White Star fleet

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White Star fleet

Postby ubertechie » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:38 am

Having looked at all of the options in the white star fleet am still convinced that only 3 options are really worth taking - thoose being
White stars - unchanged in Armageddon and still great ships
White star carriers - fantastic value - gives both a great ship and 8 fantastic white star fighters
Victory - Expensive ship and will be rarely used now its armageddon level - but the ability to open up with the lighting cannon is always worht taking this ship.

Ships not worth taking
WSC-2 - cant understand why anyone would take this and not 2 white stars
White Star gunship - this has effectivley the same firepower as 2 WSC-2's so still reckon 4 regular white-stars are more worthwhile.

Would love feedback from other ISA players on this to convince me otherwise

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Re: White Star fleet

Postby Burger » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:00 am

ubertechie wrote:White stars - unchanged in Armageddon and still great ships
Unchanged from the Tourney PDF, yeah. Different from SFOS...
ubertechie wrote:Victory - Expensive ship and will be rarely used now its armageddon level - but the ability to open up with the lighting cannon is always worht taking this ship.
Note that other weapons cannot be fired the same turn as the lightning cannon, now. And its put down to 20" range. Kinda sucks. 10AD is nice though!
ubertechie wrote:WSC-2 - cant understand why anyone would take this and not 2 white stars
Dodge 3+ rather than 4+, and long range missiles. WSC-2 is actually worth considering now.
ubertechie wrote:White Star gunship - this has effectivley the same firepower as 2 WSC-2's so still reckon 4 regular white-stars are more worthwhile.
Yeah gunship absolutely sucks. 15 damage points, OK so it has Adaptive Armour, that makes it up to 30 damage. Dodge 5+, that makes it up to 45 damage. With hull 5, its far too weak for a War ship. White Star Gunship, and Liati, IMO should both be Battle.

Sheridan On A White Star is pretty good (if he can kill all the snakes first).
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Postby ubertechie » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:11 am

Oops - missed that little bit of text in the FAQ on page 91 about the Whitestars being dodge 4+ now as per the tourny stats plus the loss of the AD and precise on the molecular pulsar hurts the White Star quite a lot and as you say makes the WSC-2 more of a valid choice - certainly 2 of them provide a much better choice than a white star gunship and the carrier hasnt got a lot less fire power whilst boasting both better damage and crew scores (the same dodge, AA, and self-repairing values) plus it carriers 8 white star fighters which can kick out an incredible amount of damage and can all also be used as AJP bombs

White Star Carrier = B52 with 8 cruise missiles ?

also the gunship has 24 damage and 15 crew - anyone for a boarding action - if the gunship had been made battle as you suggest and effectivley replaced the WSC-2 then i think the list would feel more complete - may get some gunship minis though and use them as WSC-2's just for looks
Last edited by ubertechie on Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Burger » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:20 am

ubertechie wrote:8 white star fighters which can kick out an incredible amount of damage and can all also be used as AJP bombs
Nope, aux craft can't Initiate Jump Point! Plus only 1 of them can be deployed initially, and can't launch more while in hyperspace.
ubertechie wrote:also the gunship has 24 damage and 15 crew
Oh yeah my mistake, I was talking about crew not damage.
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Postby ubertechie » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:35 am

New it sounded to good with the carrier :-)
oh well still thoose 8 whitestar fighters look like they are more than capable of holding their own especially paired with a nials from White stars / white Star 2's
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Postby katadder » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:48 pm

you can have 2 whitestar fighters launched as the carrier is a fleet carrier :) which gives the whitestar fighters a 5+ save after they fail their dodge and also makes all whitestar fighters and nials the equivalent of dogfight +5 (+3, ISA crews, fleet carrier bonus) so they are the best dogfighters in the game now.

the gunship actually isnt too bad a vessel on further looks, definately would have benefitted being at battle level though but with AA, dodge and self repair 1d6 plus a fair amount of speed manouvrability and firepower could be quite dangerous. the liati is far worse as it doesnt get the AA or self repair and its longest range is 12", plus its criplped after 18 damage unlike the WS gunship which has to take 19 (38 for AA).
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Postby ubertechie » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:51 pm

So glad i have ordered 2 white star carriers
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Postby Burger » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:11 pm

katadder wrote:the liati is far worse as it doesnt get the AA or self repair and its longest range is 12", plus its criplped after 18 damage unlike the WS gunship which has to take 19 (38 for AA).
WS gunship is adrift after 15 crew are killed (30 for AA). There is no self-repair for crew..... new special order required, "Turn on the cloning vats!"
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Postby ubertechie » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:16 pm

Or alternativley - hide in the escape pods :-)
Just think its a real shame that they have done a really good job on the carrier in creating a vessel that has a good compliment of fighters and supports them well and can deliver them quickly into the midst of a fight and contribute something usefull itself.
Whereas the gunship just feels a bit 'wet' by comparison and certainly not comparable to 3 whitestars or 2 white star 2's
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Postby Burger » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:18 pm

ubertechie wrote:Whereas the gunship just feels a bit 'wet' by comparison and certainly not comparable to 3 whitestars or 2 white star 2's
Or 1x WS2 and 2x WS, if its a War level battle...
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Postby Pauly_D » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:20 pm

The Whitestar Gunship is a lot better in bigger scenarios
for example if you play a 5 point Armageddeon game (bonus points for actually finishing it within a few days) then Whitestars just get brushed aside by the very powerful Armageddeon PL ships (or worse the Ancients), at that level their only use is Priority sinks and they do a little extra damage, that is where you need the Whitestar Gunship to do enough damage on its own
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Postby katadder » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:20 pm

true the liati has to lose 40 crew or 20 if on crippled the computer turns off but with only a 12" range on any of its guns it wont take much. think they are well suited to each other but my feeling is the WS will come out on top of the engagement but then neitehr of them are any good against other warships and the Liati is in no way gonna ever be chosen over an octurion.
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Postby Burger » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:21 pm

Pauly_D wrote:The Whitestar Gunship is a lot better in bigger scenarios
for example if you play a 5 point Armageddeon game
Heh... 5x VCD 4tw :lol:
Although, a Gunship and 2x WS2 might be tempting for 1 point...
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Postby ubertechie » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:25 pm

or even 10 white star carriers - thats 80 flights of white star fighter - all firing first and all with 3AD of AP,DD,Precise will result in more than a few criticals - but the thought of being able to field all 4 of my VSD's in one game sounds amusing
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Postby Evilmerlin » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:16 pm

I wonder how a 5pt Raid fleet of just the Carrier and a White Star would work. Damn that Carrier being War level!
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Postby Pauly_D » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:25 pm

Evilmerlin wrote:I wonder how a 5pt Raid fleet of just the Carrier and a White Star would work. Damn that Carrier being War level!
not brilliantly is the answer, since you only have 2 ships you dont get your initiative sinks and once the normal white star goes the carrier isn't far behind it in finding an early grave
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Postby ubertechie » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:39 pm

Has to have at least some chance though - the carrier can get all of its fighters out by turn 2 (2 initially, 4 on turn 1 , remainder on turn 2) and can still use SA's - as long as you can avoid the majority of incoming fire fo rthe first 2 turns then it should be a reasonable fight - especially against any ship with litle or no interceptors
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Postby Pauly_D » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:42 pm

yes but with only 2 ships you are running a little low on firepower and its harder to get round the back of an enemy fleet which is so important for an ISA fleet, the fighters are good but if your opponent has weapons in all arcs they are also easy vp's
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Postby Ripple » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:40 pm

Hardly low on firepower if the fighter stats are right. 3 AD DD with Precise? Firing first every time regardless of initiative, well aside from the other guys fighters which you will simply sweep aside.

Really do not like that the Whitestar II is dodge 3+, it may in theory balance but is gonna feel like cheese. Expect to see the Minbari problem with folks just hating to see it on the table because they do not feel whether it lives or dies has anything to do with them, only the players luck.

In campaign we never saw a whitestar lost when it was 3+, over about seven games. And the whitestar player at the time had a bad habit of charging straight down you best warships throat, not manuevering at all. Guess we will see...

Victory still sounds like you might use the lightning canon for a few special occasions. 10 AD is a pretty big beam, it should kill just about anything it shoots out.

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Postby katadder » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:44 pm

except its other guns outgun the lightning canon in one round, let alone the 2 taht a lightning canon stops you firing them for.
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