Update on Battlefield Evo - The Full Scoop

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
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Update on Battlefield Evo - The Full Scoop

Postby MongooseMatt » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:22 pm

Hi guys,

Well, today has been an. . . interesting one. A lot of transatlantic and transasian phone calls, a flurry of emails, and me driving across the country to meet various gamers and distributors, BF Evo models in hand. Before making any firm decisions, we decided to talk to some of the people with a vested interest in the games (the distributors who have a wide breadth of experience with games, and of course gamers, who know _exactly_ what they want). A consensus was formed on the following;

1. No, the models are not to the same standard as we had all been led to believe they would be.
2. No, the recent photos do not do them any justice at all.
3. Yes, when viewed in the flesh (so to speak) they match or exceed other pre-painted models on the market at this time.
4. Yes, the complete package (miniatures and game) is a good one, and well worth pursuing.

To emphasise the point, of all the people I have shown the models to today, only one expressed any real reservation, and that was due to a real desire to have the best looking models possible. However, even he conceded that, when viewed up close, the work was good. The problem is that it was not excellent :)

For these reasons, we have decided to proceed as planned with Battlefield Evolution. However, there are some things I would like to make clear, so please bear with me.

First off, we are getting some decent photos sorted out - the last set were completely my fault, as I uploaded them without double checking anything more than file names. Mea culpa. You will have these hopefully by the end of Friday and you will get a good look at what these models are about. As I say, it has been generally agreed (and by people with no connection to Mongoose, I hasten to add) that the paintwork is at least as good as those in the current market and, by and large, better. They _are_ a step forward.

Now, being candid for a moment, we have realised for quite a while that we made a rod for our own backs by doing BF Evo first, and not SST. SST would have been simplicity itself in comparison, due to larger models, no real world counterparts to compare to, simpler paint schemes, and no damnable camouflage! The paint work on the latter, incidentally, is not bad at all when you see the models close up.

Overall, I would say that we have hit the target but missed the bullseye. To stretch the archery analogy further, I believe we also moved the target a few dozen yards down range and shot in high wind. A bridge too far, to mix metaphors. However, we have still achieved something worthwhile.

I mentioned the package as a whole being a good one - this is something I truly believe to be correct. I said in another post that we have worked extremely hard on this project. The game is a real cracker, quite possibly the best we have done thus far. If you have liked any of our other games, I would ask you to trust us on this at least.

I also have to hold my hand up and say that, after having spent an entire day with the models. . . they are growing on me. I am beginning to like 'em! There is room for improvement, of course, but this is something we have never been afraid of. The first thing to change in wave 2 will be the faces - more definition and we'll lose the googly eyes. The vehicles will lose the few visible mould lines but, to be honest, there are very few issues with the tanks and other vehicles in the range.

Needless to say, we are having some serious talks with our factory to improve a) quality and b) quality control. This is not something that is being taken lightly by either party.

Now, there will be those of you who will still disagree with what I have said here - we understand completely. A few have raised the possibility of refunds on pre-orders on these forums (though, funnily enough, we have only had one direct request). Of course you can have a refund. You can have a refund on any pre-order on any product from us, there doesn't have to be a reason! However, I have an offer for you. . .

We believe that, when you see the models up close for yourself, you will agree that they are of good quality. Therefore, we would like to send you the models you have ordered. If you still do not like them (and provided they have not been opened of course - the boxes have clear packaging, so you can see what you are buying), we would be more than happy to refund you, no quibbles.

The other thing that may raise a few questions is the deletion of certain threads in this forum. I hope you can understand why we did this. If you wish to continue those discussions, believe me, there are plenty of other places on the internet where you can go :)

As always, we'll try to be as open as we possibly can with you, our customers, potential and otherwise. Yes, we were caught wrong footed here by a supplier and some serious words are being exchanged in that area. However, many people have convinced me today that Battlefield Evolution is not just acceptable, but a good product that is worth giving a try. Over the next few months, we'll continue working with our factory to elevate the level of quality of each subsequent release to first match, then exceed your expectations. That has always been our aim, and we are not going to give up because of a stumble at the first hurdle.

Oh, and one last thing. Whatever you personally decide about the models, give the game a try. It is a good 'un!
Matthew Sprange

Mongoose Publishing
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Postby Captain_Nemo » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:29 pm

Cool. I'm in.
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Postby boomgoose » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:33 pm

Well Matt, thanks for coming here and giving us this info. I appreciate your effort in this game. Sadly, I am still unconvinced that this game will apeal to me because of the huge disparity between the earlier models and the now-apparently-final product. The first pictures had me absolutely salivating for this game. The pictures from yesterday and now Mongoose's decision to go forward with these models have caused me to decide to cancel the majority of my preordered product. I will still give this game a try, when it becomes available, and make my final decision then. However, the wind has definitely been stolen from my sails. I am gravely disappointed that this mix-up of monumental proportions was allowed to occur. I feel for you, and hear your love of this game. Maybe wave 2 will reignite my fires, but for now, the flame is gone.

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Postby captrooper » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:35 pm

Well, while not entirely happy - DDM and SWM look cheap now by comparison - I'll stay in. As I said on another forum, I like the idea of the game and the rules I have seen so far etc.
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Postby shmitty » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:40 pm

Can we expect that future production runs of the Wave 1 minis will be of a higher quality?
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Postby Mr Evil » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:40 pm

hmmmmmmmmmmm

well we shall see

discusion is revolution, a discusion with no imediat chnge in situation is not revolution so not a true discusion.

just make sure matt your happy with the dessision and are 1000% sure these modles will sell and are of far better quality than the images we have seen. Disributers like to shove stuff through as fast as they can as they have bills to pay, and there rarly the ones that go bust on a bad product, infact they can often make a killing, at the exspence of the supplier. RIP grenadier :(

on a good note will be nice to see these in person asap, any idea when we shall see them in traveling man in the uk ?
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Postby MongooseMatt » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:42 pm

Shmitty: I would like to say yes to this, but you'll understand if I don't promise anything until I see it with my own eyes first :)

Mr Evil: Of course I would like the situation to be different. I do, however, have sincere faith in the game as a whole. Expect to see them from the second week in February.
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Postby danty2001ad » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:49 pm

Matt,

Just like to say, 10/10 for keeping customers involved and updated. I will be leaving my pre-order where it is, and wait to see what happens when the models arrive.
I am slightly disapointed (obviously) that the quality has dropped, but the way this situation has been handled by Mongoose means I will keep the faith until the models are in my hands!
Thanks again,

Dan.
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Postby Mr Evil » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:49 pm

cheers matt, best luck to you and your team and the game.

sincearly meen the best to you guys, as it deserves to be all it can be.

ive toyed with the tanks and tank battles are fun, so evan if i dont get the troops the tanks will be bought probably, if they look the bizz in the box
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Postby Rob_A » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:05 pm

I dont care either way, Im repainting mine.
Any unwanted bad ones on sale prices? :P :roll:
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Postby judgedoug » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:11 pm

I have just one question.

Did the representative for the model supplier tell Mongoose that the production miniatures would look like the prototypes?
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Re: Update on Battlefield Evo - The Full Scoop

Postby Paladin » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:19 pm

msprange wrote: First off, we are getting some decent photos sorted out - the last set were completely my fault, as I uploaded them without double checking anything more than file names. Mea culpa. You will have these hopefully by the end of Friday and you will get a good look at what these models are about.
Looking forward to Friday. It will be the determining factor on my vote for the infantry. The tanks are tolerable and can be cleaned up as one would with flashing on metal casts. I enjoyed the rule set and will be getting the Advanced Rules book either way.


Thank you for your efforts and keeping us informed.
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Postby MongooseMatt » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:29 pm

judgedoug wrote:I have just one question.

Did the representative for the model supplier tell Mongoose that the production miniatures would look like the prototypes?
Yes.
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Postby Mr Evil » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:34 pm

go to bed matt you darn slave to your self :D

im sure tommorow there be more to unearth :?

by the way i have refered to this situation as a Car crash its the last thing you need but you cant look away !!!!
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Postby Col_stone » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:36 pm

Thanks for the info, nobody can say that mongoose doesn't communicate with it's customers
I hope everything works out fine, as for the rulebook i can't wait to get my hands on it:)
I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for better pics:)
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Postby Reborn » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:40 pm

msprange wrote:
judgedoug wrote:I have just one question.

Did the representative for the model supplier tell Mongoose that the production miniatures would look like the prototypes?
Yes.
I think that's disgraceful. I'd like to go over to China and beat them myself, but I don't have a stick or the money for a plane ticket.
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Postby judgedoug » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:44 pm

msprange wrote:
judgedoug wrote:I have just one question.

Did the representative for the model supplier tell Mongoose that the production miniatures would look like the prototypes?
Yes.
Thanks, that's what I figured. I don't suppose the model supplier is going to offer massive discounts to Mongoose, who will in turn pass them on to us?

As it stands, honestly, I'm definitely not going to buy the infantry if they look like the new pictures. The tanks look just fine and are still a deal at $25 apiece. But if the supplier offered discounts and you guys passed them on, I would (and I think many others would, too) get the infantry if they were offered at a lower price (25% off the current price, at least).

Just my thoughts.
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Postby PilGrim » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:45 pm

[quote="Mr Evil"]go to bed matt you darn slave to your self :D

Not bad advice under the circumstances.
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Postby Hiromoon » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:07 pm

Oh thank goodness.....

I so didn't want to be lynched by the gamers in my area.....

Thankyou Matt!
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Postby Sgt. Brassones » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:08 pm

Deep breath....Phew. OK, feeling better now. The preorder is still in place and I'm still really looking foward to this game. I wasn't planning to do any repainting of the figs but maybe now I'll just redo the faces and add some detail. Heck, sounds fun!
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