Toranese Archers (at last!)

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Bewildered Badger

Toranese Archers (at last!)

Postby Bewildered Badger » Sat May 21, 2005 9:36 am

Just had a look at the blurb for S&P ihh 23. It seems we will be getting the stats for archers from the Guilds of Toran. Should be worth a look.
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Postby Greg Smith » Sat May 21, 2005 11:46 am

Yay! I submitted that last summer. I hope you all enjoy it. :)
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Re.:

Postby blue crane » Sun May 29, 2005 5:27 pm

Dear Mr. Smith,

Yes, I too am anxiously awaiting the arrival of this feature of yours! It will be interesting to see how I fared with regards to my own interpretation posted somewhere on the forum, entitled 'OGL Sommlending Arrows'!! :)

Well, congratulations on this achievement! I am sure that this will be impressive...most impressive. :lol:

Kind regards,
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Postby DuskFox » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:23 pm

I like the idea of this class and hope they're implemented well, but as with a lot of the classes I'm seeing for the game, it just seems more like a Prestige Class type than a Base Class, to me.
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Postby Greg Smith » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:39 pm

DuskFox wrote:I like the idea of this class and hope they're implemented well, but as with a lot of the classes I'm seeing for the game, it just seems more like a Prestige Class type than a Base Class, to me.
In what way? All of the classes in LW are based on a specific locale or people, the Archer is in the same way.
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Postby DuskFox » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:55 pm

I guess it's just my particular problem with the overspecialization of classes in LW.
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Postby columbob » Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:27 pm

DuskFox wrote:I guess it's just my particular problem with the overspecialization of classes in LW.
It's part of the appeal of the setting for me, a different way of handling classes than all the usual d20 settings/spinoffs.
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Postby DuskFox » Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:05 pm

I'd have preferred something more along the lines of what was done with the Wheel of Time RPG, which is sort of a halfway point between the two.
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Postby Ghost Bear » Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:14 am

columbob wrote: It's part of the appeal of the setting for me, a different way of handling classes than all the usual d20 settings/spinoffs.
Definitely agree. I like how I get to be a Cener Druid, or a Herbalish, or a Dark Cultist, which give me fixed skills and abilities (and stop stupid combinations, like a Herbalish wielding an Obliviate sickle).

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Postby DuskFox » Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:44 pm

I guess that's a plus for people who don't do that on their own, but my gaming groups have never really had problems fleshing out our characters on our own. We never walked around thinking "I'm a Paladin" or whatever, but rather took it upon ourselves to detail our characters. The overspecialized classes in the LWRPG are actually a hindrance to my group, as we find ourselves increasingly hedged-in by the character archetypes. This is probably less common than what the rest of you are experiencing, which is stronger characterization through class specifics.
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Postby Wannabe Drakkar » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:53 am

ive personally found its all about approach, someone who whines about character freedom in LW seems to make a lame character, someone who gets inspired by the archetypes though... put it this way, one of the best pc's ive seen is a Karaushnith worshipping Knight of Sommerlund, allied with the Drakkarim to conquer Sommerlund through guile and deception
Banedon: Grand Master Wannabe Drakkar? what are you and your acolytes doing with those bor rifles?
GMWD: well Guildmaster Banedon, when we Drakkarim find Lone Wolf we're gunna Dakka Dakka 'im
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Postby DuskFox » Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:47 pm

Well, the main problem in our group was that we had four players, and no one really felt comfortable with the class they were playing except me (I was the Kai Lord, that class is pretty much what it needs to be), and even then I took the character in an odd direction. One of the players wanted to be a retired Dwarven sky pirate, but didn't want to be a gunner, so we had to tinker with the Shadaki Buccaneer class to make it into what he wanted. Another character wanted to be a Drakkar mercenary, so we had to just settle on the next best thing for the class (Sommerlund Knight of the Realm, which was and still is totally inappropriate for the character type), and a Vakeros (before we had Magic of Magnamund--since then, the character has been perfectly comfortable). While the Kai Lord and the Vakeros are now essentially fine with their characters, there's constant tinkering with the other two, because there just aren't classes suited to their chosen roles.
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Postby Ghost Bear » Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:05 am

I don't see why you can't use the Dark Warrior from the Darklands supplement for the Drakkar mercenary.

I prefer the classes being so specific. It adds to the heroic nature of Magnamund. After all, practically everyone significant that Lone Wolf meets fits into a class or organisation of some kind.

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Postby DuskFox » Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:18 am

Ghost Bear wrote:I don't see why you can't use the Dark Warrior from the Darklands supplement for the Drakkar mercenary.

I prefer the classes being so specific. It adds to the heroic nature of Magnamund. After all, practically everyone significant that Lone Wolf meets fits into a class or organisation of some kind.

-GB
We probably could, if anyone had the Darklands supplement. I've never even looked at the class, so I'm not sure it's what he was going for. Still, our fault if we don't have the supplement that has the perfect match.

And... I don't think your last statement is true. I'd be hard-pressed to pigeonhole characters like Sebb Jarel, Zakhan Kimah, Viveka, Tavig, or many other characters whose classes may be a more generic type than the game allows. My biggest problem with the way the classes are set up is that you don't have the choice for either/or in most cases. What if you want to be a dwarf or a gunner, but not both? A buccaneer, but not a Shadaki Buccaneer? A kundi, but not a mystic? What if you just want to be a mercenary, or a pickpocket, or someone whose specialty is throwing knives or acrobatics? There are no classes which directly allow for some of these things, and so you have to hedge and warp a class into what you want it to be. That just gets on my nerves.
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Postby columbob » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:21 pm

DuskFox wrote:
Ghost Bear wrote:I don't see why you can't use the Dark Warrior from the Darklands supplement for the Drakkar mercenary.

I prefer the classes being so specific. It adds to the heroic nature of Magnamund. After all, practically everyone significant that Lone Wolf meets fits into a class or organisation of some kind.

-GB
We probably could, if anyone had the Darklands supplement. I've never even looked at the class, so I'm not sure it's what he was going for. Still, our fault if we don't have the supplement that has the perfect match.
The Dark Warrior class is basically the Warrior class +, because the character then specializes in a specific military area, whether it is infantry, archery or cavalry. It also allows later access to the Death Knight advanced class, but that's still not what your other character is looking for. Death knights are sort of dark paladins in the service of the Darklords.
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Postby DuskFox » Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:00 pm

That doesn't quite sound like it, either. He's playing a fairly standard (abilities-wise) mercenary--graceless, efficient, and tough. Dark Warrior may work better than the route he's currently going, but it still sounds like it's not quite what he was looking for.
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Class pigeonholing

Postby Stormcrow the White Wolf » Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:23 pm

If you have a person playing a character who doesn't fit into the classes currently presented by Mongoose, download the d20 Standard Rules Document (which is free, last time I knew), take the feats and classes, and adapt them back in. Since magery and priestly types are quite well represented with the Magic of Magnamund supplement, rogue and general fighter types are missing from the world. The 3.5 Rogue is the arguably most versatile class in the SRD, and gains a massive amount of class features that equal the wide range of class abilities Lone Wolf classes gain. Fighters could choose 1 feat per level as their class ability, and so on.
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Postby DuskFox » Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:29 pm

Oh, I understand that point of view perfectly well, and that's sort of what we're doing. The problem is that it feels like a total kludge, and with no playtesting and balance-checking being done, we're constantly fine-tuning his character to the point where he says, "Screw it, I'll just play a damn knight!" three or four times a game (but never really means it). We are not game designers, we are game players, and shenever we make our own mods to the system, it just feels... wrong.
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Postby Bewildered Badger » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:49 am

Finally got the ish of S&P with the Toranese Archer in. Very interesting, and a usefull support to a melee orientated Knight of the Realm. One question though (and maybe others as soon as I think of them!), how much money does the archer start off with?

Also, if the Mongoose Powers That Be read this, how about an official Character sheet to match those already available? And a miniature too would be nice.
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Postby Greg Smith » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:45 pm

Bewildered Badger wrote:Finally got the ish of S&P with the Toranese Archer in. Very interesting, and a usefull support to a melee orientated Knight of the Realm. One question though (and maybe others as soon as I think of them!), how much money does the archer start off with?
I'm glad you like it.

Starting money would be 150gc. Starting age 14+1d4.
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