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BF:E Errata

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:16 pm
by DrUnK3n_PaNdA
Since the game is no longer supported, I'm curious if any players would like to get together to make a semi-official errata. I'm just getting my friend into the game and I'm returning to some of the old problems I have with the game and specifically the army lists. Some point values seem to high, some seem too low... The US Army can take squads of a single Sergeant for -20 points and it's really difficult to make a realistic force in some cases! Just try fitting a realistic Stryker platoon into a 2k point game!

I'd be happy to organize something if other people would like to put in their input.

For me, my personal wishlist is:
More realistic force selection
Better (i.e. not a waste of points) artillery
Amended options for US Army Rifle Squads to not allow a negative point value
Stingers and TOWs having the one-shot trait removed (TOW-carrier HMMWVs carry six. Stinger teams carry additional missiles as well)
Shoulder-fired anti-aircraft option for Russia and some others
Shoulder-fired anti-aircraft being able to be combined into a single choice like Talon teams. Stinger teams usually operate in units of 2 teams.
Support for air-mobile infantry platoons
Command Vehicles for armored squadrons
US Weapons Squads limited to one per two Rifle Squads as per all other fire support squads
Multiple CVRT vehicles being available for a single choice, they operate in teams of 2 in real life and are prohibitively expensive in choices outside an armored squadron
TALON drones not being able to shoot 16 dice per turn...
Toned down air assets and selection restrictions to focus the action on the ground, not air-superiority
Amended point-values for many APCs and IFVs (Mostly Strykers, Spartans and LAV's)
Rangers and Force Recon, etc. being modified to Platoon selections. SAS, Delta, KSK, Alfa Group, and the like should be the tiny elite squads

If anyone else is interested in collaborating on this to keep the game alive, let's discuss it!

Re: BF:E Errata

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:57 pm
by Rick
I agree that the 'One-Shot' rule should be dropped from every man-portable weapon in the game, to be replaced with 'slow' in the case of a reloaded launcher - all Infantry teams carry reloads, with more in their transport vehicle. I can't think of a single case where an entire weapon is discarded after 1 use with no replacement.

I was looking at doing a Bf:Evo Cold (ish) War army list book - alternative 1990's where the USSR is fighting to keep hold of the Warsaw Pact countries, who are being helped by NATO moving east. Little difference in most equipment from the rulebook, little difference in the standard army lists, much more variation and different army lists.

Re: BF:E Errata

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:13 am
by basaint
Managed to score some decent box sets from a UK seller and now have nice forces.
We played today and tried Arty at every other round-Worked well, not over powering.
Id like to change some of the weapons stats. Ive always thought they seemed off a bit, in Bevo and Apocz.

Has anyone ever saved any of the old docs with Fan lists? Wondering about trying alternatives.

Also thought about modernizing it a bit with the current state of affairs. Turning MEA into Isis and statting out captured M1s

Re: BF:E Errata

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:45 am
by Rick
The MEA works better as an Afghan list, but it could work fairly well as ISIS.

Humvees would be a definite possibility, as would be M113 APC's and T-72's. Not sure I'd go as far as M1's though - ISIS have destroyed several Iraqi M1's, but as far as I'm aware, have yet to capture any (They'd be the first tank put into a video if they actually had any!) - no reason why you couldn't have them in if you really wanted to, though. I think they may have a handful of BMP's (1's or 2's), some MTLB's and a couple of 2S1 Gvozdika, along with a couple of dozen T-54/55/62 Tanks, but as these aren't in the original book you'd have to invent stats for them. Although ISIS seem well equipped with ammo for most guns - vehicle missile systems would be impossible to find replacements for - maybe have them as one-shot weapons?

Re: BF:E Errata

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:36 am
by basaint
Good ideas Rick

We played again on Sunday with some new weapon stats that seem more appropriate and with the randomness of dice, they werent overpowering at all:
50 Call or equiv. = d8
20/25 mm = d8+1
30mm (ish)=d8+2

Things we want to try next:
Most of the weapon types listed above should have AA
upping certain AA/AT stats like Starstreak,CRV7s, Vulcun
Eliminating certain duplicate weapons and renaming/updating others(Ex. only 1 AK, updating M16 with M4)
Debating about adding a ready action to Certain AT launchers like Tows instead of slow

Re: BF:E Errata

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:24 pm
by Rick
There is a huge problem with the rules which you kind of highlighted with the increased capabilities of the .50 cal. The armour penetration and weapon performance is somewhat unrealistic.
Consider an M1 Abrams - if a .50 cal rolls a d8, then it could knock it out (with 4 hits, I'll grant you), straight through the front armour. In RL, even a 40mm cannon at point blank range couldn't do that. The weapon performance was condensed right down for playability, but it is a problem that I don't see a good answer for, unless you want to also introduce D12 and D20's into the game?

Also, there is a good argument to be made for streamlining most assault rifles down into a single entry, as most of them are quite similar.

I would look carefully at each TOW entry - while the ground-mount TOW probably should be given the 'Ready' trait, the vehicle-mounted version should not; it would be better to have it as 'slow', rather than penalising a fairly stable, vehicle mounted missile system.

As to expanding the AA trait, I'm not sure. Any weapon can fire at an air target moving slower than loiter already; AA weapons have a specialised tracking and gunnery system that allows it to traverse and fire at much faster air units, which doesn't cover most pintle MG's or some autocannon. Perhaps have another category - LAA (Limited AA) that can fire at V/STOL or Loiter, but not any faster aircraft as well as AA that can fire at any speed?

Re: BF:E Errata

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:15 am
by basaint
50Cal -I see going against tanks could be problematic but you'd also have to roll a perfect 8 which limits its effectiveness. Plus getting a bad Armor save is low but how about this option - against people and light vehicles, allow it. Tanks cant be affected

TOWs-Im coming from experience although a bit dated (late 80s) but as far as I know, you still have to wait for the launcher to setup on vehicles, not a stability thing. I get using Slow to keep the game fun and not overpowered but Im thinking if you're willing to stop and go 'Ready', it should allow some benefit (if played correctly and not using 'Slow') of allowing 2 possible shoot actions.

AA-thing i noticed was unless i had dedicated AA, Air could be devastating (as played out this weekend when in 2 Jet flybys killed over a quarter of my force with 4 bombs). 50 Cal was AA for a long time although more effective in quad mount but by saying only the GPMG w/AA is the only possibility seems weird plus its only really going to work a 6th of the time in Loiter and nothing higher (if Im reading the chart right on pg 26). I think APC main guns should have AA added as well like 20-30mm weapons.

Re: BF:E Errata

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:01 am
by msprange
Just to put it out there, I seem to recall hearing about an Abrams that was taken out (that is 'taken out', mobility only) by a single 23mm round in Iraq...

Re: BF:E Errata

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:00 pm
by Rick
msprange wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:01 am
Just to put it out there, I seem to recall hearing about an Abrams that was taken out (that is 'taken out', mobility only) by a single 23mm round in Iraq...
I've seen a few posts that mention a 23mm round hitting an Abrams through the rear grille and stopping it (presumably a mobility kill, possibly a total kill if the engine was damaged enough), but not through the front.

Re: BF:E Errata

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:44 pm
by Rick
I did consider a 'heavy armour' trait that would allow tanks and heavily armoured vehicles to re-roll a failed save against some weapons (Mg's, HMG's, artillery and autocannon up to 30/35mm) which might do the trick.

Re: BF:E Errata

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:16 am
by basaint
I think that (heavy) might've been implied by the 2+ armor save but we could say that the piercing modifier doesnt apply to MBT's

I also was curious how top armor damage was being resolved-are you all using the Rear stats?