Why is the Nemesis an Armageddon Level Ship ?

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Goldritter
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Postby Goldritter » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:25 pm

Read the fluff text for the Nemesis.
Even thejamming suites of the Minbari are useless against HEL-track, and should it come to it, the Nemesis would likelydecimate the advanced Minbari fleets, much as they did to Earth’s ships thirty-five years earlier.
So with this text passage I think, that the Nemesis was build to have a ship which can take it on against the Minbari.
But it can be that I understand these passage wrong.
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Alexb83
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Postby Alexb83 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:25 pm

Yes, and it's not as if Minbari ships aren't without their own drawbacks. Make good use of a scout, and put enough dice in their direction, and any of those luscious Hull 5 ships are going to get torn apart. Also, they seem to be generally slower than the new EA ships.

Also, neutron lasers don't exactly roll masses of dice. Each turn, a Sharlin only has a 1/6 chance of actually scoring a hit on a Nemesis.
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Postby H » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:27 pm

Goldritter wrote:Read the fluff text for the Nemesis.
Even thejamming suites of the Minbari are useless against HEL-track, and should it come to it, the Nemesis would likelydecimate the advanced Minbari fleets, much as they did to Earth’s ships thirty-five years earlier.
So with this text passage I think, that the Nemesis was build to have a ship which can take it on against the Minbari.
But it can be that I understand these passage wrong.
no you are quite right, however i wouldn't say the ships was designed purely to destroy minbari.. but it happens to be a useful co-incidence :-)
I still don't like the fact that they are trying to make EA the predominant power, bloody warhammer marines syndrone!
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Postby Goldritter » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:31 pm

Alexb83 wrote:Also, neutron lasers don't exactly roll masses of dice. Each turn, a Sharlin only has a 1/6 chance of actually scoring a hit on a Nemesis.
6 AD with SAP,DD,Precise.
If they don´t CAF they have ca. 3+1 = 4 Hits and 1 Crit.
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Postby Voronesh » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:35 pm

Yes well Crusade era EA fits the bill of marine power complexion quite nicely yes.

Fine comparison didnt think of it myself, but i think ill call it that from now on :D

But against 2 Sharlins the Nemesis will fail admirably. As any other Armageddon lvl ship except ISA and Centauri.

12 AD goes for 8 hits at 16 damage with 2-3 crits......and no useless interceptor can do anything about it.

Plus 16 AD of fusion cannons for extra fun :D
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Postby Lord David the Denied » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:37 pm

Then the eight Nial flights and two Flyer flights sweeping the Starfuries aside and pouring more fire into the Nemesis...
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Postby captainsmirk » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:40 pm

hiffano wrote:the Minbari have been designing starships since Humans were wearing platemail and hitting each other with pointy bits of metal
And yet they still hit people with blunt bits of metal...


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Postby Alexb83 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:50 pm

I think I detect a case of pikal envy :)
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Postby Goldritter » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:52 pm

Alexb83 wrote:Yes, and it's not as if Minbari ships aren't without their own drawbacks. Make good use of a scout, and put enough dice in their direction, and any of those luscious Hull 5 ships are going to get torn apart. Also, they seem to be generally slower than the new EA ships.
The Sharlin has a speed of 8 so in ca. 2-4 rounds it´s behind the Nemesis and can hold the distance of 11"+. So it can use it´s Fusion Cannons to attack the Nemesis and the Nemesis have not many possibilities to get the Sharlin again into his Front Firing arc, where are its only weapons with a range of more then 10".
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Postby Goldritter » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:53 pm

Alexb83 wrote:I think I detect a case of pikal envy :)
O.K. english is not my mother tongue.
What is "pikal envy" ???
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Postby Goldritter » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:57 pm

Voronesh wrote:Yes well Crusade era EA fits the bill of marine power complexion quite nicely yes.

Fine comparison didnt think of it myself, but i think ill call it that from now on :D

But against 2 Sharlins the Nemesis will fail admirably. As any other Armageddon lvl ship except ISA and Centauri.

12 AD goes for 8 hits at 16 damage with 2-3 crits......and no useless interceptor can do anything about it.

Plus 16 AD of fusion cannons for extra fun :D
Or better take 4 Shantavi.
4x4 AD with TD,SAP,Precise.Beam :twisted:
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Postby Alexb83 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:04 pm

Goldritter wrote:
Alexb83 wrote:I think I detect a case of pikal envy :)
O.K. english is not my mother tongue.
What is "pikal envy" ???
In the aftermath of a fight.
G'Kar: "I was doing fine until you showed up with that thing in hand." (his minbari fighting pike)
Marcus: "It's a Minbari fighting pike several hundred years old. You're just jealous 'cause you don't have one. A bad case of pikal envy if you ask me."

Marcus lets G'Kar examine the pike. G'Kar activates it and knocks over several boxes.
G'Kar: "I like it."

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denn%27Bok"
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Postby captainsmirk » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:09 pm

Pikal Envy (pi'kal en'vee)
Being envious of size another's long blunt fighting instrument.
See Minbari Fighting Pike (Den'Bok)
See also ***** envy.

:D
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Postby Goldritter » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:06 pm

AHHHHHH.
Now I understand ;).
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Postby Voronesh » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:36 pm

And very full of sexual ambiguity if you ask me.

Oh and Indiana Jones has your solution to that problem.

Sword swinging maniacs beware....hes got a little gun :D

Back on track
Yes i always wonder about the Shantavi....it just seems evil.
And about the Nials with Flyers frying extra Nemesis stuff. They should put out about 10 hits every round, discounting interceptors heh...
"We are out of energy mines sir!"
"What? When did logistics stop supplying us?"
"2nd edition, sir."


Don't mind me, im just playing Devil's Advocate of the Shuuka.
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Postby Slightly Norse John » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:25 pm

Shantavi lose agility and flank firepower to fit that big gun; against a fast, handy enemy, they can actually be a liability.
However, if the enemy is stupid enough to take a small number of big ships, assassinating them is exactly what the Shantavi was built for. Waste him.
To fight fleets composed of Battle level or below, give each Shantavi an ordinary Tinashi to cover it at least- better two, or don't take them.
Human pikes are also adjustable in length; picture the scene, you're a seventeenth century squaddie carrying a roughly 15 foot wooden pole with a spike on the end. It's clumsy, it's heavy, it's a pain to carry- and you can chop bits off the blunt end and cook your dinner over them. Most pikes didn't stay at the 15ft mark for very long.
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Postby Voronesh » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:27 pm

Also i think Tigaras make nice escorts for Shantavis.

Lots of fire coverage,a nd those precise weapons can hurt like hell.
"We are out of energy mines sir!"
"What? When did logistics stop supplying us?"
"2nd edition, sir."


Don't mind me, im just playing Devil's Advocate of the Shuuka.
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Postby Goldritter » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:26 pm

Locutus9956 wrote:The larger EA ships generally have weaker other arcs to balance out the INSANE firepower of their main forward weaponry (and quite rightly so).
Many other races (like the Centauri) have the same "insane" main forward weaponery. 6AD DD,SAP,Beam for the Primus or the Octurion and 8AD SAP,Beam,DD,Precise for the Adira.
The Sharlin have 6AD DD,Beam,SAP,Precise. And these are only the main weapons.
And all in the Forward Firing Arc (not Boresight as the EA or Narn).

But I knew, that one of the advantages of the EA their high firepower is.
(To compensate theire lack of manouverability.)
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Postby Alexb83 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:36 pm

To quote ambassador Mollari:

"even at the very height of our empire, we never dared challenge the Minbari" :)
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Postby Slightly Norse John » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:21 am

Which only goes to show that the Centauri admirals play too many games with cards and not enough with dice.
That's the whole point behind so- called 'broken' ships like the Tertius, Prefect, Salust. We need them to go and hunt Minbari.
Incidentally, the 'Londo/Lando' thing- Lando is a perfectly authentic late dark ages/early mediaeval christian name, south western Germany, 9th-10th centuries AD. Just thought you ought to know.

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