2e request - Explorer should have Scout

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2e request - Explorer should have Scout

Postby animus » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:31 pm

Hey guys - in your fixes for 2e might as well give the EA explorer Scout ability. I mean, it's what it is. Also it would give a better reason for generals to use it in combat - "draft that explorer, we need a scout!"
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Postby LordClinto » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:32 pm

Second!

It makes sense for the explorer to have the scout trait. You probably wouldn't take both an explorer & an oracle or delphi in the same fleet.
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Postby prelude_to_war » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:53 pm

Oh boy, classic can of worms now opened...I third the idea that the Explorer should have the Scout trait. However this thread will eventually devolve into:

'Exploration does not necessitate military-grade sensors'

VS.

'Exploration necessitates better than military-grade sensors'

Or some such...regardless, it's 3-0 in favor of!!!
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Postby animus » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:01 pm

Regardless of the quality of sensors, giving the Explorer Scout capability makes it usable in a military/conflict game. It should have unlimited range sensors in the early era's but be otherwise limited. Makes sense; makes a good ship for the game.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:02 pm

you guys are too late :wink:
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Postby animus » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:05 pm

Kewl 8)
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Postby Obsidian » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:05 pm

Yep, and I'm going to be the first No vote. Just becasue a ship has super advanced scanning and sensor technology does not mean it has the technology to transmit that data to another ship's targetting computers in the middle of a battle. I'm sure they could get the data there eventually, just not neccessarily in time for it to make any difference.

One thing that would make sense though is if having an explorer counted as a scout for the purposes of deployment and first turn initiative. After that though it doesn't provide any benefit.

EDIT
you guys are too late


Heh. Well never mind then. Objection withdrawn ;-)
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Postby animus » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:21 pm

Make a "military" grade explorer then - let's use the model and a stat line. Obsidian's arguement says it should never be in a war zone, but it's in my fleet book....
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Postby katadder » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:25 am

yep EA now have the toughest jack of all trades scout in the game :)
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Postby Burger » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:15 pm

I'm with Obsidian. The Explorer is really not a combat ship, it is an exploration and jump gate construction platform. It never once in the series displayed any ability to perform fire redirection or enhanced stealth penetration.

It shouldn't be the kind of ship you see in a normal fleet, the way to enforce this is to make it underpowered (not useless, but a worse choice than others). It should be used for specific scenarios only.
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Postby H » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:19 pm

Can we also look at the unlimited range scout ability. It's another example of for some reason EA tech being better than Minbari and Drakh, let alone Shadows. and it IS quite a big deal.
Personally, i don't think the explorer should get scout, but if it does it does, heck at least it's not on a warlock or something! is it?!
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Postby Alexb83 » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:26 pm

The unlimited range scout thing definately needs looking at - either removing it entirely or giving it out to more fluff-wise deserving ships like Shadow/Vorlon ships, or Drakh and Minbari.

But as for the explorer. It's not a combat ship much less a dedicated electronic warfare platform - it's a honking great jumpgate building platform and deep range exploration vessel, which is reflected in its current statline - a very big ship which nonetheless wasn't built for combat (hence low hull - which nicely reflects its very barebones construction).

Going along these lines, the Sharlin encountered by the Prometheus in In the Beggining had sensors strong enough to disrupt their jump drives. Can't this be argued as far better than typical EA sensors? Heck, you could even stat it as a weapon to disrupt EA jump point traits :)
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Postby Wulf Corbett » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:27 pm

Burger wrote:It shouldn't be the kind of ship you see in a normal fleet, the way to enforce this is to make it underpowered (not useless, but a worse choice than others). It should be used for specific scenarios only.
Personally, I'd make it a civilian ship. Despite it's obvious military connections, this would prevent it's use in virtually any non-specific scenario.

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Postby H » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:29 pm

which would be a shame, as it looks ace (i my opinion) but then yes, it should never appear apart from a specific scenario or two. Or give bonuses in a campaign?!maybe a roll of 12 on 2 D6 has it find a new planet... you'd never field it really, but it would then serve as a specific exploration vessel?
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Postby Alexb83 » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:38 pm

Wulf Corbett wrote:
Burger wrote:It shouldn't be the kind of ship you see in a normal fleet, the way to enforce this is to make it underpowered (not useless, but a worse choice than others). It should be used for specific scenarios only.
Personally, I'd make it a civilian ship. Despite it's obvious military connections, this would prevent it's use in virtually any non-specific scenario.

Wulf
Only problem there is that it's clearly a miltary vessel. It is crewed by military personnel, and armed (to defend itsself) but it's not a frontline warship. Then again it's also not an auxiliary craft or tender. It is what it is... frankly atm I'm surprised you don't see it used more given that it is available for anyone outside of scenarios.
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Postby Valen is my name » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:22 pm

i think it would be good if it did have the scout trait, however when does it actually get used, the only time i can see an explorer fighting is if it gets ambushed, and even then all it would do is make a run for it, even in the crusade era EA, when hunting the dhrak, they still did not get involved in fighting because it was too expensive to risk losing one.
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Postby Silvereye » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:23 pm

Alexb83 wrote:The unlimited range scout thing definately needs looking at - either removing it entirely or giving it out to more fluff-wise deserving ships like Shadow/Vorlon ships, or Drakh and Minbari.
How about a slight change to the generic Scout trait. As it stands it is either 24" or unlimited (EA Delphi). Tweak the trait to Scout (Range x") where x is the maximum range the Scout abilities can be used at.

I always assumed that the Explorer's improved sensors and stuff was part of its Command trait.
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Postby Da Boss » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:39 pm

I always thought it was weird in the episode they got lost - cos they are supposed to explore out beyond the charted areas - how did they do that then - - sorry no relevance to the game but there you go.

It works in special scenarios etc as a target or objective or just something different to fight...................
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Postby Hugbiel » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:28 am

Maybe add some campaign rules for exploring ( bringing a command +3 bonus for attacking an explored target, but risking a conter explorer attack (possible on CQ 10 if defending scout can spot them ) in a assasination like senario with the explorer as the VIP.
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Postby LordClinto » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:08 pm

Alexb83 wrote:...Going along these lines, the Sharlin encountered by the Prometheus in In the Beggining had sensors strong enough to disrupt their jump drives. Can't this be argued as far better than typical EA sensors? Heck, you could even stat it as a weapon to disrupt EA jump point traits :)
If you read some of the mongoose fluff from E-M War it says that the shielding on the Prometheus' Jump Engines wasn't sufficient to block the radiation or some such emitted by the Sharlin's sensors.
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