Q40 - Costs etc

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Q40 - Costs etc

Postby sarum » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:13 pm

Hi all,

Does anyone know:

a) how much Q40 costs per gram (or oz)?

b) how much is needed for a jump engine or star gate?

c) what is it trading status? ie restricted etc?

d) how much a Jump Engine would cost?

Thanks
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Re: Q40 - Costs etc

Postby frobisher » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:30 pm

Nothing official, but my gut feeling from the show is...

a) Lots (maybe not at gold levels but getting there).
b) Tonnes and tonnes of the stuff (say several hundred tonnes for a cruiser..?).
c) If you've got it - someone will buy it off you
d) Probably several billion credits as a low estimate (civilian jump engines are a rarity).
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Re: Q40 - Costs etc

Postby sarum » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:45 pm

frobisher wrote:Nothing official, but my gut feeling from the show is...
d) Probably several billion credits as a low estimate (civilian jump engines are a rarity).
Seems a bit high when you can buy a civilian Hermes Priority Transport for 120Mcr which has Jump Engines I assume.

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Postby Salamandersmantle » Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:02 pm

In the B5 movie ThirdSpace a raider said that Q40 is going for millions of credits a ounce.
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Postby lastbesthope » Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:29 pm

I'd say Q-40 is the most expensive thing ever.

Except spoo if it keeps on at View from the Gallery inflation rates :lol:

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Postby mthomason » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:18 pm

Just so long as they don't start making Jump Gates out of Spoo.
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Postby lastbesthope » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:24 pm

Depends if they used fresh or aged spoo :lol:

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Postby sarum » Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:14 pm

Salamandersmantle wrote:In the B5 movie ThirdSpace a raider said that Q40 is going for millions of credits a ounce.
Thanks - I have said that Q40 cost 1.2 Mcr per Oz. or 1kg of Q40 is about 42.4 Mcr.

As there seams to be no cannon on how much Q40 is need per ship I have ruled

Colossal II 1kg of Q40
Colossal III 2kg
Colossal IV 4kg
Colossal V 8kg
Colossal VI 16kg ie 678 Mcr

Note this is not the size of the jump engine just the amount of Q40 you need to make the jump engine.

I think that there are no ships bellow Colossal II (of the normal races) that have Jump Engines so I am going to say that this is a technological limit with out Ancient help. The White Star was Colossal which was the smallest of ship known that has Jump Engines but the Vorlon Transport is Gargantuan and has one. So it seams resnoble that the Vorlons can build them for smaller Engines.

So I am going to rule in my campaign that:
before 2259 only the ancients can build JE for ships below Colossal II
2259-2262 the Minbari know how to build Colossal sized ships
2262+ other races will start to beable to make them as well

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Postby Perturbatio » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:33 pm

what I would like to know is how much is consumed with each jump?

It would have to be a small amount otherwise your average person would not be able to afford to travel outside their solar system.
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Postby lastbesthope » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:42 pm

Perturbatio wrote:what I would like to know is how much is consumed with each jump?

It would have to be a small amount otherwise your average person would not be able to afford to travel outside their solar system.
I don't think Q40 is a fuel for jump gates/engines. I think you just need it as a building material. Like you need good metal alloys for engines but they run on petrol/gas/diesel.

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Postby Kizarvexis » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:49 pm

sarum wrote:The White Star was Colossal which was the smallest of ship known that has Jump Engines but the Vorlon Transport is Gargantuan and has one. So it seams resnoble that the Vorlons can build them for smaller Engines.

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The Technomage Pinnace has a jump engine and it is also a Gargantuan ship. But, they also had ancient help.

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Postby Perturbatio » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:12 pm

lastbesthope wrote:
Perturbatio wrote:what I would like to know is how much is consumed with each jump?

It would have to be a small amount otherwise your average person would not be able to afford to travel outside their solar system.
I don't think Q40 is a fuel for jump gates/engines. I think you just need it as a building material. Like you need good metal alloys for engines but they run on petrol/gas/diesel.

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That makes more sense. :)
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Postby lastbesthope » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:12 pm

Perturbatio wrote:
That makes more sense. :)
That must have been a mistake :lol:

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Postby scottmage » Sat May 21, 2005 4:17 pm

lastbesthope wrote:
Perturbatio wrote:what I would like to know is how much is consumed with each jump?

It would have to be a small amount otherwise your average person would not be able to afford to travel outside their solar system.
I don't think Q40 is a fuel for jump gates/engines. I think you just need it as a building material. Like you need good metal alloys for engines but they run on petrol/gas/diesel.

LBH
It is probbly more like a Catalyst that is required for the process of opening a vortex into Hyperspace. Just like a Catalyst does not get used up in a chemical reaction, the Q40 also does not get used up either.

They also only mentioned it for Jump Gate construction, otherwise I think after every battle where jump capable ships are at, there would be scavengers trying to get to the jump engines to get even trace amounts of Q40. At around 42,000 cr. per gram, it would make it worth crawling around a space battle debris field. Space Battle tactics would also be different, in that you would not fire on the engines so that Q40 could be recovered after a battle. So I don't believe that it is used in Jump capable ships.

The irony is that the Shadows seem to glide in and out of Hyperspace opposite of their violent chaotic beliefs that are like a punching a hole into Hyperspace.
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Postby frobisher » Sat May 21, 2005 4:55 pm

scottmage wrote:They also only mentioned it for Jump Gate construction, otherwise I think after every battle where jump capable ships are at, there would be scavengers trying to get to the jump engines to get even trace amounts of Q40. At around 42,000 cr. per gram, it would make it worth crawling around a space battle debris field. Space Battle tactics would also be different, in that you would not fire on the engines so that Q40 could be recovered after a battle. So I don't believe that it is used in Jump capable ships.
I'd kinda think you'd have to; If there was a cheaper (ie used in starships) way of building Jump Engines, then they'd use it for Jump Gates, and Jump Gates wouldn't be as "valuable". I'd put good money that battlefield scavanging is a viable, if risky profession in the B5 universe.

It should also be noted that the Jump Engines are not the same system as the ship's engines; it's likely that it you could avoid targetting the former when going for the latter. For instance, the White Star has "forward jump engines" as witessed in dialogue in it's first appereance.

A ship's Jump Engine would use much less Q40 (not a catalyst (this isn't a chenical reaction) - a component of a "field coil" more probably) than a Jump Gate, presumably because they do not need to open as large a jump point.
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Postby KaosDevice » Sat May 21, 2005 6:58 pm

frobisher wrote:
scottmage wrote: A ship's Jump Engine would use much less Q40 (not a catalyst (this isn't a chenical reaction) - a component of a "field coil" more probably) than a Jump Gate, presumably because they do not need to open as large a jump point.
Now that is a cool way of looking at it. You have esentially a Q40 Tesla Coil that opens the tear into Hyperspace. I tend to (when I was creating my Outpost 23 background) look at Q40 as Plutonium; dangerous, rare, has to be processed under very exacting conditions and so forth. But it has a decay rate that, after time, makes it useless thus furthering the need to find and extract more for new Q40 coils to power jumpgates and ships. It is an interesting point about the Shadows though as there does seem to be a quasi-mystical nature to Hyperspace. I mean, there is a reason Psionics work better there...right?

That being the case then it is a logical step to assume that First Ones level races (like were going to be in a million years, how sweet is that, I'll look fantastic in an encounter suit. ;)) don't need Q40 at all to get in and out of Hyperspace, instead relying on somesort of advanced form of bio mechanics and psionics. They certainly don't need the Hyperspace beacons, those seem to be an invention of and nessecity to Hyperspace travel for the younger races. Yet another reason to be fearfull of The Great Old Ones...well that and Zog.

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Postby frobisher » Sat May 21, 2005 9:23 pm

KaosDevice wrote:But it has a decay rate that, after time, makes it useless thus furthering the need to find and extract more for new Q40 coils to power jumpgates and ships.
Unfortunately this doesn't work. A large portion of the Jump Gate network was seeded by "ancient races unknown" (well, it's kinda easy to spot who dunnit given the which ancients we've seen, and their respective methods of entering hyperspace...) and was all still working. The younger races have all reverse engineered their Jump technology from these. Now, if they lasted for only a short time (because they used Q40) then they'd just be unknown artefacts, or the "ancients" would be actively engaged in refuelling them; If they had a special means of preservation of their Q40, then the younger races would have at least attempted to reverse engineer that too.
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Postby KaosDevice » Mon May 23, 2005 9:13 pm

Why couldn't the younger races have tried to reverse engineer the preservation techniques of the the ancients, or further why couldn't the ancient technology just be way, way more efficient then the Q40 using technology of the younger dudes (and dudettes)? For that matter why couldn't using jump engines on ships be waaaay more inefficient using Q40 then stable jump gates? I still think m ideas about Q40 are workable.

:)

frobisher wrote:
KaosDevice wrote:But it has a decay rate that, after time, makes it useless thus furthering the need to find and extract more for new Q40 coils to power jumpgates and ships.
Unfortunately this doesn't work. A large portion of the Jump Gate network was seeded by "ancient races unknown" (well, it's kinda easy to spot who dunnit given the which ancients we've seen, and their respective methods of entering hyperspace...) and was all still working. The younger races have all reverse engineered their Jump technology from these. Now, if they lasted for only a short time (because they used Q40) then they'd just be unknown artefacts, or the "ancients" would be actively engaged in refuelling them; If they had a special means of preservation of their Q40, then the younger races would have at least attempted to reverse engineer that too.
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Postby scottmage » Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:56 pm

KaosDevice wrote:Now that is a cool way of looking at it. You have esentially a Q40 Tesla Coil that opens the tear into Hyperspace. I tend to (when I was creating my Outpost 23 background) look at Q40 as Plutonium; dangerous, rare, has to be processed under very exacting conditions and so forth. But it has a decay rate that, after time, makes it useless thus furthering the need to find and extract more for new Q40 coils to power jumpgates and ships. It is an interesting point about the Shadows though as there does seem to be a quasi-mystical nature to Hyperspace. I mean, there is a reason Psionics work better there...right?

That being the case then it is a logical step to assume that First Ones level races (like were going to be in a million years, how sweet is that, I'll look fantastic in an encounter suit. ;)) don't need Q40 at all to get in and out of Hyperspace, instead relying on somesort of advanced form of bio mechanics and psionics. They certainly don't need the Hyperspace beacons, those seem to be an invention of and nessecity to Hyperspace travel for the younger races. Yet another reason to be fearfull of The Great Old Ones...well that and Zog.

"Zog yes? Zog no?"
In the Psi Corps book, it is mentioned about a Telepath that opened a Jump Point over Mars....with the power of their mind alone. Maybe Q40 is a crutch till a race is capable of opening a Jump Point mentally. Lorien sort of did that when he left the Galaxy...so did Ironheart.

And maybe that is what happened to Sheridan as well......he opened a Jump Point and went to join Lorien.
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Postby lastbesthope » Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:04 pm

Haven't read the Corps book that closely scottmage, but I'll trust you on that one.

As for Sheridan opening a JP, we did see Lorien come back for him, but then maybe that was just to show him how?

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