White Star fixes (Armageddon)

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Postby Ripple » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:55 am

Which allows for any fluff of any kind. Anything we want can be just off screen. Hardly a good argument for anything either.

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Postby Goldritter » Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:16 am

I think i´ve seen a Nova in one of the Episodes which handle about the EA Civil War.
But I don´t know the name of the Episode.

If I´ve enough time I will look the DVDs again.
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Postby Voronesh » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:30 am

That would be great Goldritter.

And yes a battle lvl Nova would play the E-M war all different.

Cause HUll 6 versus 5 means alot less hits. And to actually make a battle lvl ship, the weapons would need a boost. Not much but a little. Basically think PD Omega and youd get a nova but with different arc loadout.

If you go equal on the numbers of Omega PD and Sharlins, all of the sudden the battles will play differently. Had to imagine EA didnt get a single Sharlin kill.

4 versus 1 (war verus raid) is alot different from 2 vs 1 (war versus battle).

You cant just shift things around and expect to retain canon stats perfectly.

And i never said the movies were NOT canon. And we know that during the 3rd age the Nova is still there. You mentioned yourself that the Nova is the big stick and the Omega the long range patrol vessel. That should give a handy number of Novae right at Erath orbit. Cause you keep the big sticks close to maintenance (also your argument).
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Postby captainsmirk » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:48 am

Well I got the impression that they aren't actually building Nova's any more (most modern ships have a limited production run which once over they rarely build any more) and so any which are still around are those which survived the E-M war. Omegas were built in large numbers to replace the losses suffered during the war with a more modern ship, which would be why the EA had so many of them. As the big new ship on the block they were assigned to the Earth defense force (hell Novas didn't help a lot during the Battle of Line...)

Admittedly all this comes from RPG and B5wars sources and not the series itself...

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Postby lastbesthope » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:04 pm

Ripple wrote:Which allows for any fluff of any kind. Anything we want can be just off screen. Hardly a good argument for anything either.

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But it's something to consider, even allowing for the fact that B5 is all made up, anytime JMSS needs somehthing he makes it exist, Explorer Vessels, a WS fleet.

In real life you can never prove something doesn't exist, you can only prove something does.

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Postby Ripple » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:21 pm

True enough, I guess I just prefer to work from we saw x in the show therefore we can draw y conclusion. Anytime I have to say well it must have been just off screen I feel I am reaching.

And on that topic I still want my warbirds w/ missle launchers, none of this darkhawk madness.

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Postby katadder » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:25 pm

well going by what we see in the show 20 whitestars can take 8 shadow omegas easy, but in game i doubt it. even in SFOS would have been tough batle, now the whitestar has been downgraded and the omega X upgraded.
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Postby lastbesthope » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:26 pm

Ahh but katadder, you forget, the Ws on the show are powered by plot :lol:

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Postby katadder » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:27 pm

and the ones we got are low end raid ships, possibly just above skirmish level. and buggered if face anything with interceptors.
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Postby CZuschlag » Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:44 am

LBH,
You can prove something don't exist ....
.... but usually only in mathematics.

Katadder,
Be your assesstment as it may, those weak "low-end raid ship" WS's won the 14-man Chicago ACtA tourney, fairly clearly! (The players involved were all reasonable enough a group of menches not to take Saggis and the 2xHunter,Scout fleets)
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Postby Apachex » Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:34 am

lastbesthope wrote:Ahh but katadder, you forget, the Ws on the show are powered by plot :lol:

LBH
Regardless, if the data doesn't match the source material, than the game is incorrect.
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Postby katadder » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:20 am

CZuschlag wrote: Katadder,
Be your assesstment as it may, those weak "low-end raid ship" WS's won the 14-man Chicago ACtA tourney, fairly clearly! (The players involved were all reasonable enough a group of menches not to take Saggis and the 2xHunter,Scout fleets)
not enough people know how to kill them then :D when you hav a dargan takes on 2 in the tourney i won and was beating them both and their fighters whithout its own fighter support you know something is wrong.
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Postby Shadow Queen » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:55 am

Me being me would of thought that the WS Gunship would replace the WSC-2
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Postby Goldritter » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:40 am

Goldritter wrote:I think i´ve seen a Nova in one of the Episodes which handle about the EA Civil War.
But I don´t know the name of the Episode.

If I´ve enough time I will look the DVDs again.
I´ve looked again and couldn´t find a Nova.
Sorry.
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Postby Voronesh » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:42 pm

Well.

On Shadow Omegas.

I dont like them at Armageddon.

Omega is Battle. Omega-X is just grafted shadow tech. A 2fold effectiveness increase, maybe. 4fold....harldly believeable. apart from the truth, that the Omega-X is woefully underpowered for Armageddon.... :S

And somerthing called WS on screen might have been upgraded WS, think WS-2 without missles. Already gives it a nice boost :D
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Postby Lord David the Denied » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:43 pm

Apachex wrote:Regardless, if the data doesn't match the source material, than the game is incorrect.
Agree with you 100%
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Postby Slightly Norse John » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:51 pm

Terminologically, the word 'frigate' appears in four centuries of naval history, and seldom means the same thing twice.
Fleets evolve as technology evolves, names sometimes stay the same and get behind the times, sometimes change their meaning entirely. 'Dreadnought' was a historical accident; it's been an RN battleship name since the 1650s if not earlier. The name simply happened to attach itself to the first of a new breed, possibly deliberately given 'Jackie' Fisher's sense of melodrama.
To try and reach some kind of sensible medium, let's look at what they're designed to do. Battleship, historically a contraction of 'line-of-battleship', basically denotes a vessel designed to project maximum possible killing power, and built to if possible survive the enemy doing the same to it. Speed would be nice, but you can't have everything. Technically, the dreadnoughts were never acknowledged as a separate type, all were given BS designations, assigned to Battle Squadrons, etc.
Cruisers are designed to cruise. They have to be smaller than battleships, because for one thing they aren't built on a budget of 'whatever it takes'. They cover area, blockade and interdict civilian traffic, and act as the eyes and outriders of the fleet. They tend to be serious warships, big enough to be allowed out on their own.
Destroyers began as the fleet's close escort, and rapidly evolved into their main threat. They are small enough to be numerous, fast and agile enough to survive a clash with a much larger ship if not necessarily win, pack hunters and defence against same. The White Star is actually an absolutely classic fleet destroyer type, fits the bill perfectly in terms of function and relative qualities.
The wooden frigate turned into the ironclad cruiser; WW2 and after frigates happened to be about the same size, which is why they inherited the name. Latterday frigates are defensive, and usually against special threats at that. No submarines in space, unless your hyperdrive has developed a really bizarre malfunction.
The Nova is a old, outdated battleship, tactically, and the Omega is a new heavy cruiser, made more effective than it's predecessor by advancing technology.
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Postby lastbesthope » Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:10 pm

CZuschlag wrote:LBH,
You can prove something don't exist ....
.... but usually only in mathematics.
You can't prove something doesn't exist, even in maths, they just make up new maths to create new stuff, like the square root of -1. BEfore they decided they wanted that, you could prove it didn't exist.
Apachex wrote:
lastbesthope wrote:Ahh but katadder, you forget, the Ws on the show are powered by plot :lol:

LBH
Regardless, if the data doesn't match the source material, than the game is incorrect.
No, they just haven't incorporated plot into the game's rules yet :lol:
Plus we don't have stats for Ivanova yet, she might get arule stating she beats Shadow Omegas when in a WS 8)

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Postby Apachex » Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:18 pm

Goldritter wrote:
Goldritter wrote:I think i´ve seen a Nova in one of the Episodes which handle about the EA Civil War.
But I don´t know the name of the Episode.

If I´ve enough time I will look the DVDs again.
I´ve looked again and couldn´t find a Nova.
Sorry.
In "message from Earth" they have a bunch of people in the Zocolo watching and ISN report of the EAS Alexander fighting loyalist forces near Io. On the vid you can see a Nova (I think it was the Scwarzkopf) firing at an Omega. When the Alexander jumps everyone cheers and the night watch steps in, instigating a riot.....
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Postby Right Hand of God » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:15 pm

Triggy and LBH said that the WS2 remains unchanged, however, going on Burger's ship viewer for armageddon stats, the WS2 has been downgraded slightly, it has lost a beam shot and 3 pulsar shots going down from 8 to 5, maybe that is a mistake in Burger's ship viewer maybe not, can anyone who currently has a copy of Armageddon confirm which is right please?
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