[Cybernet] Bots & Borgs

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Sketchpad
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[Cybernet] Bots & Borgs

Postby Sketchpad » Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:36 am

Hey there,
Just got the OGL Cybernet book and I have to say Bravo! Great product! I have a question to the OGL fans out there ... has anyone been working on Full-Borg rules or Robotic rules for this? I'm thinking of making something akin to SW's Droid rules for Cybernet, so I can include bots as a character type ... and I got to thinking of full Borgs ... anyone out there thinking this direction?
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Postby Guest » Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:17 am

Well,

Don't know about robots, you thinking AI's placed in Full Cybernetic Bodies? Or simply low 2 or 3 INT preprogramed security, or Automated Cleaners.

As for the Full 'Borg conversion I am pondering that. Going by the Base Cyberware you would have to have some buying power and then lots of heal time. Attempting to make a Base model using the cyberware in the book one would come up with:

Left Cyber Arm/Hand - Install DC 12 - Purchase 12 - Self Cost 2d6
Right Cyber Arm/Hand - Install DC 12 - Purchase 12 - Self Cost 2d6
Left Cyber Leg/Foot - Install DC 12 - Purchase 14 - Self Cost 2d6
Right Cyber Leg/Foot - Install DC 12 - Purchase 14 - Self Cost 2d6
OmniJoints - Install DC 20 - Purchase 18 - Self Cost 2d6
Spinal Replacement - Install DC 21 - Purchase 13 - Self Cost 1d4
Left Cyber Eye - Install DC 12 - Purchase 12 - Self Cost 1d6
Right Cyber Eye - Install DC 12 - Purchase 12 - Self Cost 1d6
Left Cyber Ear - Install DC 14 - Purchase 12 - Self Cost 1d4
Right Cyber Ear - Install DC 14 - Purchase 12 - Self Cost 1d4
Cyber Smell / Taste - Install 14 - Purchase 12 - Self Cost 1d3

This is all we can pull from the book, To finish the Full 'Borg out we would need a chest, as well as Head. Lets say:

Head Coif - (lets say Install DC 12 - Purchase 14 - Self Cost 1d6)
Face Replacement - (lets say Install DC 20 - Purchase 18 - Self Cost 2d6)
Cyber Body Frame - (lets say Install DC 22 - Purchase 22 - Self Cost 3d6)
*note Body Frame only possible with full borg converts*

However, we need a Biosystem and lungs to keep the brain alive, also a liver to filter any toxins that might make there way into the bloodstream. So:

Redundant BioSystem - Install DC 18 - Purchase 14 - Self 2d3
Artificial Lungs - Install DC 21 - Purchase 15 - Self 1d4
Artifical digestion - Install DC 22 - Purchase 14 - Self 1d3

Lets see where we are for totals:

Self Cost = 14d6+4d3+4d4 (Averages 56) This would make an average person (11) become a Rude, unattractive person, with antisocial tendencies (5) And suffer a Wealth Loss of at least -5 (possibly More) if the pieces were purchased individually over time. Purchasing them as part of a package, I would add +2 to the Purchase DC and calculate Wealth Loss that way. Something aroung -10 Wealth.

This of Course would be a Full 'Borg without any options, the first option one might consider is Synth Skin, and I would rule that the skin would not grant any Self Back. Due to the Nature of adding Options after a Full 'Borg Convert I would say the Self Cost is Half what it normally would be. All the shock to the Ego and ID is over, at least most of it.

Just some Thoughts,
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Postby psyclonejack » Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:20 am

I do so hate getting logged out before you press the submit button. hehe

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It deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat be rghit. The rset can be a tatol mses and you can raed it wouthit porbelm. The huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter, but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Postby Sketchpad » Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:27 am

Those are some nifty ideas ... as far as the robots, I was thinking of something like the androids from Blade Runner or the Total Recall series ...
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Way out Full Borg Idea

Postby skandall » Fri Jan 02, 2004 8:25 am

Seems to me that you don't buy a car piece by piece, paying premium prices for each part. You do that AFTER you buy the car to make it customized to your personality. That got me to thinking that maybe Borg bodies should be treated like buying a car. It comes with all the basic features you need to have typical human function and then you can customize it later. So here's a real quick idea for basic Borg body stats (since I need to be asleep instead of typing).

Install DC - On the high side, perhaps 25. Sticking the brain into a metal body isn't a walk in the park after all.
Purchase DC- These things aren't cheap. Minimum 25 for a borg body that equals human.
Self Cost - This is going to be high as well. Maybe 25 + 6d6?
Initiative Modifier - Mostly a +0, but if the body is of a much better grade, perhaps a +1 or +2.
Speed - Base speed for the body. Most would be the same as for humans, but some may be slightly higher or lower.
Defense Modifier - Metal is better, period. A borg body can move faster than a humans if it's built right. Or it could be a hinderance. Thus a modifier for the characters DV.
Hardness - As with cars, borg bodies have a good ability to soak damage. Damage Reduction for the borg body is a must. Not sure how much though.
Hit Points - Here's a big drawback to being a borg; the bodies HP is all you get. No more extra HP when you level up. Forget all that. You want more HP, well you can't have it, buy more armor plating to increase Hardness.
Size - Same as a human, though theres room for some to be larger or smaller.
Restriction - Should full body conversion be available to everyone? Not sure but no doubt that certain models would be restricted in some way.

In addition to those stats the body description would include a list of other cybernetics that are included. Things like enhanced vision would be bought later and I agree that the self cost should be greatly reduced. I mean, how much more shock can you put yourself through than ripping your brain out of it's skull and putting it into a metal body? That's pretty messed up so having a decentralized heart or a hidden arm holster shouldn't even scratch what little sense of Self you have left. Now, you go putting a palm bomb or cybersnake in, well that's still traumatic.

Anyway, some brief thoughts on borgs. I'm off to sleep.
Regards,
Craig
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Postby psyclonejack » Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:07 am

craig,

DC 25 for a full 'borg body? sign me up, I got a level 1 contact that can buy 2 right away. A party of full borgs . . . yikes. A brand new Hummer 3 is around DC 38. So I think a full 'borg should be something someone has to work up too . . . And DC 25 wouldn't be that big of a Wealth loss. 1 point for a character with a 15 Wealth. DC 40 would mean that about any person with Wealth under 25 would lose 2D6 in wealth. Since anything 16 points above your wealth score is 2d6 in loss. At least as far as I understand Wealth.

As for self loss 25 - 6d6 (18 avg) = 43 avg. That means a Average Joe (10) is a (6) after, basicly a rude person. That could work they way I figured it by piece 56 was average so doing it all at once could 'lessen the shock' of it all. This works.

Install DC of 25. I would almost still keep this as several rolls. Because it isn't just the Brain, certain organs have to be kept to keep the brain alive to filter the fluids. Mother nature still works the best. Perhaps Once DC 25 roll for the initial ripping of the meat from the body. DC 25 to transfer the organs and brain into the chasis, and a last DC 25 roll to hook the systems into the meat. A failed attempt along the way would be what? glitches? With future surgeries to fix them DC 25? Or a longer heal time based on how much you missed it by?

Just some thoughts, back to work I go.
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Postby Socket » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:52 pm

psyclonejack wrote:craig,

DC 25 for a full 'borg body? sign me up, I got a level 1 contact that can buy 2 right away. A party of full borgs . . . yikes. A brand new Hummer 3 is around DC 38. So I think a full 'borg should be something someone has to work up too . . . And DC 25 wouldn't be that big of a Wealth loss. 1 point for a character with a 15 Wealth. DC 40 would mean that about any person with Wealth under 25 would lose 2D6 in wealth. Since anything 16 points above your wealth score is 2d6 in loss. At least as far as I understand Wealth.

PsyJack
Actually, DC25 would be 2 points of wealth loss for a character with a 15 wealth bonus. 1 pt for being DC15 or higher and one point for being 1 - 10 pts over the wealth bonus, if the DC is 15 or over it always adds a +1 to the loss.
. But I agree the full borg needs to be a much higher DC than 25.
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Postby August » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:23 pm

Just to let everyone know, a borg article has been written and submitted to Signs and Portents just for you folks. See? I listen to what you say on this forum. :)

-August
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Postby psyclonejack » Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:43 am

Mongoose August gleefully wrote:Just to let everyone know, a borg article has been written and submitted to Signs and Portents just for you folks. See? I listen to what you say on this forum.

-August
See the Corps are listening . . . Darn bugs, wheres my white noise generator and sweeper??

A Thankful,
PsyJack

-----------
Socket corrected Psyclonejack when he wrote:Actually, DC25 would be 2 points of wealth loss for a character with a 15 wealth bonus. 1 pt for being DC15 or higher and one point for being 1 - 10 pts over the wealth bonus, if the DC is 15 or over it always adds a +1 to the loss.

But I agree the full borg needs to be a much higher DC than 25.
Socket
They stack, thats intresting . . . So a DC 40 with a Person with Wealth 20 would lose 1 pnt for over 15, 1 pnt for over 1-10, 1D6 pnts for over 11-15, and 2d6 pnts for over 16+. Thats 3d6+2 Wealth Loss for a purchase of anything over 16 of your wealth score.

or

Is it lose 1 pnt for over 15, and lose 2d6 pnts because its 16+ over. For a total of 2d6+1?

(Insert Pondering Here)
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Postby Sketchpad » Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:28 am

Mongoose August wrote:Just to let everyone know, a borg article has been written and submitted to Signs and Portents just for you folks. See? I listen to what you say on this forum. :)

-August
Cool :) Any idea what issue this'll be in?
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Postby cerhob » Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:08 am

Do you think you can make that available on-line here somewhere? Because I think that is something that eveyone sould be able to get, like the errata.
Who knows, it’s just my opinion.
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Postby August » Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:38 am

I am not at all sure that it will be available online. It is , after all, an expansion of the Cybernet game, not really a rules clarification. The errata is going to be 'free' so to speak, but TPR (Total Physical Replacement) is something that adds to the game but is not part of the central rules.

After all, even C-punk had full-borgs in a Chromebook. :)

-August
"This is a blanket apology to every god I can think of and all the ones I don't know. I have no idea what I did or in which life I did it, but I am really sorry. Ummm, my bad."
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Postby Socket » Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:23 pm

Socket corrected Psyclonejack when he wrote:Actually, DC25 would be 2 points of wealth loss for a character with a 15 wealth bonus. 1 pt for being DC15 or higher and one point for being 1 - 10 pts over the wealth bonus, if the DC is 15 or over it always adds a +1 to the loss.

But I agree the full borg needs to be a much higher DC than 25.
Socket
psyclonejack wrote: wrote: They stack, thats intresting . . . So a DC 40 with a Person with Wealth 20 would lose 1 pnt for over 15, 1 pnt for over 1-10, 1D6 pnts for over 11-15, and 2d6 pnts for over 16+. Thats 3d6+2 Wealth Loss for a purchase of anything over 16 of your wealth score.

or

Is it lose 1 pnt for over 15, and lose 2d6 pnts because its 16+ over. For a total of 2d6+1?

(Insert Pondering Here)
PsyJack
I hadn't thought about the 1-10,11-15 and the 16+ stacking, just wasn't thinking big enough:).
Cybernet and the d20 modern srd only really address stacking the 1pt for DC15 or over... A DC of 40 represents about 900,000 bucks. A wealth of 20 represents (using guidelines from articles at WOTC and The Games Mechanics) a worth of about 50,000 bucks. I guess the answer would depend on how hard you wanted to hit the players wealth or how hard credit is to come by in your campaign. If they did all stack then in your example a player that rolled max (using the 3d6+2) would be reduced to a wealth of 0.
Life is harsh in the future. On one had like them not stacking and on the other hand I am drawn to using it:) Just the Player and GM in me fighting again!

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Losing Wealth

Postby Socket » Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:46 pm

It appears that the different categories do not stack, just the +1 from any DC over 15.

This is from a bullet point article from the WOTC site and since Cybernet was built on d20modern it might be applicable.The character in this example has a wealth of 7.
The article's link is
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d2 ... /20030617a
snippet from:bullet point article wrote:
By taking 20, the character can swing an item with a purchase DC of 27. Several cars and motorcycles have purchase DCs of 27 or below, and the character can even afford a vehicle that would normally have a purchase DC of 28 if she buys used. But she loses 2d6+1 Wealth for such a purchase, so there's a good chance she'll be tapped out. (The average result on a 2d6+1 roll is 8, which would reduce her Wealth bonus to +0.) If she rolled well and got a Wealth loss result of 6 or lower, though, she might still have a point or two of Wealth bonus left. By taking 20 on the purchase of a weapon, she could get nearly any firearm on the list.
So in Pysjack's example the correct wealth lost would be 2d6+1. 2d6 for being DC 16+ and +1 for having a purchase DC over 15.

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Postby OtherNiceMan » Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:30 pm

As Cybernet was built from the d20 Modern SRD you might find this useful d20 Modern Errata and FAQ it is available in PDF / Text & HTML formats.

It covers pretty much every question ever answered on the WoTC boards by the authors of d20 Modern, some of which have then turned up in Bullet point articles.
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Postby psyclonejack » Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:10 am

Nice, Thanks

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