Tournament and Campaign

[l33tpenguin]

A single set of ships identical for both game types with rules to balance the races at the campaign level or two lists, one set each to balance the gameplay at the fleet level.

[H]

what kind of pike?

[katadder]

be nice to just have one set of lists you can use anywhere.

[emperorpenguin]

One set of fleet lists useable no matter the style of game (ie one off or campaign)

It works in BFG, it'll work in ACTA

[Wulf Corbett]

Use the current Tournament list with variants extrapolated from it for everything, no need whatsoever for any campaign re-balancing. Just like I already do...

Wulf

[Burger]

One list 4tw!

[Geekybiker]

One List to rule them all,
One list to find them,
One list to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

[l33tpenguin]

Out on the Rim, where the Shadows lie

[emperorpenguin]

ROFLMAO

[wargame_insomniac]

Use the current Tournament list with variants extrapolated from it for everything, no need whatsoever for any campaign re-balancing. Just like I already do...

Wulf

Then why when I asked the question as a total newbie was I told repeatedly that the tournament lists with tournament ship stats are balanced for tournament play whilst the campaign lists with campaign ship stats are also balanced but for campaign play??

If campaign lists are currently balanced, and then you change the campaign ship stats over to the tournament ship stats without making any other changes to the rules, then campaign lists can therefore no longer be balanced.

All we need from Mongoose (until 2d edition ACTA comes out) is an expanded PDF based on the exisitng tournament rules & ship stats (which everyone assures me are perfectly balanced for tournament play, with some additional several pages of additional rules/tables for campaign play.

I can then try to learn ACTA having to memorise only 1 set of ships stats regardless of whether playing 1-off or campaign games. And I can then persuade friends at local gaming club that they do in fact want to play ACTA.

From looking at the responses to this & similar threads it seems that the more experienced ACTA players can cope with current situation and that newbies like me find it too confusing. Just remember that the newbies of today are the experienced players of tomorrow. And if Mongoose are n't able to attract as many new players because it is too confusing.....


James

[Wulf Corbett]

Use the current Tournament list with variants extrapolated from it for everything, no need whatsoever for any campaign re-balancing. Just like I already do...

Then why when I asked the question as a total newbie was I told repeatedly that the tournament lists with tournament ship stats are balanced for tournament play whilst the campaign lists with campaign ship stats are also balanced but for campaign play??

My opinion (apart from the fact it is just an opinion) is based solidly on the two facts that

a) I never play Tournament games and so basically don't consider them
b) I was meaning that Mongoose should develop such a full fleet list, not that they already had.

Besides, the Tournament lists are available free. Mongoose are in the business of SELLING stuff.

Wulf

[l33tpenguin]

They can always just sell the single list. Also, consider that they tried to make you pay to buy a list of tournament ships. Now you are buying the minis, the rules, the basic ships and the ships for tournameny play? That wouldn't fly too well.

I don't like the idea of having to learn two fleets. If you bring your fellow players up on tourny fleets, since they are balanced for one offs, they learn that. Now you are playing more and want to rule a campaign? well, forget your old strats, your ships are all different.

I'm in favor of one list of balanced ships, with campagn rules better balanced to all these same ships in such a setting

[lastbesthope]

If campaign lists are currently balanced, and then you change the campaign ship stats over to the tournament ship stats without making any other changes to the rules, then campaign lists can therefore no longer be balanced.

But the rules do change, mainly, the knock on effect of campaign games, and all the upgrade/repair activity that goes on between battles does not feature in tournament play. You just hit the reset button and go again.

LBH

[Geekybiker]

If campaign lists are currently balanced, and then you change the campaign ship stats over to the tournament ship stats without making any other changes to the rules, then campaign lists can therefore no longer be balanced.

But the rules do change, mainly, the knock on effect of campaign games, and all the upgrade/repair activity that goes on between battles does not feature in tournament play. You just hit the reset button and go again.

LBH

Easy fix. Make race specific RR rules for campaigns. Some races tend to have alot more damage to fix, while other just lose ships outright.

I think the biggest difference between a campaign and one offs is just the mentality. In tournaments you dont care if your fleet is destroyed as long as you take out your opponent first. In campaigns you're much more likely to flee a losing battle to preserve ships for another day.

[emperorpenguin]

Also, consider that they tried to make you pay to buy a list of tournament ships.

I don't like the idea of having to learn two fleets...... well, forget your old strats, your ships are all different.

They tried to make you pay? When? Way back when we first started playtesting these lists Matt said they'd be freely available IIRC. I don't remember any talk of buying them!

I agree on your second point, it is awkward, especially when you make a mistake during a game because you confuse the two stats!

[Chernobyl]

the tournament pack was listed as a "for-sale" item in the upcoming releases for a short while, but they changed to having it as a free download.

Chern

[Wulf Corbett]

the tournament pack was listed as a "for-sale" item in the upcoming releases for a short while, but they changed to having it as a free download.

Another fine job by the lovely playtest team

Well, I certainly argued the point...

Wulf

[wargame_insomniac]

If campaign lists are currently balanced, and then you change the campaign ship stats over to the tournament ship stats without making any other changes to the rules, then campaign lists can therefore no longer be balanced.

But the rules do change, mainly, the knock on effect of campaign games, and all the upgrade/repair activity that goes on between battles does not feature in tournament play. You just hit the reset button and go again.

LBH

Easy fix. Make race specific RR rules for campaigns. Some races tend to have alot more damage to fix, while other just lose ships outright.

That works for me- now we just have to persuade Mongoose....

Cheers

James

[E Nicely]

the tournament pack was listed as a "for-sale" item in the upcoming releases for a short while, but they changed to having it as a free download.

Another fine job by the lovely playtest team

Well, I certainly argued the point...

Wulf

Yeah you did, but I was the one that originally brought the issue up.

[Elessar]

I agree about 1 list and specific rtules for campaigns
Let's wait for Armaggedon