Progress on 2e

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
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Postby Junior » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:23 pm

In truth my comment about the EA not having armageddon ships where the Brakiri do, is really just born in jealousy, I have no doubt that the EA could thrive without them, but it's just a ego thing. I just hope if we don't get a Armageddon type ship that our War type ship's are a bit on the high end for war type ships, to reflect that we would take two war types over one armageddon type, indeed we might have too, with the exception of the Excalibur.
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Postby daishi » Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:17 am

I have just read all 39 pages over last couple of days & wanted to make a few comments - if I make a comment that may have already been sorted I apologise in advance but there is alot of comments to try & remember.

2e shadow fleet - new ship - maybe a juvenile shadow ship for lower PL which could be the size of the FA scale shadow ships - being organic ships wouldn't they have to grow to the full size ships

some people have asked for an indicative date for release of 2e but I have not seen a proper answer - we all will accept, I am sure, a date that may change if it states something along the lines of autumn 2007 subject to change

proofreaders - there was talk of getting proofreaders but I didnt see anything saying it was finalised - if it isnt too late I would like to put my hand up for it - I am just starting to learn the rules of ACTA & SFOS so I could proofread the rules from a newbie position to see if a rule makes sense plus I am kind of picky about spelling

I dont have Armageddon rules yet & may not bother with 2e coming out but I created a house making stealth normal at long range & 1 pt easier to hit within 8" (I think) based on some house rules I found in forum otherwise I liked the stealth rule as it stands

anyway back to painting my fleets (Shadows complete, ISA almost complete 6 WS to go, EA 1/2 way)

thanks for your time
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Postby H » Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:18 am

emperorpenguin wrote:
hiffano wrote:The problem here is, people always assume the league races are worse.

look at Britain, tiny Island, yet we can still produce Items of better quality (well, the military can) than a Chinese operation, yet they have vastly more people, bigger armed forces, communist state to get things done cheaper etc.
Nope they are either non-militaristic/low in numbers/ambition

You use the example of Britain and China. What about the example that although nations such as Japan, Germany, Canada are hi-tech they don't have aircraft carriers or nukes that less advanced nations such as Brazil (former) or India (both) or North korea (latter) have?
the EA had just gone through civil war, half their fleet was wiped out, their planet quarantined, it's perfectly likely that in that time frame, they couldn't build a dedicated armageddon ship, whilst other races can. (same argument may go to the Narn who had been under centauri control)
Well you said it yourself, if the EA are disqualified on those grounds then how come the Narn do......
wellI just said the same argument may be used for the Narn, and if they didn't get an Arm ship, basing a recent battering off the centauri as the reason, it would make sense anyway, so i'd accept it (I'm sure many would think I won't, but the Bin'Tak is such a fine ship, 2 of them outclass any armageddon ship really.

My point on Britain was to do with the capeabiluty, not the desire, I'm sure if Japan wanted (and was actually allowed) it would build a bloody good aircraft carrier or three, and some damned shiny nukes, same goes for Germany, those two nations are not allowed to build such things under treaties signed after WWII and come on, Canada? building Nukes? they are just to darn nice to even consider using them ;-) The other nations who do have those things usualy buy them off others, and to be fair, most grad students could build a nuke if they had the right bits, look, I have one in my Loft for a strike against GW.....
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Postby Valen is my name » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:55 am

would there be a new supplement for people who already have all the books, or is so much changing that you have to just buy the whole thing whether you have any previous books or not?l
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Postby katadder » Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:51 pm

I think Japan not building nukes is more a fact of they dotn want to, having known what they do by experiencing it 1st hand they are dead set against nukes.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:57 pm

katadder wrote:I think Japan not building nukes is more a fact of they dotn want to, having known what they do by experiencing it 1st hand they are dead set against nukes.
correct, they have debated in parliament developing nukes (would take them 6 months) if they felt they needed them against North Korea. So far their pacifism and history has them saying no.
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Postby animus » Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:13 pm

Maybe this is why Japan doesn't want nukes:

http://www.truemajority.org/bensbbs

I mean, what would be the point? :(
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Postby Valen is my name » Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:21 pm

would there be a new supplement for people who already have all the books, or is so much changing that you have to just buy the whole thing whether you have any previous books or not?
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Postby katadder » Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:25 pm

2e will be new so will need buying if you want to stay upto date. obviously you can use whatever you like within your play group and play 1e.
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Postby animus » Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:08 pm

Having only 2 books sounds like heaven for me! I'll buy.
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Postby Triggy » Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:19 pm

daishi wrote:I have just read all 39 pages over last couple of days & wanted to make a few comments - if I make a comment that may have already been sorted I apologise in advance but there is alot of comments to try & remember.

2e shadow fleet - new ship - maybe a juvenile shadow ship for lower PL which could be the size of the FA scale shadow ships - being organic ships wouldn't they have to grow to the full size ships

some people have asked for an indicative date for release of 2e but I have not seen a proper answer - we all will accept, I am sure, a date that may change if it states something along the lines of autumn 2007 subject to change

proofreaders - there was talk of getting proofreaders but I didnt see anything saying it was finalised - if it isnt too late I would like to put my hand up for it - I am just starting to learn the rules of ACTA & SFOS so I could proofread the rules from a newbie position to see if a rule makes sense plus I am kind of picky about spelling

I dont have Armageddon rules yet & may not bother with 2e coming out but I created a house making stealth normal at long range & 1 pt easier to hit within 8" (I think) based on some house rules I found in forum otherwise I liked the stealth rule as it stands

anyway back to painting my fleets (Shadows complete, ISA almost complete 6 WS to go, EA 1/2 way)

thanks for your time
Shadows will be looked at soon and hopefully (from my point too) they will have a (slightly) expanded fleet list - particularly at the middle Priority Levels.

Stealth will change to some degree but we will still have to see how it turns out in finality.

Proofreading will get a little more serious as we get closer to the release date...

...speaking of the release date, Matt is pressing everyone pretty hard to aim for early Autumn. We're trying is the short answer to that :)
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Postby daishi » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:12 pm

thank you Triggy for your reply
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Postby Junior » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:54 am

hiffano wrote:The problem here is, people always assume the league races are worse.
Lets not forget the Abbai have shielding technology and are nearly as old, and possibly advanced as the Minbari, the Brakiri have more money than pretty much everyone else, those two things combined should have no problem whipping up a bigger ship.
The League are the league as they themselves don't have the political clout of the other races, this doesn't mean they are backwards and unable to produce something state of the art, look at Britain, tiny Island, yet we can still produce Items of better quality (well, the military can) than a Chinese operation, yet they have vastly more people, bigger armed forces, communist state to get things done cheaper etc.
the EA had just gone through civil war, half their fleet was wiped out, their planet quarantined, it's perfectly likely that in that time frame, they couldn't build a dedicated armageddon ship, whilst other races can. (same argument may go to the Narn who had been under centauri control)

People often look at EA, as the portrayed race in the show and automatically assume they are bigger and better than everyone in the show, apart from where blatant, in the minbari and ancients, you have to remember, sure, they beat the dilgar when the league couldn't, but then apart from the Drazi, Humans are the most warlike nation in the galaxy anyway, doesn't necesarily mean they had better ships, they just used em better, at no stage is their anything that specifically states that the EA ARE technologically better than the league races (someone will drag up a line now won't they)
plus, lets face it, with the exception of the victory, and maybe adira, most races would be better taking 2 warships anyway
I always thought the Centauri were the most warlike, they were just silver tongued liars, there war's of aggression nearly claimed most of the galaxy and enslaved countless people, I read somewhere some of the ancients had a theory that the shadows modified the Centauri to be more imperialistic. And about the ancient theory, that is here-say as I cant back it up.
Last edited by Junior on Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:59 am

Junior wrote:I always thought the Centauri were the most warlike, sure they had a silver charismatic tongue, but there war's of aggression nearly claimed most of the galaxy and enslaved countless people, I read somewhere some of the ancients had a theory that the shadows modified the Centauri to be more imperialistic. And about the ancient theory, that is here-say as I cant back it up.
I always wanted them to elaborate on why Londo didn't see Kosh. I wish Vir had been there so we'd know if it was because Londo was touched by darkness or because of the Centauri as a race

Technically I'd say the Drazi are most warlike, their culture is founded on conflict!
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Postby Junior » Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:04 am

emperorpenguin wrote:
Junior wrote:I always thought the Centauri were the most warlike, sure they had a silver charismatic tongue, but there war's of aggression nearly claimed most of the galaxy and enslaved countless people, I read somewhere some of the ancients had a theory that the shadows modified the Centauri to be more imperialistic. And about the ancient theory, that is here-say as I cant back it up.
I always wanted them to elaborate on why Londo didn't see Kosh. I wish Vir had been there so we'd know if it was because Londo was touched by darkness or because of the Centauri as a race

Technically I'd say the Drazi are most warlike, their culture is founded on conflict!
I always assumed it was just Lando who couldn't see Kosh.
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Postby emperorpenguin » Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:09 am

Junior wrote:I always assumed it was just Lando who couldn't see Kosh.

Londo Image

Lando is this guy Image

:wink:
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Postby Junior » Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:10 am

emperorpenguin wrote:
Junior wrote:I always assumed it was just Lando who couldn't see Kosh.

Londo Image

Lando is this guy Image

:wink:
Heh umm oops :P Oh and on a side-note it would have been interesting to see if Vir saw a bald Centauri, I figured the reason Sheridan saw a bald human head had something to do with percieved devoutness, I think thats a crock but I like hair, so...
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Postby Abraxas » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:44 am

animus wrote:Maybe this is why Japan doesn't want nukes:

http://www.truemajority.org/bensbbs

I mean, what would be the point? :(
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It was pretty neat.
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Postby Wulf Corbett » Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:28 am

emperorpenguin wrote:Technically I'd say the Drazi are most warlike, their culture is founded on conflict!
There's a big big difference between war and personal conflict. The Centauri have a far far more expansionist outlook, the Drazi just like a good punchup...

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Postby H » Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:46 am

yeah, the Centauri conquered through being technologically superior, they give the impression that in a fair fight, they may not be that hot, Drazi in a fist fight are probably the dogs proverbials, but they aren't a seriously experianced military machine, Humans on the other hand are vicious, coniving, experianced, and quite merciless. None of this Startrek crap where we shun money and developp the prime directive, When man goes into space, we will be looking to kick people around and nick their resources, thats why EA punch above their weight.
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