Chronos

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
bdm77
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Chronos

Postby bdm77 » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:28 pm

Has anyone come up with some Chronos variants? If so could please post them.
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Postby Tibour » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:45 pm

Some ships are so good that they just don't need varients. Currently this is a new EA hull as well. If they move the timeline forward you may see varients. The only thing I think would make this ship better is 360 anti-fighter weapons.
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Postby alien027 » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:05 am

In my beleve, a Chronos Asault ship could be a great deal for EA fleet list.
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Postby bdm77 » Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:22 am

I would not mind seeing some stats worked out for it.
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Postby Destroid » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:25 am

I reckon something like:

Chronos Assault Transport
PL: Skirmish
Speed: 8
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage:20/5
Crew: 18/5
Troops: 10
In service: ?
Special: Interceptors 3, Shuttles 2

Weapons
Heavy Pulse Cannon: Range 12", Twin-Linked
F, P, S, A: 4
Particle Beams: Range 5", AF, Weak
P,S: 3

I suspect this is a little too good for Skirmish. Also can anyone comment on the relative size of the Chronos and the hull's suitability for conversion as a troop transport?

It'd be kinda cool to have a Chronos variant that carried 4 AD of Missile Racks in the Fore arc instead of Railguns.
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Postby Goldritter » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:49 am

In the Fluff I read for the Chronos in Babylon 5 Wars, the Chronos was a reaplacements for the Artemis and Olympus and is about the same size of the Artemis or the Olympus. Only a few meters longer.
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Postby Ripple » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:45 pm

Careful Goldritter, using that B5Wars language around here can get you strung up.

More seriously, there has been a movement to aviod using the previous fluff as much of it is seriously skewed by the current game mechanics. Look at the Halik 'fighter-killer' as an example of that. Try to go more off the miniature itself and the stats. These are things we can all agree on.

I think it is a shame that the earlier fluff was not used more in the design of the ships but I was not the one to think of reviving the mini's and getting the market active again so I try not bitch too much.

- I did proposed a re-fitted Halik that has a anti-fighter mode like the laser/pulse not for the Nova. Range 8, trade ap for anit-fighter. Makes it feel more like the ship it used to be. Folks seem to think that was cool, well maybe not the ISA player. So take my warning with a grain of salt as I obviously am still trying to use the old fluff. -

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Postby Destroid » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:56 am

I had a feeling the Chronos wasn't a big ship, and probably smaller than a Hyperion which might not make it a good ship for a troop transport. I recall reading somewhere on the web about a Tantalus Assault ship, which sounded like it was a variant or derivative of the Omega.
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Postby Voronesh » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:35 am

Actually ity makes sense to convert all the old hyps into troop ships.

The conversion already exists, so it cant be too hard, all the necessary components are already in production.

Troop ships should not face heavy punishment, unless there are big tactical mistakes made.

So lets save money and use those old rustbuckets......

But apart from that, i think the Crusade era fleets need some serious combat ship at Skirmish, something like a police cutter turned military.
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Postby Goldritter » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:13 am

Or a scaled down Raid ship.
The Hyperion make a good skirmish ship so use Hyperions with other Weaponloadout.
I liked the Rail Hyperion as a skirmish ship. So they can use the old (or new) Hyperion Variants as Skirmish ships.

I don´t think, that a upgraded Theyts is a good skirmish ship. Too low Hitpoints.
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Postby frobisher » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:33 am

Destroid wrote:I had a feeling the Chronos wasn't a big ship, and probably smaller than a Hyperion which might not make it a good ship for a troop transport. I recall reading somewhere on the web about a Tantalus Assault ship, which sounded like it was a variant or derivative of the Omega.
The Tantalus was its own hull type in B5 Wars and no miniature was made for it (huge shame). From the SCS it looked like you could kit bash it from an Omega with the rotating section from a Poseidon and a bit of imaginative filing and filling. It might be a damn good ship to add into ACtA though, as it carried two flights of Starfuries (Thunderbolts later) in addition to the assault shuttles and being reasonably well armed.

The big difference between the Chronos and the Hyperion is artifical gravity. I suspect the usable interior volume of the Chronos is about the same as that of the Hyperion (the former is kinda boxy, the latter is long and spindly) and all other things being equal, that makes the Chronos the better troop transport (you don't want to keep ground combat troops in zero g for any extended period if at all possible). As assault ships, they'd be about equal (if all they are doing is taking troops into the battle, they can rough it...) barring weapon load.

However, that's just fluff.
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Postby Arcadia » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:51 am

Chronos Gunship
PL: Raid
Speed: 8
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage:20/5
Crew: 18/5
Troops: 2
Special: Interceptors 3

Weapons
Medium Laser Cannon: 18", B, AD 5, Beam DD SAP
Railgun: 12", T, AD 6, AP DD
Medium Pulse Cannon: Range 12", F P S A, AD 4
Particle Beams: 5", P S, AD 4, AF Weak

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Postby Lord David the Denied » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:49 am

5AD on the beam seems a bit much at raid level. Packing the rest of that firepower and hull 6 makes this more powerful than the infamous Prefect...
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Postby Voronesh » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:33 am

Actually the beam isnt the problem. Its Boresighted vs frontarced and has less range.

Turreted Railguns are the only thing that worries me a little. Although the lower damage figures; 18 crew; shifts it back into balance. Should be just up there with the Prefect, if you cut the Beam a little or the railgun.

Now thats all fine and well, but id consider both to be a little too good.

They look like G'Quonth versus Tertius.......only they look even more disparage with one at battle and one at war.........
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Postby H » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:34 am

Ripple wrote:Careful Goldritter, using that B5Wars language around here can get you strung up.

More seriously, there has been a movement to aviod using the previous fluff as much of it is seriously skewed by the current game mechanics. Look at the Halik 'fighter-killer' as an example of that. Try to go more off the miniature itself and the stats. These are things we can all agree on.

I think it is a shame that the earlier fluff was not used more in the design of the ships but I was not the one to think of reviving the mini's and getting the market active again so I try not bitch too much.

- I did proposed a re-fitted Halik that has a anti-fighter mode like the laser/pulse not for the Nova. Range 8, trade ap for anit-fighter. Makes it feel more like the ship it used to be. Folks seem to think that was cool, well maybe not the ISA player. So take my warning with a grain of salt as I obviously am still trying to use the old fluff. -

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I've commented in the Halik "fighter" killer before, I agree I would have liked it to do the job in it's name, but then I would like the Ikorta to have the Atmospheric trait too... I'd probably never use it, but it should have it
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Postby Lord David the Denied » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:41 am

Voronesh wrote:Actually the beam isnt the problem. Its Boresighted vs frontarced and has less range.

Turreted Railguns are the only thing that worries me a little. Although the lower damage figures; 18 crew; shifts it back into balance. Should be just up there with the Prefect, if you cut the Beam a little or the railgun.

Now thats all fine and well, but id consider both to be a little too good.

They look like G'Quonth versus Tertius.......only they look even more disparage with one at battle and one at war.........
I disagree. 5AD beams at raid level is too much, even boresighted. Show me a ship with that kind of firepower at this level. Combined with hull 6 and interceptors 3 this variant isn't going to be stopped before it can use its beam at least once, and 18" isn't that short. Most Centauri beams come in at 20"-25".
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Postby Voronesh » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:46 am

sry my mistake.

thats what you get for writing a post in two stages. and reading a webcomic at the same time.

i kinda meant the beam 'alone' isnt the problem, the combination of beam and railguns is.

5ad boresighted at 18" vs 4ad frontarced at 25" is kinda fair i think. CAF ves no Car should balance it. But the full 6ad railgun on top is evil.
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Postby Lord David the Denied » Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:34 pm

CAF vs no CAF is irrelevent, and I'm sick of hearing it bandied about. 5AD of SAP, DD beam is very powerful. It's battle level powerful. The Narn G'Quan has 3AD beams boresighted at battle level, the EA Omega has 4AD beams boresighted at battle level. Why should an EA raid level ship get 5AD boresighted?

On top of the beam it's got rail guns turreted and decent secondaries. Enough to make it drastically overpowered for raid level and probably still broken at battle. Bump it up to battle or seriously gut its armament to make up for the massive laser.

*EDIT*

In fact, it should go up a level, like the Olympus Gunship, and lose all its secondaries. Just retain the particle beams. Thus it becomes a specialist laser boat useful for cracking big targets, but not so good for line duty. Like the Olympus Gunship it's clearly based on.
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Postby Voronesh » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:12 pm

Caf vs no CAF?

Uhh makes a big difference sry. If i could easily CAF my Bin'Tak with the Beam, while not having to look for the next planet, i would do it alot.......

A ship with 6AD Beam? Look no further than a ship mentioned by yourself.

The Olympus G has one extra AD and more damage points. Balanced by Hull4.....

But again compared against a Prefect this ship is marginally more powerful. Lose 3-4 AD on the Railgun and id call them even.

If you give it 6AD and make it battle, itd be woefully underpowered. Look no further than a Tertius for reasons.
Same beam but front arced.
Nonturreted secondaries but more powerful ones by far.
More damage points.
Not reliant on Interceptor so Beams dont play it like the Chronos.
At Battle this variant would be like a Haven at Patrol.
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"2nd edition, sir."


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Postby Ripple » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:05 am

Okay...so we are comapring this thing to the Prefect as a way of arguing the point.

First point goes to the Prefect with the front arc vs beam on the laser. Sorry, LDD this is a big deal. It is not just CAF. It is no All Stop, less use of CBD, no APtE...anything that reduces/removes your ability to turn can stop you from using a B weapon.

Second point goes to Chronus of course...five AD vs three. Five is just tad much on a ship that is this survivable and well armed.

Third point goes to the Prefect, survivability. The Chronus does have hull 6/interceptors 3 but it has less than half the crew of the Prefect and close to half the damage. Given the only difference in defense is the interceptors I would say the Prefect will survive more often than not.

Fourth point, usability of the weapons. Prefect does have shorter range and more restricted arcs on the secondaries, but the front arc is virtually identical in the 'sweet spot'. The turreted rail gun is a big bonus, but so is the extra seven inches of range on the beam. Even up in my book.

Fifth point, traits...jump point for the Prefect. Not a huge thing, but definately a big deal as in many battles a Raid ship might be your only jump point.

Sixth and final, manuever. Chronus wins this one despite the B restrictions on SAs. It is the two turns that just make it better. Sure one is usually going to be used to bring the bore to bear, but being able to come about more than 90 degrees can be a big deal.

All in all these ships are fairly close. The Chronus does have an advantage over the Prefect in that one bore shot it takes at range eighteen, but given it cannot use all stop/apte to get that shot you can almost certainly finesse the range to get an extra shot against it given you also have seven inches more range.

Now I am not in favor of either ship myself. But they do compare fairly closely in capability. I think this Chronus is overgunned by the Turreted railgun. That gun should be reduced to 4 AD, stolen right off an old Olympus. Reduce the beam by one die as well. Now you have a beam chronus that is not just better than a regular one, but fills a different role. You lose a fair number of pulse dice (2 to 4 per side), reduce your signiture railgun by a third and in return you get a B laser that is better but more difficult to use. It does the same role as the old hyperion in a fleet instead of the artemis/olympus.

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