River Rat (Amphibious Assault) Veteran
Image
The Old Soldier
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2110
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 3:02 am
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio. Where pigs fly but turkeys don't

Postby The Old Soldier » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:59 pm

^ Very cool indeed, Hiro! 8)
"On the Bounce"
User avatar
Shadow4ce
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:15 pm

Postby Shadow4ce » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:54 pm

*Salute*
- Shadow4ce
I have seen death, and she is afraid! Image
Mr Evil
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 6993
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:28 am
Location: To Close to Wales for comfort
Contact:

Postby Mr Evil » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:58 pm

we just need some rules for us army infantry now
<iframe src="http://gamercard.xbox.com/cygnarsghost.card" scrolling="no" frameBorder="0" height="140" width="204"></iframe>
Image

http://splargoth.blogspot.com/
User avatar
Shadow4ce
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:15 pm

Postby Shadow4ce » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:27 pm

Mr Evil wrote:we just need some rules for us army infantry now
Why? :twisted: :lol: 8)

J/K, hehe.
- Shadow4ce
I have seen death, and she is afraid! Image
User avatar
Gibbs
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 474
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Postby Gibbs » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:24 pm

Hiromoon wrote:*coughs* I know....I gotta resize some stuff and tuck an MG rule in there.
You did say that it needed some tweaking...

Nevertheless it is still awesome. Great work Hiromoon!

Jellicoe wrote:Good stuff. You really want to go for 7 rather than 2 TOWs. Reloading in the heat of battle might be a challenge :wink:
From what I saw of those videos that Hiromoon posted, those additional five TOWs took up infantry space in the back of the Bradley. All I can say is that realistically, 8 men and 5 TOWs in the back of a Bradley IFV makes for an uncomfortable ride.

Actually... 8 men and 5 TOWs sounds like a good title for a new comedy: You'll never know what these kooky characters will get up to in their confined quarters...coming up next on Fox. :wink:

I realise that you were using the Future Lynx entry but my question is just how realistic are the stats for vehicles?

Don't get me wrong. As a USMC player I am more than happy to have an additional five TOWS for those pesky PLA but could the bradley really take 8 men and five TOWS? From what I've read they can take 6 men and 5 TOWs...not sure about the rest although it does make sense to take the additional two because that allows it to carry a basic USMC infantry squad.

Thanks once again for the work you did Hiromoon and Jellicoe too.
Last edited by Gibbs on Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Fire can be our servant, whether it's toasting S'mores or raining down on Charlie." Principal Skinner
"You're Type 99 looked lonely so I painted it for you, now he's with Jesus...
and all the other Type 99s."
User avatar
Paladin
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1748
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: Murray, KY
Contact:

Postby Paladin » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:33 am

What happened to no movement in the round it uses the TOW?
The kill is too high. Should be 10, 11 tops.
5 guys in the back is probably plenty. Will let you have a full fire team.
Image
User avatar
Gibbs
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 474
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Postby Gibbs » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:06 am

Why not say that the Bradley has to take a ready action before it can fire the TOW instead?

That could represent the crew loading the TOW launcher. Although there are already two in it...

Also, seeing as it explicitly states that there are 7 TOWs, does that mean it only can take 7 shots? (I do realise that trying a game may not last 7 turns).
Paladin wrote:The kill is too high. Should be 10, 11 tops.
That maybe true Paladin but the Warrior also has insane armour; it has a kill score of 13 and is only 150pts! Both the Bradley and Warrior cannot be instantly killed by a type 99 while in cover. :shock:
And good luck trying to use and abrams against a warrior in cover.
"Fire can be our servant, whether it's toasting S'mores or raining down on Charlie." Principal Skinner
"You're Type 99 looked lonely so I painted it for you, now he's with Jesus...
and all the other Type 99s."
User avatar
Hiromoon
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7098
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 3:02 am
Location: TFCT Michael Fleming Folland
Contact:

Postby Hiromoon » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:16 am

The Kill rating fits with the current composition of the aror of the M2 Bradley.

I'll check with some of the Cavalry guys about the TOW thing. I'm pretty sure it can fire on the move...especially if they're using the new TOW.
ImageImage
Thanks Veon and ScipioAmericanus!
www.zupandevelopment.com
User avatar
Gibbs
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 474
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Postby Gibbs » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:31 am

Hiromoon wrote:The Kill rating fits with the current composition of the aror of the M2 Bradley.
I've got no problem with the kill rating and the armour composition. I'm more than happy to have a Bradley hunkered down nice and safe against those nasty type 99s.
Hiromoon wrote:I'll check with some of the Cavalry guys about the TOW thing. I'm pretty sure it can fire on the move...especially if they're using the new TOW.
Thanks for that Hiromoon. From what I've seen, the TOW is able to fire on the move, it's just the fact that it needs to be reloaded that is posing a problem...from my understanding anyway.

Arguably, with a command squad, you would be able to take a ready action (load TOW) a move action and then a shoot action or, at the end of your previous turn, take a ready action and then make a move and shoot the next turn. :?:

Just a thought.

Once again Hiromoon top notch work. I really like the cards you've produced.
"Fire can be our servant, whether it's toasting S'mores or raining down on Charlie." Principal Skinner
"You're Type 99 looked lonely so I painted it for you, now he's with Jesus...
and all the other Type 99s."
User avatar
Hiromoon
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7098
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 3:02 am
Location: TFCT Michael Fleming Folland
Contact:

Postby Hiromoon » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:35 am

Trick is finding the one that talked about being OPFOR with Bradleys. Apparently they're scary bastards, being able to hide themselves and hit when people are least expecting it.
ImageImage
Thanks Veon and ScipioAmericanus!
www.zupandevelopment.com
User avatar
Gibbs
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 474
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Postby Gibbs » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:18 am

Hiromoon wrote:Trick is finding the one that talked about being OPFOR with Bradleys.
The Bradleys or the Cav? :wink:
Hiromoon wrote:Apparently they're scary bastards, being able to hide themselves and hit when people are least expecting it.
I can see why the Bradleys are feared...being smaller than a tank they can fit themselves into some pretty tight places where a tanker wouldn't be looking for an armoured target with tank busting abilities. The only major draw back is the fact that you have to keep LOS on target as long as TOW is in the air...or are we talking about a fire and forget TOW which has been developped?
"Fire can be our servant, whether it's toasting S'mores or raining down on Charlie." Principal Skinner
"You're Type 99 looked lonely so I painted it for you, now he's with Jesus...
and all the other Type 99s."
Pietia
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 237
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:29 pm
Location: Poland

Postby Pietia » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:33 am

Hm... the Bradley is not really smaller - it is a very large vehicle (3 meters high, 3.6 meters wide - the Abrams is 2.4 meters high and 3.6 meters wide, so from the front Bradley presents a much larger target. It is 1.4 meters shorter, but that's all...). Bradley is bigger than T-xx series tanks.

Hiromoon - did you ask the Cav guys how long it does take to reload the TOW launcher and how easy is it to do under fire? In the case of most IFVs equipped with ATGM launchers you have to leave the vehicle in order to do so, so reloading is really possible after the combat, not during it. I'm not sure if that's also true in the case of Bradley, but I strongly suspect so... If an Abrams may fire only once per turn with its main gun (easy to reload, there was a topic on this somewhere on this board), than I guess the Bradley should have the two shots with its ready missiles and no more...

As for armor - according to the information available, the A2 version is protected against 30mm AP (I guess that its NATO 30mm - not russian 30mm which is comparable to most NATO 25mm rounds, but probably not GAU-8 30mm) and older RPGs... Should its armor give it Kill score equal to that of the Abrams (and Armour only 1 point lower)?
User avatar
dsfrankevo
Mongoose
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:17 pm
Location: Cinci OH area, Erlanger KY

Postby dsfrankevo » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:50 am

Hiromoon wrote:The Kill rating fits with the current composition of the aror of the M2 Bradley.

I'll check with some of the Cavalry guys about the TOW thing. I'm pretty sure it can fire on the move...especially if they're using the new TOW.
Having been a Mech Infantryman I can shed some light ....

- the M2 carries a dismount team of 6 troops and the basic TOW load is 7 - 2 missiles in the launcher and 5 in the racks inside the IFV

- the M3 Cav version has a 2 man dismount team and a basic TOW load of 10 - 2 in the launcher and 8 inside - truth be told, the additional TOW rack space is often used for other gear

BEFORE the TOW can fire the launcher must be erected - it rotates 90 degrees from the stowed/travel position to the "UP" firing position - the bradley doesn't move with the launcher in the "up" position -

Once the launcher fires the vehicle must stay stationary while the gunner "tracks" the target - keeping the crosshairs on the target - as the missile flies down range - flight time to the max range of 3750 meters is 20 seconds - believe me - this seems like FOREVER while you are watching and waiting for your missile to impact & hoping not to take return fire before impact

The second missile can be fired shortly after the first impacts - once the 2d TOW in the launcher is fired - the launcher must be dropped and reloaded from inside - this takes lots of time in a combat situation

For the Bradley to move again (without damaging the TOW launcher) the launcher must be dropped to the travel position

In game terms - I think it is absolutely necessary to take a ready action before firing - the argument can be made that a ready (or gun - fire) action must be taken before the Bradley can move again - I can also say at least 1 ready action would needed to reload a single missile in the launcher - after dropped to the travel position - this is pretty near impossible to do on the move

ATGMs are great stand off vehicle killers - but they are not "Offensive" weapon systems - these limitations are pretty much the same for all 1st and 2d generation ATGM systems

BTW the "Fire & Forget" TOW variant was abandoned in early testing in 2002 - no current plans to revive the project.
"You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity. Farewell!"
Buzz Lightyear

Image
User avatar
dsfrankevo
Mongoose
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:17 pm
Location: Cinci OH area, Erlanger KY

Postby dsfrankevo » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:53 am

PilGrim wrote:Something neither the Warrior or Bradley does!
The manufacturer 'says' the Bradley can float - I served with a troop that had the distinction of sinking 2 bradleys in Germany - or was it the same bradley twice :? samey same in the end - needless to say Amphib river crossing ops with the M2 are a dicey proposition
"You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity. Farewell!"
Buzz Lightyear

Image
User avatar
Shadow4ce
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:15 pm

Postby Shadow4ce » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:35 am

dsfrankevo wrote:
PilGrim wrote:Something neither the Warrior or Bradley does!
The manufacturer 'says' the Bradley can float - I served with a troop that had the distinction of sinking 2 bradleys in Germany - or was it the same bradley twice :? samey same in the end - needless to say Amphib river crossing ops with the M2 are a dicey proposition
The manufacture meant the one MGP will build can float. :lol:
- Shadow4ce
I have seen death, and she is afraid! Image
User avatar
Shadow4ce
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:15 pm

Postby Shadow4ce » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:38 am

dsfrankevo wrote: Having been a Mech Infantryman I can shed some light ....
All which followed was great information dsfrank, but I still prefer to change tires over treads. :wink:

Semper fi!
- Shadow4ce
I have seen death, and she is afraid! Image
User avatar
Gibbs
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 474
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Postby Gibbs » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:59 am

Pietia wrote:Hm... the Bradley is not really smaller - it is a very large vehicle (3 meters high, 3.6 meters wide - the Abrams is 2.4 meters high and 3.6 meters wide, so from the front Bradley presents a much larger target. It is 1.4 meters shorter, but that's all...). Bradley is bigger than T-xx series tanks.
Yeah, sorry wasn't paying attention to the stats I had. I assumed the smaller ones were the Bradleys :oops:.


Thanks for pointing that out Pietia, always pays to double check.

And thanks Dsfrank for that information too. Seems like the ready action is a must.
"Fire can be our servant, whether it's toasting S'mores or raining down on Charlie." Principal Skinner
"You're Type 99 looked lonely so I painted it for you, now he's with Jesus...
and all the other Type 99s."

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 57 guests