Starship Troopers Evolution

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
tneva82
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Postby tneva82 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:29 pm

irondog068 wrote:I think I still like my paint jobs a lot better and it has to be cheaper buying "raw" figures.
Like it should be able to buy simple power modulator for printer for cheaper price than whole frigging new printer?-)

It might not be so obvious that unpainted would be cheaper. Might be actually more expensive depending on the demand...

However if you can repaint over without problems(as Matt hopes is the case) then what's the problem really? You don't pay more than now(hopefully) so just buy and repaint. That's what I'm going to do.
Lawdog1700
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Postby Lawdog1700 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:29 pm

Unfortunately, I think this is the end of Starship Troopers. Hopefully Battlefield Evolution will have better support.
We're going in with the first wave! Just means more bugs for us to kill!

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Postby mthomason » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:31 pm

MaxSteiner wrote: Im sorry but can we drop the freaking 40k slating now?
I wasn't intending to slate 40K and apologize if it came over that way. I've stated in other threads (and obvioiusly I don't expect everyone to have read every single one of my posts and therefore understand my position) that I still play it, and like it, but I feel it plays completely differently to SST. I wouldn't even want to categorize the two together other than that they both use miniatures.

I could just have easily pointed out "the chess problem" being the fact the pieces have to stay in squares on the board. That isn't slating chess, that's just pointing out how it plays differently.
Games&Theory
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Postby Games&Theory » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:32 pm

SST:Beta

Someone used an analogy in this thread about SST: Evolution being more like a computer strategy game…how appropriate. I can’t help shaking this feeling that the game I’ve been playing and buying minis for the last 1.5 yrs has turned out to be just an extended beta test period for the REAL SST game. “Oh,“ I realized as I read more of the the announcement, ”the real SST comes out next year…”

Like many posters here, I’ve been a fan and supporter since before the game was even released. I bought a boxed set the very first day it was out at my FLGS and have accumulated two large armies and even picked up some of the less-crappy Skinnie models. Like most folks here, I gave feedback on game rules, bought rulebooks and army books…I did my part to help a fledgling game that deserved more attention stay afloat.

Now…in thanks for our efforts and investment (of time and money), the game is being rebooted. We’re back to frigging Cap troopers and Bugs???? Am I the only one who feels like people who invested in SST:Beta just got thrown under the bus?

I mean, it’s plain to see the early supporters served their purpose and are now being sacrificed in favor of hitting the bigger, untapped demographic. Never mind that we helped MGP refine the game by offering feedback and even bought them time through our purchases to cook up what honestly will be a more profitable business strategy.

It was an incredibly sad day for me to check in with great excitement about the “Big Announcement” only to stumble into this mighty slap to the face. In like, 2 mins, I went from excited to seriously thinking about calling it quits. It’s hard to reconcile the thought that I’d been trying to support a game that I love only to realize I was paying for the privilege to playtest SST: Beta and keep MGP in business while they cooked up a better business plan.

If I'm missing something, please let me know becuase as it stands, I feel like I was used and can barely think about this game right now I'm so mad.
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:35 pm

Lawdog1700 wrote:Unfortunately, I think this is the end of Starship Troopers. Hopefully Battlefield Evolution will have better support.

I think all you 'Negs' are wrong, I think it will be a breath of fresh air. The fact they are pre-painted and NOT collectable!

The amount of people on forums who would REALLY prefer if the Star Wars Mini's game wasn't collectable for instance.

The pre-painted has a wide ranging appeal, I look at it as an opportunity to field a painted army straight away - whilst adding 'touches' to the models to give uniqueness between games.

What a lot of you percieve as a disadvantage, I see as an advantage. You see one or two downsides, I see a LOT of positive things that will come out of this.

If some of you don't want to bother with it anymore, thats fair enough - because TBH I can see a LOT MORE new Gamers for me and my Son to Game with in the future.
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mthomason
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Postby mthomason » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:35 pm

Lawdog1700 wrote:Unfortunately, I think this is the end of Starship Troopers. Hopefully Battlefield Evolution will have better support.
I think it's more a new beginning. If you'd seen my own sales figures for SST compared to ACTA you'd think it was already bodybagged with a tag hanging off its toe. Something had to happen to shake it up a bit, and I believe that this decision is the right one - it places it as offering a serious alternative to "other games" (not wanting to upset anyone again by mentioning one by name) rather than looking like another clone. It places SST in a position to grab gamers on their first ever trip to the store - they can buy SST and play it today, or another game and play it in six months once they've finished painting it all.
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Postby MaxSteiner » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:36 pm

Yeah I was a little insulted by that "Better than 90%" remark, those Exo suits are done in four colours... :evil:
Now certainly the LAMI might be better than what 90% of the people who buy prepainted miniatures can do, but some camo stripes on a tank really shouldn't be beyond anyone...
Still as it stands they are better than 90% of the prepainted (Assuming they do end up looking like that).
Heres some Helldorado to prove other people are moving in the same direction though:
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tneva82
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Postby tneva82 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:37 pm

Games&Theory wrote:If I'm missing something, please let me know becuase as it stands, I feel like I was used and can barely think about this game right now I'm so mad.
Let's see...Howabout: Your old models are still going to be usefull? It's not like they are gone.

Howabout: You'll be getting new stuff early on with new stuff? Air assets have been mentioned to be on one of the first things to come out there(after initial 8).

Howabout: The new rules seem to be more of cleared up version of current SST rather than complete overhaul so your favourite game isn't going to change radically(though seems like we get suppression! About frigging time!).
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Postby mthomason » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:38 pm

tneva82 wrote:
Games&Theory wrote:If I'm missing something, please let me know becuase as it stands, I feel like I was used and can barely think about this game right now I'm so mad.
Let's see...Howabout: Your old models are still going to be usefull? It's not like they are gone.

Howabout: You'll be getting new stuff early on with new stuff? Air assets have been mentioned to be on one of the first things to come out there(after initial 8).

Howabout: The new rules seem to be more of cleared up version of current SST rather than complete overhaul so your favourite game isn't going to change radically(though seems like we get suppression! About frigging time!).
Howabout: you should find lots more players interested, and therefore more stores willing to support it rather than stuff a couple of boxes in a dark corner with "50% off" stickers.
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Postby Bluefool » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:38 pm

tneva82 wrote:[


However if you can repaint over without problems(as Matt hopes is the case) then what's the problem really? You don't pay more than now(hopefully) so just buy and repaint. That's what I'm going to do.
Multiple poses, custom figures (I can make a fed net reporter...I didn't have to wait for one..) and, for me, most importantly....griping about how hard they are to put together. You want to cut that great joy out of my life?? If I can't stick my fingers together with superglue...I just don't know what I'll do with myself.

For a lot of us, this is a modeling hobby as much as it is a gaming hobby. That part just sort of went away for SST...yeah, it's going to bring a lot more new blood for my gaming table, but I reserve the right to be sad about it.

I shall now go get my cane and shake it while yelling "Hey you kids! Get offa my lawn!"
Last edited by Bluefool on Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lawdog1700
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Postby Lawdog1700 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:39 pm

I think it will be very profitable for you guys, actually. I just think it is the end of SST. Battlefield Evolution will probably take off and do well as long as you continue to support it with missions and campaigns...not just models.

But, the fact that it is just more waiting for a new game is what will drive lots of the old timers off.
We're going in with the first wave! Just means more bugs for us to kill!

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Postby n815e » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:39 pm

I've been a loyal SST player ever since the game got released. I love the system. The models have been hit and miss, but I've been pushing my friends to play and trying to keep it going even in times of general doubt. My local games store has been keeping the line mostly because we've been telling the owner that the game will take off once people see how great it truly is.

No minis until April, prepainted/preassembled minis and simplified rules is a huge bomb to drop and one that doesn't really sit well with me. I know it's not going to sit well with my friends, either. I'm not sure right now, but I think there is the serious possibility I'm going to drop SST.

The rules are simply fantastic, as they are now. Taking that rulebook and condensing it into a two-sided sheet of paper is going to destroy it. I'm a modeller/painter, although I'm just average as a painter I still am proud of putting my own painted stuff on the table. Prepainted/preassembled minis turns me away. Can I paint over them? Sure. But as anyone who's ever repainted a mini can tell you, that stinks as an option.

People have been pushing Warmachine/Hordes on me and I keep telling them I want my money for SST, but I'm with a previous poster in saying that I think I'm switching systems. Sorry I can't be like most of the other posters here and say 'great news', I don't think it is and I feel screwed over by this.
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Postby mthomason » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:40 pm

Bluefool wrote:Multiple poses, custom figures (I can make a fed net reporter...I didn't have to wait for one..) and, for me, most importantly....griping about how hard they are to put together. You want to cut that great joy out of my life?? If I can't stick my figers together with superglue...I just don't know what I'll do with myself.
I can't see why you still can't do this... it's no different to back in the day when all we had were a few metal miniatures to play with and plastics didn't exist yet - we still found ways to convert them :)

The advantage is, this time you don't need to saw away for 15 minutes to seperate someone at the waist ;)
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:40 pm

mthomason wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Games&Theory wrote:If I'm missing something, please let me know becuase as it stands, I feel like I was used and can barely think about this game right now I'm so mad.
Let's see...Howabout: Your old models are still going to be usefull? It's not like they are gone.

Howabout: You'll be getting new stuff early on with new stuff? Air assets have been mentioned to be on one of the first things to come out there(after initial 8).

Howabout: The new rules seem to be more of cleared up version of current SST rather than complete overhaul so your favourite game isn't going to change radically(though seems like we get suppression! About frigging time!).
Howabout: you should find lots more players interested, and therefore more stores willing to support it rather than stuff a couple of boxes in a dark corner with "50% off" stickers.
Howabout - people stop spitting the dummy and see this for what it is - a step forward!
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Lieutenant Rasczak
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:43 pm

n815e wrote:Can I paint over them? Sure. But as anyone who's ever repainted a mini can tell you, that stinks as an option.
I have to heartily disagree with you there, after spending a lot of time over painting Miniatures for Games Conventions - rather than starting from scratch, Its a doddle and much easier and faster!
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tneva82
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Postby tneva82 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:46 pm

Bluefool wrote:Multiple poses, custom figures (I can make a fed net reporter...I didn't have to wait for one..) and, for me, most importantly....griping about how hard they are to put together. You want to cut that great joy out of my life?? If I can't stick my fingers together with superglue...I just don't know what I'll do with myself.
Lol. They are PLASTIC. Bloody easy to convert up.

Oh and I can live without having to suffer pain it takes to assemble tanker or CAP troopper and instead do what conversions I want and paint it fast rather than first spending hours doing the basic assembly.
That part just sort of went away for SST
Only if you decide it went away...If you decide it did not then it did not go away. It's up to what mentality you want to bring along.
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Postby MaxSteiner » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:49 pm

I hope we don't have a void sittuation on our hands, thats been through so many changes in direction that its never been a serious option, despite one or two nice things about it...
And its not a step forward till it happens to be honest is it? Its a promising new direction surely, but until we actually see something on the shop shelves its difficult to get behind it... I really wanted some Forth this year... And some skyhooks too :cry:
I have been thinking though, I can assume that Mongoose must have had some warning about this (I doubt they could get to this stage in the ten days since this announcement from scratch), how long ago was this seriously considered an option for SST? Because I was expecting to see prepainted Conan stuff really...
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Postby Lawdog1700 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:51 pm

I think it will be very profitable for you guys, actually. I just think it is the end of SST. Battlefield Evolution will probably take off and do well as long as you continue to support it with missions and campaigns...not just models.

But, the fact that it is just more waiting for a new game is what will drive lots of the old timers off.
We're going in with the first wave! Just means more bugs for us to kill!

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Postby MaxSteiner » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:54 pm

Thats true theres a lot of exciting stuff out there these days!
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Postby mthomason » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:54 pm

I think there will be those who liked this idea from the beginning, those who get talked over/think about it and realise it'll work, and finally those who cannot accept the idea.

I can understand a lot of the final group wanting to vent their anger, and I'm pretty certain Mongoose were prepared for a degree of backlash as well - it would be silly to assume that everyone is going to love the idea of having things turned on their head.

I also understand also that something had to be done about SST - the number of stores deciding not to carrying it any more meant there was a more fundamental problem to be solved that releasing a few extra models wasn't going to fix.

I truly believe the game could not be "saved" by just going in the way it has been. It might be perfect for a few people, but not enough to make it work.

I think those of us who truly like the idea should show a bit of patience with those that do not, and try and help them through their questions. Negative feelings are going to happen, inevitably, and people of course want to state those feelings here.

Hopefully, everyone can be shown how this can work out, no matter which part of the hobby you prefer the most. I do believe though that some people will not "come around", because of fundmental objections they have to the way SST is moving.

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