I miss Scip...

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
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Lieutenant Rasczak
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:48 pm

MaxSteiner wrote:Lol I thought the exact same thing when I saw it.
Washing flat surfaces suprisingly doesnt bring out any more detail... I wonder why it was done... maybe to show how smooth it is?
There's a miscast on the bottom right corner as well (The cresecent). :D
I wonder if this is just an attempt to use up whats left of the pewter?

On the plus side they gotta be better than the plastic ones!
Du remember in the 'old days' when GW used to do it to plastics?

Like thats ever going to work!
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Postby roughneck GIR » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:52 pm

Lieutenant Rasczak wrote:
rico's roughnecks wrote: Actually That one big one is definatly from a knife...
If its from a knife thats worse Lol!

Its definitely not a casting problem then!
For all we know it could've been an assasination by an EE assasin who left his mark, and erm... ink :lol:
Wohoo! I'm a non-com. Wait a second, this isn't marathon, who redirected me??!?
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Postby ScipioAmericanus » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:52 pm

Lieutenant Rasczak wrote:
rico's roughnecks wrote: Actually That one big one is definatly from a knife...
If its from a knife thats worse Lol!

Its definitely not a casting problem then!
It's casting, LT, face it.

No knife has ever touched it, it's casting flaws. I've worked with the casting of superalloys enough to recognize a mis-cast when I see one. More likely than not, the mold has voids in it that allow air in. Or the pour was too cold.

The black is most likely a residue from pre-cast mold release, or a spray into the mold prior to casting, not a paint wash (unless someone was trying to cover things up). If the pour was too cold, the mold release would likely puddle rather than evaporate as it should.
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:18 am

ScipioAmericanus wrote:
Lieutenant Rasczak wrote:
rico's roughnecks wrote: Actually That one big one is definatly from a knife...
If its from a knife thats worse Lol!

Its definitely not a casting problem then!
It's casting, LT, face it.

No knife has ever touched it, it's casting flaws. I've worked with the casting of superalloys enough to recognize a mis-cast when I see one. More likely than not, the mold has voids in it that allow air in. Or the pour was too cold.

The black is most likely a residue from pre-cast mold release, or a spray into the mold prior to casting, not a paint wash (unless someone was trying to cover things up). If the pour was too cold, the mold release would likely puddle rather than evaporate as it should.
I've been at my friend Nigels workshop all night, we've been spinning Ancient Greeks. I know what casting flaws look like, I done casting (both amatuer and professional) off and on for 23 years, Nigel has 30 years experience and he agrees - its a wash.

Even Max (who never agrees with me usually) can see it is.

You are a nice chap Scipio, but a lot of your posts are turning into quite underhand attempts at deconstruction where Mongoose are concerned.

Why else would you put that picture up, you admit its not really got a place here, other than to stir things up.

Not cool buddy.
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Postby Doctor Warlock » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:25 am

ScipioAmericanus wrote:It's casting, LT, face it.

No knife has ever touched it, it's casting flaws. I've worked with the casting of superalloys enough to recognize a mis-cast when I see one. More likely than not, the mold has voids in it that allow air in. Or the pour was too cold.

The black is most likely a residue from pre-cast mold release, or a spray into the mold prior to casting, not a paint wash (unless someone was trying to cover things up). If the pour was too cold, the mold release would likely puddle rather than evaporate as it should.
First of all, you didn't take the picture did you? How do you know for certain no knife ever touched it.

Secondly, if its one of the new metal flying bases for ACTA - its a White Metal Cast!

The only release agents used in that casting process are powders not liquids.

If you pour hot metal into a silicon/galvanised rubber mold with liquid in it - you get steam produced and the mold is forced apart - leaving you with nothing as the metal doesn't actually end up in the mold (it escapes).

Considering your level of experience, you should know that.

Actually having black washed models for catalogue pictures, I can assure you thats a black wash

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Postby MaxSteiner » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:45 am

Huh don't just assume I agree, what would people think if word got out? My reputation would be ruined :D
I agree that it probably is a blackwash (albeit a completly ill advised one flying in the face of convention and reason) but I can see at least three casting flaws with an untrained eye and its not as if the company they've been using for metals has a spotless record on that count.
That said they're no worse than Ral Partha Europes lead 20mm bases (Although those are pretty bad too...)

Scipio posting a photo of one of the final Mongoose metal releases (Even if it is only a base) doesn't seem that out of place to me, as it is with regards to the poor casting seen throughout the SST range, raising the fear that the quality control may still be lagging behind other companies.
At the very least, even if it is a perfectly cast base they should have a word with the bloke taking the photo's cause it isn't very flattering. (Even more so since I was loking at Privateer Press' website today, spining minature pictures are the best thing ever!)

This forums getting a bit nasty these days though isn't? No one in particular just the overall mood of the place...
I much prefered it when it was just me saying the models were rubbish and had everyone slagging me off... :roll:
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:05 am

The overall mood/tone of almost every section of the Forums is one of gloom and doom.

I have to take little breaks, its a real bring down.

Not just people being negative about Mongoose, just generally the whole feel is just a downer.
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Postby ScipioAmericanus » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:11 am

Lieutenant Rasczak wrote:
I've been at my friend Nigels workshop all night, we've been spinning Ancient Greeks. I know what casting flaws look like, I done casting (both amatuer and professional) off and on for 23 years, Nigel has 30 years experience and he agrees - its a wash.

Even Max (who never agrees with me usually) can see it is.

You are a nice chap Scipio, but a lot of your posts are turning into quite underhand attempts at deconstruction where Mongoose are concerned.

Why else would you put that picture up, you admit its not really got a place here, other than to stir things up.

Not cool buddy.
As far as the casting, we'll just have to agree to disagree: my experience is industrial, yours seems to be a combination of industrial and small-scale. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong.

Just one question: if a wash was indeed applied, why? And why wasn't it a better one?

The obvious flaws in the casting seem to be ignored in favor of the "wash issue." So be it. My point is this: is THIS a product MGP should show to the world and expect people to pay for?

No, I'm not trying to "stir things up" I'm making what I consider to be very VALID points: if the emphasis on quality doesn't improve, and very quickly, there will be NO SST. Matt giving platitudes in a post that he actually started by talking about another game entirely (go check it out again) just doesn't make it.

Behold! The voice of one crying in the wilderness!

I am not trying to undermine MGP!!!!! They were incredibly decent to me (Ian in particular). So don't you even DARE to say that!!!!!
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:19 am

ScipioAmericanus wrote: No, I'm not trying to "stir things up" I'm making what I consider to be very VALID points: if the emphasis on quality doesn't improve, and very quickly, there will be NO SST. Matt giving platitudes in a post that he actually started by talking about another game entirely (go check it out again) just doesn't make it.

Behold! The voice of one crying in the wilderness!

I am not trying to undermine MGP!!!!! They were incredibly decent to me (Ian in particular). So don't you even DARE to say that!!!!!

Possibly, BUT - before you 'lost the faith' your posts were never this negative. Even the critical ones had a positive spin to them.

I wasn't trying to impune you, it was just an observation.
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Postby Doctor Warlock » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:48 am

ScipioAmericanus wrote:I am not trying to undermine MGP!!!!! They were incredibly decent to me (Ian in particular). So don't you even DARE to say that!!!!!
No point in getting irate, the Lt. has a point.

Check out the negativity of the tone of your recent posts -

ScipioAmericanus wrote:So..if this is JUST A GAME, then why should a consumer even bother to purchase any minis? Let alone pre-painted, pseudo accurate ones? Why not just use paper cut-outs?
And you do admit -
ScipioAmericanus wrote:While the following isn't immediately germane to SST, nevertheless I think it speaks volumes about my concerns with MGP and the direction SST is going.
Which is so obviousley a dig (whether you intended it to be or not) its spooky.
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Postby ScipioAmericanus » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:52 am

Doctor Warlock wrote:
ScipioAmericanus wrote:I am not trying to undermine MGP!!!!! They were incredibly decent to me (Ian in particular). So don't you even DARE to say that!!!!!
No point in getting irate, the Lt. has a point.

Check out the negativity of the tone of your recent posts -

ScipioAmericanus wrote:So..if this is JUST A GAME, then why should a consumer even bother to purchase any minis? Let alone pre-painted, pseudo accurate ones? Why not just use paper cut-outs?
And you do admit -
ScipioAmericanus wrote:While the following isn't immediately germane to SST, nevertheless I think it speaks volumes about my concerns with MGP and the direction SST is going.
Which is so obviousley a dig (whether you intended it to be or not) its spooky.
If you consider it "spooky" then that's certainly your opinion. And my opinion is just as valid as yours.
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Still?

Postby Mac V » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:53 am

Everyone still missing this guy? :P
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Postby Billy Bunter » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:01 am

ScipioAmericanus wrote:If you consider it "spooky" then that's certainly your opinion. And my opinion is just as valid as yours.
But now you're being defensive, which is generally a good sign of a guilty conscience . . . . .
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Postby CudaHP » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:27 am

Scipio,
Besides all the basic tenor of your posts lately, your constant carping on your expertise re: casting doesn't wash.

For one thing most of what you see in the picture you blew up to three or four times the posted size is clearly an ill advised ink wash. One very minor blemish on 160 degree angle of the edge, one possible minor 1/4" flaw on the top, actually difficult to be sure because of the large droplet of accumulated ink wash at that point.

If you want a good quality photograph of the detail structure of a miniature you first prime then ink wash so the ink flows properly and does its job of contrasting, secondly you use a really good macro lens on f32 or f64 tripod mounted well backlit with a good umbrella diffusor for front light to kill unwanted highlights.

Been doing both casting and photography up to and including a little photomicrography for over 35 years. Not a pro at photography, but I have a feeling as a "businessman" you hired your casting done rather than doing it yourself and that is not the same thing

I can get scars on a lead alloy base similar to the approx. 1/4 inch one you chose as the worst example by running my thumbnail across it. That is a approx. 60mm dia. base isn't it??

Since you decided you are most distressed with MGP for whatever reason, including your I am leaving thread, I have seen no post by you that does not express negativity toward Mongoose and their policies.

I recognize that as with most human businesses and institutions Mongoose is not perfect, but I am equally honest about myself and recognize that I am very, even extremely far from perfection.

I have waited until you have accumulated approx. thirty plus increasingly negative post before saying this in a post.

I feel you should take a serious look at your own motivations for this whole series of posts, it truly appears to be for your own personal gratification. That is really too bad because by your own statements you claim to be one of the "Old Timer" staunch supporters without which four books you have mentioned would not have been made. You have done nice work on the Unit Insignias etc. but . . . .

It appears you have lost your faith in Mongoose. Really too bad.
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Postby ScipioAmericanus » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:34 am

Lieutenant Rasczak wrote:
ScipioAmericanus wrote: No, I'm not trying to "stir things up" I'm making what I consider to be very VALID points: if the emphasis on quality doesn't improve, and very quickly, there will be NO SST. Matt giving platitudes in a post that he actually started by talking about another game entirely (go check it out again) just doesn't make it.

Behold! The voice of one crying in the wilderness!

I am not trying to undermine MGP!!!!! They were incredibly decent to me (Ian in particular). So don't you even DARE to say that!!!!!

Possibly, BUT - before you 'lost the faith' your posts were never this negative. Even the critical ones had a positive spin to them.

I wasn't trying to impune you, it was just an observation.
LT:

WHY did I "lose the faith?"

Because I don't believe in MGP's promises anymore.

And if any of you recently-joined fan-boys want to flame me again, go ahead. I'll be interested to see what you have contributed to SST. If you haven't been with SST since launch, then you have nothing to bring to the party in this particular conversation. *sets button to Fan-Boy Ignore* Go away. Shew. Scat. Be gone.

LT, MGP is taking SST in a direction that I whole-heartedly believe will kill it. MGP seems to be reactive rather than proactive. SST COULD have been the 40K killer: the rules had the potential, certainly. The rules won at Origins after all!

Too many crappy releases. SST figs became a joke. To those of us (I think you are one) that were out there trying to get enthusiasm for the game, the following must have been a stunner:

"There have also been some things that we have not been too happy with. The Skinnies, for example, have an incoherent overall feel, which is not what we intended for that army, and there are individual models that were simply not good enough for the modern market. "

So...let me get this straight. Somebody other than MGP did the Skinnies? It's somebody else's fault?

IF THE MODELS WEREN'T GOOD ENOUGH, THEN WHY DID YOU RELEASE THEM??????

THAT'S the reason, in a nutshell, that I bailed: that philosophy.

MGP had some big plans that I can't talk about, but then they pulled the rug out from under a lot of us.

Regards.
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Postby CudaHP » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:48 am

My aren't you becoming ever more arrogant and obnoxious Scipio

You seem to think that if we weren't there on day one we have no right to express our opinions about your elitist, arrogacious negativity and attitudes.

If you hate MGP so much then why not just phade away instead of injecting your bitterness into these forums. By the way that is a correct spelling Skippy phade away.

I truly believe you are or have already destroyed most of your credibility with a lot of Forum Members.
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Postby ScipioAmericanus » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:14 am

CudaHP wrote:My aren't you becoming ever more arrogant and obnoxious Scipio

You seem to think that if we weren't there on day one we have no right to express our opinions about your elitist, arrogacious negativity and attitudes.

If you hate MGP so much then why not just phade away instead of injecting your bitterness into these forums. By the way that is a correct spelling Skippy phade away.

I truly believe you are or have already destroyed most of your credibility with a lot of Forum Members.
Arrogant? Obnoxious? Elitist?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've NEVER descended to name-calling.

Or maybe I just have an opinion that differs from yours, Sunshine.

I have every right to express my opinion, and I will continue to exercise that right.

By the way...how many SST publications have YOU been in????

Can't hear that. What? Say again? Zero?

My credibility remains intact, and based on the number of PM's I get from FRIENDS ON THIS FORUM maybe you'd better just re-think this post.

I thought better of ya.

At the end of the day, it IS a public forum. Deal with it.
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:26 am

ScipioAmericanus wrote:WHY did I "lose the faith?"
You know better than me, and only you can truly be honest with yourself as to your current motivations.
ScipioAmericanus wrote:Because I don't believe in MGP's promises anymore.
Again, that is your choice (however wrong I feel it may be) - but to suddenly about face the way you did, there has to be a lot more depth to it than you are admitting, otherwise you just come over as very shallow.
ScipioAmericanus wrote:And if any of you recently-joined fan-boys want to flame me again, go ahead. I'll be interested to see what you have contributed to SST. If you haven't been with SST since launch, then you have nothing to bring to the party in this particular conversation. *sets button to Fan-Boy Ignore* Go away. Shew. Scat. Be gone.
Now, you've pulled the "I am more important and professional than you" card WAY too many times now. Ok you've given a lot to SST - but that only gives you weight WHILST you are still actively involved (which you admit - you aren't anymore). You are going against previous comments about the validity of peoples opinions, by setting yours above other peoples. "If you haven't been with SST since the launch etc" is just petty and arrogant. I've been into SST since its release (before if you count my 35 year passion for Starship Troopers) and I don't particularly think myself more important than someone who has just discovered it (if fact I envy them a little, as they are experiencing it with new and excited eyes).
ScipioAmericanus wrote:LT, MGP is taking SST in a direction that I whole-heartedly believe will kill it. MGP seems to be reactive rather than proactive. SST COULD have been the 40K killer: the rules had the potential, certainly. The rules won at Origins after all!
The EE are going to be the 40k killer, not another game or company. They are their own worst enemy. You are so wrong about SST's future, this is a good thing that Mongoose are doing.
ScipioAmericanus wrote:Too many crappy releases. SST figs became a joke. To those of us (I think you are one) that were out there trying to get enthusiasm for the game, the following must have been a stunner:
There have been problems sure, all companies make mistakes. But none will listen and develop along guidelines taken from the Fans like Mongoose do. I have already recruited 10 'potential' SST gamers, who plan to buy into it big time with the onset of the pre-painteds. These are professional people like your good self. They have a shed load of cash to throw at the hobby, but less time than they would like - so pre-painteds are a godsend to them.
ScipioAmericanus wrote:"There have also been some things that we have not been too happy with. The Skinnies, for example, have an incoherent overall feel, which is not what we intended for that army, and there are individual models that were simply not good enough for the modern market. "
Some of the Skinnies yes, I will agree could have been excecuted better. As we know, they are being redone for SST EVO.
ScipioAmericanus wrote:IF THE MODELS WEREN'T GOOD ENOUGH, THEN WHY DID YOU RELEASE THEM??????\
Because mistakes happen, and they are going to rectify them. More power to Mongoose, they are willing to admit failiures and drive forward.
ScipioAmericanus wrote:THAT'S the reason, in a nutshell, that I bailed: that philosophy.
Then you just come over as more than a little shallow. "When the going gets tough, the weak go and stand in the corner and have a little winge".
ScipioAmericanus wrote:MGP had some big plans that I can't talk about, but then they pulled the rug out from under a lot of us.
Now, you see that doesn't rub. How does anyone know thats the truth. You can't tell us, because its secret - Hmmmmmmmm . . . . . . . . . .
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Postby MaxSteiner » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:37 am

CudaHP wrote: I have carefully avoided calling anyone names
CudaHP wrote:My aren't you becoming ever more arrogant and obnoxious Scipio
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Ok seriously now, don't you guys think that even the most understanding bloke in the world is going to act a little riled up if a bunch of poeple he's never even heard of are jumping on a band wagon and slatting him?
Don't you think that someone who put in a lot of work to the system is going to get ever more pissed of at people getting nasty because he's expressed a divergant point of view?
The overwhelming opinion I (And plenty of others it now seems) see expressed on this forum is "If you don't like it piss off", which is complete arse.
If you can't handle dissent in any other manner than that it really is a sad day for the game as whole.

If someones clearly angry about something don't keep sniping at them underhandidly till they explode, then try and take the moral high ground, it's pathetic, and this is coming from me! (At least I have the decency to follow clearly defined rules as laid out in the Trolls Charter: sub-section B paragraph 4)
Last edited by MaxSteiner on Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby derek » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:40 am

CudaHP wrote:My aren't you becoming ever more arrogant and obnoxious Scipio
Image

G'Day

Sorry guys all this whipping them out and banging them on the table about who knows what about casting and who did what to the base is really beside the point. Look at the picture, it's crap. If it was me paying for Mongoose I wouldn't have that up as an example of one of my products I want people to buy.

The point is this, after doing a complete out of the blue turnabout, Mongoose are now asking everyone to wait 8 months and promising that all problems including QC will be fixed. Now look at the image and remember that Mongoose promised to fix this :roll:

Cheers

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