Armageddon for the Dilgar

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captainsmirk
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Postby captainsmirk » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:20 am

But comparing the EA's technological advancement to the Minbari's is difficult as humanity gained a huge technological boost from contact with the Centauri, as far as we know the Minbari may have developed jump technology by themselves whilst we bought it from the Centauri.

As for the population levels we don't have much information on how many children the average Minbari family has, although as you say they probably don't have a population any bigger than the EA if not one which is smaller, my comment was more to say that we have no direct evidence to support how large the Minbari population is. And as we have already discussed it was probably more the tech thing which allowed the Minbari such dramatic advantages over the EA not vastly superior numbers.
Plus thinking about the experience thing I am not sure how much the combat experience the average EA soldier would have, the Dilgar war was nearly 20 years prior to the Minbari one. Thus only people in the upper ranks would have combat experience and then only from being in the lower ranks. Its not quite the same as comparing say the modern British army (which has a fair amount of recent combat experience) and the modern German army (which has never actually fought a war, although obviously like the Minbari its prederessors have).

Also the EA combat experience was against the Dilgar who are lower tech and have a completely different fighting style to the Minbari.

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Postby Voronesh » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:34 am

Captainsmirk

Youve hit the heart of the problem.

Why did EA win the Dilgar war? With Dilgar being represented as in ACTA?

I dont know. Cause they sure look high tech enough for me, or at least sufficiently overarmed.

Cruiser of the Dilgar, battle lvl.
Early EA, raid lvl.

Still they win.
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Postby captainsmirk » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:44 am

Well that's the problem you get with having to make the Dilgar competitive with the other fleets.

One idea would be to have two Dilgar fleet lists, not quite like the three EA lists, one which is matched specifically against the EA Early Years list for playing "Historical" scenarios, and then the present souped up version for competative play.

Personally I think it would also be fun to have a Earth-Minbari war list for the Minbari, a souped version of their present list for use against EA players who want a real challenge :lol:

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Postby Voronesh » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:17 pm

Ahh yes.

But when you switych back a few pages. There were quite a few people, who argued that Dilgar are correctly represented.....

And yes you are right, they cant be, cause early EA could not beat them and lose to Minbari at the same time. Well not perfectly the same time, because EA did get upogrades from that war.
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Postby WickedE » Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:43 pm

I'll tell you why we Kicked the crap out of the Dilgar and got boned by the Minbari. It's the same reason why the Abbai did decently against the Dilgar:
Interceptors.
The only Beam weaponry the Dilgar mounted was a small Laser on the Ochlavita. Add in the EA's High Hull score, plus Interceptors? That increases the survivability of the fleet in engagements when Half or more of the Dilgar shots get intercepted, whereas the EA + league Fleets just pour in firepower on the relatively unprotected Dilgar ships.

Come the Minbari war, however, Interceptors are....useless.
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Postby Voronesh » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:26 pm

Valid point there.

If only Dilbgar did not have Pulsars.

And EA had alot more interceptors.

Now generally the number of interceptors on early era EA ships will block the first 2 maybe 3 if your lucky shots. And then its down to 6+. And using Pulsars for that jub is simply too great.

And in the same way, Minbari only gain 2-3 Fusion Cannon hits over Dilgar.

Interceptors will be part of it, but not that much.
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Postby WickedE » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:28 pm

Those Pulsars are only effective CAFed, en-masse, or against low hulled ships. After that you have to rely on Bolters. After that you have torpedoes. After that....Nothing.
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Postby Voronesh » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:43 pm

Hrm. You are correct.

So yes Nova and Hyperion are Hull5.

I see 2 hits from the standard Pulsar battery. Enough to drain the Interceptor banks of those ships.

And then. CAFing with bolters is just plain evil.

Lets pick the Targrath a very effective ship ^^.

6 AD without anything. 2 hits. hyp out of interceptors.
12 AD AP,DD. 6 hits. Ill assume one hit is blocked. 5 hits for 10 damage.
4 AD AP,DD 2 hits. ill assume one hit is blocked for sheer luck. 2 damage.

A hyperion is half dead now. And it is a variant without lasers. Cause they got those during the Earth Minbari war (I think, there was talk of them being bought from the Narn...)

Targrath is faster, so lets assume the Dilgar player got a CAF for his speed advantage.

6 AD without anything. 3 hits. all blocked for ease.
12 AD AP,DD. 9 Hits. 1 is blocked. 16 damage.
4 AD AP,DD. 3 hits. Maybe one is blocked. 4-6 damage.

20 to 22 damage. Hyperion is crippled. With the Dilgar crit goodieness, a hyperion might even be dead.

Yes i am assuming much with the Targrath, but 12" base speed gives you 18" at APTE. And even with Caf the firepower is good.

Interceptors are good, but not that good. As a Narn i prefer extra hull plating over fancy interceptors.
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Postby WickedE » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:10 pm

Obiously the Dilgar were crappy at shooting dice, whereas the Humans have had centuries of practice. :lol:
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Postby TenaciousB » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:19 am

*Bump - still no new Dilgar ships.
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Postby H » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:50 am

TenaciousB wrote:*Bump - still no new Dilgar ships.
you may be flogging an incredibly dead horse... HOWEVER, you DID get the Ghosts of Omelos which were several new ships, giving the Dilgar fleet beam technology. thats was quite an upgrade.
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Postby TenaciousB » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:51 am

hiffano wrote:
TenaciousB wrote:*Bump - still no new Dilgar ships.
you may be flogging an incredibly dead horse... HOWEVER, you DID get the Ghosts of Omelos which were several new ships, giving the Dilgar fleet beam technology. thats was quite an upgrade.
Not flogging anything dead - we were told there were new ships within a few months, and there's still no sign of em.
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Postby thePirv » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:52 am

Ghost of Omelos gives the Raiders new ships. And they're not tourney legal either. So the Dilgar are still lacking in terms of new content. Unfortunately.
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Postby H » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:54 am

thePirv wrote:Ghost of Omelos gives the Raiders new ships. And they're not tourney legal either. So the Dilgar are still lacking in terms of new content. Unfortunately.
ah, I thought you could use them as new age Dilgar, but meh, my bad.

If you want something doing, get a BIG group of dilgar players, and whine like crap. Seems to work.
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TenaciousB
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Postby TenaciousB » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:01 am

Don't think there are many of us - we seem to be as popular as a dose of an std lol.

DILGAR PLAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!!!!!!!! :twisted:
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Postby Burger » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:03 am

I heard rumours of a large group of Dilgar and Drakh players descending on Mongoose HQ sometime in the next few days. I'll see if I can go past, and get some photos for ya ;)
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Postby Greg Smith » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:05 am

Actually, there was no time frame given.
thePirv wrote: Reply from Matt...

I was just wondering if you could explain the decision to leave the Drakh and Dilgar out of the forthcoming Armageddon book. I realise that neither of these races is a major component of the ACTA game, but i still feel that the people who play these races have been unfairly left out.
Hi there,

It is precisely because they are new races that they were not included - we prefer for new fleets to have time to 'bed down' and for people to get used to them before we launch more ships.
As a result, it means that players of these races must wait at least a year before we will be brought into line with the other races in the game. What is the point in this.
You might wait a lot less than a year - we are planning to release new ships via Signs & Portents, collating their stats into a book every Summer. In this way, we can support the game every month, rather than cramming everything into the middle fo the year as we do now.
I feel that Mongoose Publishing has let both myself and several other members of the ACTA community down in not supporting these newly released races.
It is unlikely that the Dilgar will get an Armageddon ship (no more than Early Years EA would). However, both the Dilgar and the Drakh clearly have a great deal of scope for expansion, and we will happily listen to any requests people have for them.

Hope that helps!
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Postby H » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:07 am

Why not design a couple of Dilgar ships, with some backstory and maybe a scenario for them, and submit it to S+P? I know this might not lead anywhere from personal experiance, but it "might" just make it, after all, Greg has done quite a lot of Dilgar stuff, so it's obviously fairly popular.
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Postby TenaciousB » Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:04 pm

I can't remember who it was (think it was SNJ) who had a really good idea for a ship, and possibly a Super Heavy Bolter weapon.

My only contribution would be for an Armageddon/War Level ship to have a bolter weapon called a Super Heavy Bolter, created by adding 5 inches and SAP to the normal Heavy Bolter as well as maybe taking a few AD off as well.
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Postby H » Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:05 pm

TenaciousB wrote:I can't remember who it was (think it was SNJ) who had a really good idea for a ship, and possibly a Super Heavy Bolter weapon.

My only contribution would be for an Armageddon/War Level ship to have a bolter weapon called a Super Heavy Bolter, created by adding 5 inches and SAP to the normal Heavy Bolter as well as maybe taking a few AD off as well.
I would max out at war for Dilgar, they died ling before the tecnology became available for an armageddon ship (excusing the Ancients of course :-))
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