Starship Troopers Evolution

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
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Rules

Postby Mac V » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:11 pm

2 pages of rules scares me, but I've learned not to bitch about them until you actually get to try them. So, I'm looking forward to seeing them.
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Postby Bluefool » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:12 pm

mthomason wrote:
Well, think back to the days when everything was metal and there were no plastic kits for wargaming. What did we do back then? :) Seriously, I still know people who think plastic kits are the worst thing that ever hit wargaming because it took all the fun out of cutting up metals for conversions :shock:
Well, we complained bittery and at great length, frequently over lots of caffine and pizza....which often broke out into a game...

I was a solid metal is the only way person until the quality of the plastics seemed to skyrocket in the mid 90's. These days, I still like the metal since they are harder to knock over, but I like the flexibility of plastic kits...*sniff* which I'll miss.
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Re: Rules

Postby mthomason » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:15 pm

Mac V wrote:2 pages of rules scares me, but I've learned not to bitch about them until you actually get to try them. So, I'm looking forward to seeing them.
It's more like four (two sides of A3, four of A4/Letter). I hope nobody gets put off now it's twice the number of pages :D
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Postby tneva82 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:16 pm

CmdrKiley wrote: but I really don't want to pay for the painting and assembly,
Well lucky you, you would pay same as unassembled and unpainted model :D
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Postby mthomason » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:17 pm

Bluefool wrote: I was a solid metal is the only way person until the quality of the plastics seemed to skyrocket in the mid 90's. These days, I still like the metal since they are harder to knock over


Well, unless they're metal minis on plastic flying stands :D

I still plan lots of conversions with both the new BF Evo and SST minis. Should be fun starting "from scratch" with new materials and nobody to ask for hints, too... Lots of new things to try out!
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Postby Lane Shutt » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:19 pm

Games&Theory wrote:
Howabout: The new rules seem to be more of cleared up version of current SST rather than complete overhaul so your favourite game isn't going to change radically(though seems like we get suppression! About frigging time!).[/quote]

New rules that were based on all the playtesting beta-players have been doing these last several months...and those same folks now have to re-purchase the rules after less than 2 years.


The bottom line is that anybody who supported the game pre-SST:Evo is being given short shrift because this announcement effectively ended that game...gloss over it however you like.

[/quote]


Did you completely ignore previous comments about support for the existing rules?

Matthew said they will continue to support the old rule set. When a new army comes out they will have army lists for both rule sets. It's not like a certain other company that releases new models and units and say "if you want to use the new units you need the new edition of the rules".

Also since the new core rules will be in each box, and maybe even in s&P you do not have to buy a new rule book.

The present players are not being left out to dry. All the original models will be usable in the new rules. The existing players actually have an advantage since they will have a full array of units at the start.
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Postby mthomason » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:19 pm

tneva82 wrote:
CmdrKiley wrote: but I really don't want to pay for the painting and assembly,
Well lucky you, you would pay same as unassembled and unpainted model :D
The chances are unassembled and unpainted would actually cost more, as they would probably have to be ordered direct from Mongoose's parts service if they did them :)
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Postby Hiromoon » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:19 pm

Realistically, the only bad thing about this is all that work I did with the cards is pretty much useless now. Ah well. :)
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Postby mthomason » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:21 pm

Hiromoon wrote:Realistically, the only bad thing about this is all that work I did with the cards is pretty much useless now. Ah well. :)
I wouldn't say that. Odds are that's why Mongoose are going to be doing cards at all - you could say that if it wasn't for your innovation we would all still be stuck having to buy new army books every time there were new miniatures coming out :)

Thank you, Hiromoon, for introducing cards to SST in the first place!
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Re: Interesting

Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:22 pm

Mac V wrote:I was kind of wondering when a technology advance on the manufacturing side would change the mini market. I figured it wouldn't be too long after Mage Knight, D&D, etc. I also figured the next logical step would be non-collectable and integrated with terrain from the same manufacturer. Looks like tommorrow will be in 8 months. THing is, (not to anger anyone) I'm not overly hyped on the 2 games announced. I did say to a friend at a local con a few months back that SST would be much more interesting with pre-painted minis. I really hope it's not too long for WWII! Conan, or RQ would also be interesting...

HI Mac V!

I'm with you - HOW SEXY pre painted RQ Armies!

Lunar Troops, Duck Scouts, Dark Troll Raiding Parties MWHAHAHAHAHA!
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Postby Hiromoon » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:22 pm

I could...but it's really Mr. Sprange's loathing of carrying around umpty-million books. ;)
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Re: Interesting

Postby mthomason » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:23 pm

Lieutenant Rasczak wrote: Duck Scouts, Dark Troll Raiding Parties MWHAHAHAHAHA![/b][/color]
Now I want to see RQ minis done the same way. I'd just love to have a game of USMC vs Ducks. It'd be like hunting season accelerated 100 times.
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Re: Rules

Postby tneva82 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:23 pm

Mac V wrote:2 pages of rules scares me, but I've learned not to bitch about them until you actually get to try them. So, I'm looking forward to seeing them.
Well if they are going to release separate rulebook I doubt that's going to contain EVERY single rule :D Afterall if it does...Where's the need for separate rulebook?-)
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Postby Doghouse » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:25 pm

I have a couple of questions, please excuse me if I'm asking questions that have already been asked as there are an aweful lot of responses here to wade through. :)

Questions for Matt

1: Am I reading this right?
The main rules have been chopped down to 3 A4 sized pages but an SST Evo rulebook will be released alongside them. Army books are now a think of the past and each boxed set of PPM will come with a card giving stats as are found in the regular army books.

2: Given the removal of the army books will army background material be reduced to small snippets of information on the boxes/cards provided with the PPM?

3: How radical a change will there be to the main rules given that they sound like they've been chopped? Will the gameplay remain the same but with improvements to rules or has gameplay been streamlined?

4: Will S&P continue to support the existing SST game untill the release of SSTE or will there only be support for the forth coming STTE minis/rules?

5: Will production standards in the casting of the existing metal mins fall as the new PPM line grows and is it likely that we may see limited edition splash releases (limited ed MI officers for example) for the exisitng metal range?

6: Will the existing Skinny army book and background material be scrapped in favour of an overhaul or would it be just a case of new PPM minis?

7: How are the PPM models like Marauders being handled? Are they fixed one piece models or will there be some degree of posing possible?

8: Is there any possibility of an increase in open day style events/gamer meets to promote the SST/SSTE hobby and support us gamers.
I posted a question about a Mongoose gaming night but haven't really got an answer as to whether it's possible or not.
I've always felt kind of like I'm deep in Bug territory without any support from Fleet trying to get a game let alone get others to play it. :)
Maybe this would give us the means to arrange national tournies on both sides of the pond and strengthen the player network?
A "help us help you" sort of thing. :)


The STT PMM Revolution
I'm begining to get mixed feelings about all this now.
One hand I can see why people are angry about the change. A lot of use have campaigned to get people playing the original system and have shown our loyalty through continued purchases of SST products. The whole build up gave a lot of people high hopes about a possible means to save that system. Please don't be too harsh on us, it's just a little hard to digest right now and will take time to sink in. :)

We're all part of the same community here and I can understand there are naturally going to be opposing viewpoints on both sides of the arguement but hopefully we can get through this without dividing the forum into two camps. :)

On the other hand I can this from the other side of the coin. Let's face it SST is dying as support flags for our beloved game. But I am a little concerned like most that this will become a "kiddies game" but hopefully with a little support from us oldtimers this can be avoided.

Whilst I don't agree with people saying that you can just convert or (***shudders***) re-paint the new line I can see some good coming of the PPM minis. I mean no offence when i say this guys but by just saying that re-painting and converting PPM stuff is a little insulting to some of us hardcore modellers, although I realise it's not intended to be as such it can be seen as "a lump it or leave it" comment. :)

I for one will probably buy the new stuff and convert the existing for officers and larger bugs. Rank and file troops as PPM are fine and hopefully this'll allow me to flex some of my modelling ability.
I am like a lot of forum members concerned by the release dates though, maybe it'd have been better to do the Battlefields game first then turn over SST once it'd been decided whether it was a succes or not.
Only time will tell. :)
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Postby tneva82 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:26 pm

mthomason wrote:The chances are unassembled and unpainted would actually cost more, as they would probably have to be ordered direct from Mongoose's parts service if they did them :)
True but I pointed out as more of "no massive price hike expected".
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:33 pm

Hiromoon wrote:Realistically, the only bad thing about this is all that work I did with the cards is pretty much useless now. Ah well. :)
That is a bit of a bugger as they were class!
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Re: Interesting

Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:34 pm

mthomason wrote:
Lieutenant Rasczak wrote: Duck Scouts, Dark Troll Raiding Parties MWHAHAHAHAHA![/b][/color]
Now I want to see RQ minis done the same way. I'd just love to have a game of USMC vs Ducks. It'd be like hunting season accelerated 100 times.
THE DUCKS WOULD WIN :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Postby Lane Shutt » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:34 pm

MaxSteiner wrote:Never gonna be a kiddies game?!>!?!?!?! :evil: :evil:
They're rereleasing it prepainted, with the rules condensed to two sides of A4! How is that not gearing it towards a younger audience?!?!

I'm so glad my FLGS shut down, at least I wont have to be seen buying the stuff :D

Core Rules condensed onto 2 pages.

Much of the material will be shifted to the unit cards.

Then there is the advanced rules. BF/ SST Evolution is in no way a kiddie game. It adds options to the existing SST rules while streamlining them. Play will be just as tactically complex as it is now.
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Postby MongooseMatt » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:36 pm

Jellicoe wrote: Now that the announcement has been made and the post literally exploded with comments it is difficult to actually work out from 21 pages of posts what is actually going to happen. Msprange has certainly has had a difficult task holding the line today and is obviously very passionate about the new game.
Indeed. Think of it this way - if anyone reading this has played my games (CTA, Mighty Armies, SST), then you know the sort of games I like to play myself.

Evo, in either guise, is the best of the lot. Hand on my heart, I truly believe this.
Jellicoe wrote: But given the amount of time, hype etc.. that has gone into this there could have been a few more models on display and more actual information. I would have thought that the announcement would be a little more than a simple post snuck in late at night.
I agree. However, I had made a promise on these forums to make an announcement and so it was made.

We have had a taster today. Over the next few days, weeks and months, you'll be getting a lot more.
Jellicoe wrote: If you are seriously telling me that you don’t actually have the compositions of boxes sets roughly worked out then it seems that seems highly unconvincing given the effort you have put in.
Umm, nope, not saying that at all.

The Evo games have already consumed more man hours than any game we have yet produced. We have planned things in extreme detail, to an almost freakish degree :)
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Postby n815e » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:37 pm

I'm reminded of The Hudsucker Proxy. We've been shown a folded napkin with the initials SST on it and Matt saying "you know... for kids."
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