Minbari Factbook

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Razuur

Minbari Factbook

Postby Razuur » Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:52 pm

Wow, what a great book.

I have to give this book a straight A. I loved the writing, I loved the depth, i loved the sheer amount of ideas that jumped out of every page. Mr Hahn, you did a superb job. I can't wait for you to get your hands on more B5 books.

Great subraces - all three were really unique and cool.

My wife loved your Minbari anatomy section, her being a science nut and all. We both could hear Doctor Franklin's voice as we read. Well Written.

I would have given this book and A+ if not for three things:

1) Some of the art pixels on the ships scenes were a little noticable.

2) No pictures of the minbari tanks to comapre with the EA ones

3) I had trouble connecting up the ships pictures throughout the book with the ship descriptions.

This is more art and layout related though, and not the writer's fault...

Could anyone at Mongoose or out there on the boards connect up the ships with the pictures in the book?

I pretty much know the sharlin, nial, tinashi, and whitestar - and am unfamiliar with the most of the AoG derived vessels.

Thanks again for a great book. Looking forward to the Centauri and Narn book!

What a great line. Top Drawer, Mongoose. Top Drawer!

Razuur
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Postby LoneStranger » Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:51 pm

Yeah I have to agree that the book could have used more illustrations of the various ships in there as well as the vechicles used, other than that it does look good (sorry haven't read through all the way yet).
A fan of the Earth Alliance fleet, a.k.a. the Flying Brick Brigade
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Postby ronbogard » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:50 pm

You might wont to check out http://www.wolfsshipyard.mystarship.com/Minbari.html
for a picutes of Minbari ships. Though most of it is not in the Minbari Fact book. It does drawings have the Sharlin, Tigara, Leshath, Troligan, Neshatan, Morshin, TOrotha, Tinashi, Nail.
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Postby August » Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:23 am

Thank you, Razuur. Thank you very much. I am glad your wife enjoyed the book as well, especially as I worked as hard as I could to keep the biology consistent and believable throughout that section. (Hard to do for a sentient race with a bone on its head, but hey... :) )

I've got a finishing touch or two to add to the Centauri book and then it will be out and on its way to you. Hope you enjoy it and the Narn book as much as you have this one.

Take care,
-August
"This is a blanket apology to every god I can think of and all the ones I don't know. I have no idea what I did or in which life I did it, but I am really sorry. Ummm, my bad."
Razuur

Minbari Factbook

Postby Razuur » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:27 pm

You're very welcome Mr Hahn. You did an outstanding job, and I am thankful. I swear that there is at least something on at least every page that leapt out at me. It is easily one of my top 20 D20 books.

Yeah, you did a good job on the anatomy. It all looked good to me, but I know not that much about anatomy. My wife was the real critic there as she knows a lot about anat & phys. I watched her sit there reading going... "Yep... Hmm.... Interesting. Very cool.... yeah, that makes sense..." and then finally, that was awesome. "He just made the minbari come alive!"

But don't get me wrong. I loved *every* section, and that is a rare thing in an rpg book for me. Your "how to be minbari" section was very useful for a player who was having trouble coming to grips with the race. I really loved the subraces and how you made the castes come alive. Loved the notes to sinclair - nice touch.

Sorry, but I am eminently pleased, and it takes a lot to please me.

And ronbogard, thanks for the link. It's exactly what I am looking for. Now I just need some tank pics. Thanks much.

Razuur

PS My mom has dyslexia to, and I had no trouble reading your writing. We though it was very readable and enjoyable.
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Postby ronbogard » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:54 pm

Then try here http://www.agentsofgaming.com/ogp.htm about 1/2 way down is some pictures of the Minbari Gropos miniatures.
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Postby Elizar » Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:08 am

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone could tell me some more information about this book. I have become more interested in the population/colony side of things regarding species in B5 recently. And wonder if there are details in this book about those kinds of things. I have managed to find out the populations of EA and Centauri. EA with 30 billion + (dialogue extracted, Garibaldi comments on outnumbering teeps 10,000 to 1 with telepaths stated to be several million by bester) with ten billion for Earth (crusade) and the Centauri to have 40 billion (Day of the dead episode) with only 3 billion for Centauri prime (JMS posting IIRC). But there is little about the Minbari. Since the EA are pretty new I would expect them to be low, and the Centauri are a declining people... so would have thought the Minbari had a larger population overall. Will the Narn book also have this kind of information? And with regards to colonies, are they all outlined or only the more major one's? As I expect with such population numbers that they would have thousands of colonies each. Especially since the largest colony population I have heard of is Thenothk with only 12 million, and that was a major hub for all shadow allies.

Thanks in advance. I just ordered the Minbari book from amazon.co.uk but it'll take over a week and I'm impatient. :) Anyone know why the EA book isn't listed on amazon.co.uk though? Been trying to get my hands on that too. I would use another place but its closed for the holidays, doh.

Also are there fleet sizes mentioned or are they to be mentioned in future books as that interests me as well.

Boring fleet size extrapolation: In legions of fire the canon book series we get an idea of Centauri ship production. With one low-tech border world they managed to complete 3,000 uber-advanced warships in 20 years. Thats 150 ships per year for one minor planet with no worth, and no economical support (ISA almost bankrupt the republic) and little infrastructure to speak of. Assuming the Centauri colonies consist of 100 million each despite even their home planet only having 3 billion and that there is little evidence of such population centers in the show, we get 370 colonies. These by comparison are far larger and more advanced colonies than the border world used, but applying the same worth we get 55,500 ships produced. Remember these are the most advanced ships around and are all heavy cap ships unlike their actual default class of ships (Vorchans), and that ship production should be a lot more hefty on the main colonies than a worthless border colony. And that this is during a huge depression with monumental economic issues.

That is quite a fleet and helps explain how the Centauri managed to equal the ISA with just half of its fleet used to fight on the offencive. It fits with the statement of the EA (a very young and now beaten people) fielding 20,000 ships & fighters at the end of a brutal war at least. Although that doesn't address their current status.

Thanks again.
"Shall I then fear the tone
That breathes from world's unknown?
Surely these feverish aspirations there
Shall grasp their full desire,
And this unsettled fire
Burn calmly, brightly, in immortal air." - Felicia Hemans
alderaine

Names

Postby alderaine » Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:50 pm

One thing I was looking forward to as a possibility was some help creating names for characters.
Is there a reference site somewhere to help with creating original names for Minbari, Centauri, etc as opposed to just combining names from the TV series in different orders?
jay.d2@ntlworld.com
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Postby Natxomann » Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:47 pm

The impossible can be made , it only takes a little bit of time and effort .
Lt Commander Jan Helder .
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Postby Elizar » Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:26 pm

Cool, finally got the book today. It's a great read, lots of interesting stuff. I was kinda in wtf mode when I read about the Minbari slaying Vorlons. But that was offset somewhat by interesting inclusions of stuff like the DarkShad armour (btw, nice to see the author spell it with a 'u' ;)). Psi-armour is a pretty good concept and I can see it happening in B5, at least with the Minbari. Special tech like that I can sorta understand reducing the Vorlons capability, I still think one would be able to mindrape just about all the Minbari who looked at it funny... but thats me.

The main info of interest for me again was the colony figures as I was outlining earlier, but space territory is also really intriguing. With it being said that the territory governed by the Minbari covers ~82,800 Light years! It doesn't say how many colonies it has in total, only that there are seventeen worthy of noting. Which is fine, can only name so many colonies before it gets boring. So here are the world numbers (sorted by pop. size)-

Minbar: 2,300,000,000
Tarellen: 825,000 (stated as largest colony of the Minbari)
Eshar: 430,000
Pagati: 425,000
Solta Gan: 425,000
Nocalo: 325,000
Ralafa: 285,000
Drala Toth: 150,000
Tala: 85,000
Tavalan: 55,000
Trigati: 45,000
Thessin's Moon: 35,000
Tro'Kact: 28,000
Sorpigal: 22,000
Davala Than: 17,000
Shengol: 2,000
Valusha: 700

So the total number of populous for the Minbari for their important colonies is 3,154,700. With only two billion located at their homeworld. If we were to apply EA population figures to the Minbari (Minbari have been space-faring for a thousand years and are stated as being bigger than the Centauri) we would have 27.7 billion Minbari going to colonies. With 825,000 being stated as their largest colony. So if we assume that every colony is like this (despite the contrary evidence) then we have roughly 33,500 Minbari colonies. Not bad, but that is pretty much a low end. Although it seems to fit somewhat with the amount of space they have and all goes in together. The milky way spans 100,000 LY's, but that 82,800 LY's refers to volume I believe (?). Still, there are I believe 400 billion stars in the milky way so that gives a good amount to supply those colonies (especially if they're nearer to the core of the milky way). And that 82,000 would be focused around the actual stars rather than say the space between the spiral arms. Don't know what the estimated planetary density is in the milky way, but should conceivably meet those estimates.

Great stuff, note a lot of the CG artists credited... hung out with a bunch of em on various boards. Nice to see them get their kudos. *Shamelessly pimps a starship design* - http://www.geocities.com/darkthoruk/ISA.html :D The extra's credit list names Alan Moore, thats not THE Alan Moore is it?[/code]
"Shall I then fear the tone
That breathes from world's unknown?
Surely these feverish aspirations there
Shall grasp their full desire,
And this unsettled fire
Burn calmly, brightly, in immortal air." - Felicia Hemans
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Postby Babylon 5 Aide » Mon Dec 29, 2003 4:15 pm

I like the design but it's really dark... Do you have a clearer picture :D?
What do you mean you need a container marked 'Vorlon bacterial waste'? And you need it delievered where? Ok ok ok yeah I know someone that can make it happen...
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Postby MW Turnage » Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:05 pm

Elizar wrote:So the total number of populous for the Minbari for their important colonies is 3,154,700. With only two billion located at their homeworld. If we were to apply EA population figures to the Minbari (Minbari have been space-faring for a thousand years and are stated as being bigger than the Centauri) we would have 27.7 billion Minbari going to colonies. With 825,000 being stated as their largest colony. So if we assume that every colony is like this (despite the contrary evidence) then we have roughly 33,500 Minbari colonies. Not bad, but that is pretty much a low end. Although it seems to fit somewhat with the amount of space they have and all goes in together. The milky way spans 100,000 LY's, but that 82,800 LY's refers to volume I believe (?). Still, there are I believe 400 billion stars in the milky way so that gives a good amount to supply those colonies (especially if they're nearer to the core of the milky way). And that 82,000 would be focused around the actual stars rather than say the space between the spiral arms. Don't know what the estimated planetary density is in the milky way, but should conceivably meet those estimates.
82,800 LY is almost certainly a misprint. The maps shown in the War Room (which seemed to cover most of known space, or at least the important parts) in Season 3 couldn't have been more than a thousand or so LYs across. Even as area or volume, the numbers don't jibe with given maps.

Also, why would EA population figures apply for the Minbari? It's been mentioned multiple times that Earth has expanded at a rate that's shocking, almost unheard of, to the other species. Given Minbari attention to environmental and other effects they probably viewed such an expansion rate as wasteful and foolish at best, horrific and dangerous at worst. Didn't one of the Minbari on the show call humans a 'blight'? I wonder if humans weren't likened to Minbari equivalent-of-locusts during the E-M War.[/i]
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Postby Elizar » Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:11 am

Babylon 5 aide - Thanks, no don't have a clearer picture... the PC that I rendered it with is 'broke' at the moment. The PC I'm using can't handle the size of the model, so it crashes. :) Although I should be able to fix it pretty soon.
MW Turnage wrote:82,800 LY is almost certainly a misprint. The maps shown in the War Room (which seemed to cover most of known space, or at least the important parts) in Season 3 couldn't have been more than a thousand or so LYs across. Even as area or volume, the numbers don't jibe with given maps.

Also, why would EA population figures apply for the Minbari? It's been mentioned multiple times that Earth has expanded at a rate that's shocking, almost unheard of, to the other species. Given Minbari attention to environmental and other effects they probably viewed such an expansion rate as wasteful and foolish at best, horrific and dangerous at worst. Didn't one of the Minbari on the show call humans a 'blight'? I wonder if humans weren't likened to Minbari equivalent-of-locusts during the E-M War.[/i]
That doesn't mean a limitation to that area, why map the whole galaxy if it is redundant. If we go to war with a country, we don't use a map of the solar system for the war efforts. It makes no sense. The obvious reasons are those being focused attacks in an area that is noteworthy. Or that the shadows had yet to spread to a significant amount in the galaxy. We clearly see Morden and Londo divide up the entire galaxy, with the Centauri taking a pretty hefty chunk of the galaxy as their space in the proposed plans. Which was not lingered on as anything of worth. It is however worthy to note that Morden/Shadows were giving the Centauri back what they had in the glory days. So that portion of space could be looked at as space they once held as an imperial empire. AOG had a map that showed EA hyperspace spanning thousands of LY's using the known planets as a guide, this being compressed/distorted space at that. 82,000 LY's as a volume makes a lot of sense, could be argued as quite small when looking at what the Centauri had (or would have). I believe it was also established that babylon 5 takes place on a galactic level many times, I think Ivanova and co. go looking for first one's throughout the galaxy with the whitestar.

The Minbari live far longer than humans, their sexual reproduction age is beyond ours (with no doubt little social stigma). They have a tough immunity to damn near all natural diseases. Their quality of life is far superior to our own. They're inherently extremely strong, fast and have an amazing endurance to damage. All these factors point to a MASSIVE population, not small. Those first few facts alone should rise their population well above our own. They also have the territory, technology and resources to easily support such a population. The Minbari should have well above that of the EA, even the Centauri have more and they're stated as declining. Centauri aren't as old a civilisation as the Minbari, nor have the physical attributes that would dramatically increase their population. Where has it been mentioned? EA have been doing very well but they're still in no way comparable to the heavy hitters. Minbari have EVERY factor for having a far larger population than humans of the EA, and should definately be equal to the Centauri. Their is no evidence to suggest such views and it goes against any dominating species to have such views. Instincts would overcome such views in anycase, expansion and breeding is key to survival and growth.
"Shall I then fear the tone
That breathes from world's unknown?
Surely these feverish aspirations there
Shall grasp their full desire,
And this unsettled fire
Burn calmly, brightly, in immortal air." - Felicia Hemans
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Postby Enlightened Bystander » Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:39 pm

Actually Elizar, the longer lifespan/higher quality of life improvments avaliable to the Minbari is likely to be a limiting facor on the population, if human population patterns are compared. The populations of North America and Europe are only slowly expanding now (or, in the case of some countries, even decreasing), whilst populations in the third world are exploding. Added to the fact that the Minbari have no internal conflict and very little external engagement (and those were low casualty affairs), there is no need for excessive families. Chances are that families with more than two children are extremely rare, and two is the norm
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Postby redlaco » Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:03 am

Good point Enlightened Bystander!

I also got the impression from the show that their population was dwinling before the Earth-Minbari war; the Grey Counsel eventual realisation that Minbari souls were drifting toward human bodies caused the end of the war. This belief that there is a set number of Minbari souls hint to some kind of birth control. Being highly spiritual and religious, it is highly conceivable that they restrained themselves to two children per couple as Enlightened Bystander suggested. Just my 2 cents anyway...
"Knowledge is what makes the difference between the world you want, and the world other people think you should have." -- JMS
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Postby Elizar » Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:06 am

Sorry for the late reply, haven't had as much time of late.
Enlightened Bystander wrote:Actually Elizar, the longer lifespan/higher quality of life improvments avaliable to the Minbari is likely to be a limiting facor on the population, if human population patterns are compared. The populations of North America and Europe are only slowly expanding now (or, in the case of some countries, even decreasing), whilst populations in the third world are exploding. Added to the fact that the Minbari have no internal conflict and very little external engagement (and those were low casualty affairs), there is no need for excessive families. Chances are that families with more than two children are extremely rare, and two is the norm
That is however goverened by resources and the support system in place. For example the UK already has one of the highest population density's in the world, with London being overcrowded and suffering as a result. This dictates the population limits for the country. This is not so for a species as the Minbari who have such a large territory and a bunch of planets to use. This is also not relative to the other populations represented in the show. The Centauri by comparison of the Minbari are a flagging race that will eventually become extinct, with an already declining population. With the Minbari still growing, and a greater time scale of factors that makeup the population they should have an equal or greater overall population.

Well they do have internal conflict as shown with the 'recent' civil war. 2.4 children could arguably be considered the norm.. That is still in relation to the other examples. By all rights they should be compared to the Centauri, not EA.

Redlaco - They refered to the fact that the Minbari people were of lesser quality, that something had diluted their souls... that would be Valen and Sakai. It didn't infer small populations. I believe it is said the Minbari outnumbered the humans (with the factbook restating this). Can't reall if it was regarding ships or people, or both.

Babylon 5 aide - Ok, I rebuilt my PC and its all working fine now so I rendered a few images. Not before I conformed my graphics/monitor settings to standard. :)

If you open the picture windows (it'll fail) then delete the http:// from the address line and press return, it should come up with the pictures. If not I'll create a webpage, or rename them to txt files or something.

http://www.geocities.com/darkthoruk/Onslaught1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/darkthoruk/Onslaught2.jpg

I need to add more detail to the surfaces but my texture skills are rubbish. Also made a Vorlon Fighter a while back -

http://www.geocities.com/darkthoruk/VF.html

Have made a hel'ri vorlon fighter (from a B5 book), hyperion, starfury and halfway finished an Omega... but don't have any uploaded pics of them.
"Shall I then fear the tone
That breathes from world's unknown?
Surely these feverish aspirations there
Shall grasp their full desire,
And this unsettled fire
Burn calmly, brightly, in immortal air." - Felicia Hemans
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Postby ronbogard » Sun Jan 18, 2004 6:46 pm

Elizar do you have any gaming stats for the Onslaught?

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