Questions on the Vakeros Class

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Questions on the Vakeros Class

Postby Alasi » Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:14 pm

Okay I have a few questions about the Vakeros class. The Mystic Manoeuvre abilities more specifically.

1. Mystic Manoeuvre: Battleblade: Does this count as a free action?

2. Mystic Manoeuvre: Twin Blades: It says in the ability description that the Vakeros gains an extra attack (from the offhand weapon obviously) at the Vakeros' full Base Combat Skill with all attacks in that round suffering a -2 penalty. I think it would make sense that the extra attack would be made at the Vakeros' Base Cobalt Arms Combat Skill. Was this a typo or is it correct?

So lets say I am a level 7 Vakeros. I have two blue steel shortswords. My Base CA Combat Skill is +7/+2 and my Base Combat Skill is +5. So my first attack would have a +7, my second a +2, and my third a +5? Clarification would be nice.

3. Mystic Manoeuvre: Song of Steel's True Form: Is this transformation permanent until the Vakeros chooses to change it back or does it automatically revert to the original weapon at the end of the combat? Does changing it back also cost 1 Willpower point?

That's all for now. Thanks muchly to anyone who can help.
Xex

Postby Xex » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:55 pm

1) Yes; you can have it on permanently if you want.

2) Yes, you are correct. The text means -2 to all attacks made with base cobalt arms skill.

3) The transformation is permanent until the vakeros chooses otherwise; so he can have the weapon remain in its new form for a day, or a year, or 10 years, etc. And yes, changing it back would cost one willpower, because the new form of the weapon will essentially become _the_ form.
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Postby Alasi » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:53 am

Um, I know that it is -2 to all attacks. My question was this: is the third attack supposed to be at +5 (my Base Combat Skill) or do you I use my Base Cobalt Arms Combat Skill.
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Postby Ghost Bear » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:35 am

It's meant to be at the Base Cobalt Arms Combat Skill.

If you have an extra attack from a second weapon, do you use your highest attack bonus or lowest?

For instance, using Alasi's example of his Vakeros with a +7/+2 Base CA CS, would I use (+7-2) or (+2-2) for my attack with the offhand weapon?

-GB
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Postby Alasi » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:01 pm

Ghost Bear wrote:It's meant to be at the Base Cobalt Arms Combat Skill.

If you have an extra attack from a second weapon, do you use your highest attack bonus or lowest?

For instance, using Alasi's example of his Vakeros with a +7/+2 Base CA CS, would I use (+7-2) or (+2-2) for my attack with the offhand weapon?

-GB
Yep that's what I wanted to know. I figured it would make the most sense that it would be like this.

First attack (main weapon) +7 (-2) = +5
Second attack (main weapon) +2 (-2) = +0
Third attack (offhand weapon) +7 (-2) = +5

Or maybe it would make more sense this way...

First attack (main weapon) +7 (-2) = +5
Second attack (main weapon) +2 (-2) = +0
Third attack (offhand weapon) +2(-2) = +0

Or if you follow the rules exactly and use your Base Combat Skill (not Cobalt Arms) it would be...

First attack (main weapon) +7 (-2) = +5
Second attack (main weapon) +2 (-2) = +0
Third attack (offhand weapon) +5 (-2) = +3

ERG! lol

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Postby Balgin Stondraeg » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:30 pm

I've got a slightly more basic question regarding the Knights of the Vakeros: In the gamebooks that included Paido, the Vakeros, here was a very distinct mention at the beginning of each book of his being a black man. Now I don't remember this and was actualy surprised when I went back and re read them recently (and apart from the mentions of his pigmentation in the introduction and section 1 I recall little to reenforce the impression).

I was wondering why there was no mention of the Vakeros tribes being of a dark pigmentation in Magic of Magnamund. Could someone please tell me? (And please don't say it was political correctness).

My question is: if the Vakeros are black then are the magicians of Dessi also black or not? (The LWRPG artwork seems to depict both as being caucasian with european features but according to Lone Wolf Cannon this cannot be true for at least the Vakeros who live in the same country as the magicians of Dessi who, if not of the same blood, will still have been affected by the climate and so may probably appear heavily tanned, sort of mediteranean look to them).

I do not use the word black to cause offence. It's simply easier than saying personage of a non caucaisn colouration which just happens to be of the dark persuasion or something similarly pc to that.
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Postby Ghost Bear » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:37 pm

Yep. Vakeros and Magi of Dessi are both (obviously) from Dessi, which I believe has a tropical climate. So both classes would be black.

-GB
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Postby Balgin Stondraeg » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:40 pm

Ghost Bear wrote:Yep. Vakeros and Magi of Dessi are both (obviously) from Dessi, which I believe has a tropical climate. So both classes would be black.

-GB
But since the magicians are partialy related to the Shianti it could be argued that they came to the lands of Dessi from somwhere else and, as such, are of a different racial stock to the Vakeros. That's why I might see them as being mediteranean looking (although I'm leaning towards having them as black as the Vakeros). It's something I'm giving a lot of thought to before letting players near the classes in my campaign :p.
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Postby Wannabe Drakkar » Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:32 am

Ghost Bear wrote:Yep. Vakeros and Magi of Dessi are both (obviously) from Dessi, which I believe has a tropical climate. So both classes would be black.

-GB
i disagree, tolkien was from south africa and he wasnt black, then again i always imagine wizards with a dark tan, ever since i read A Wizard From Earthsea
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Postby Guest » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:54 pm

I am pretty sure the magicians and the vakeros are both extremely tanned/brownskinned, not completely black. Dessi resembles southern Asia, from what I can gather.
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Postby Winter Wolf » Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:10 pm

I'm pretty sure that the Magicians of Dessi the older ones at least are pale skinned and the native peoples, the Vakeros are dark skinned, The magicians are not natives of dessi but came from another plane to fight Agarash and only retired to Dessi after they're decimation at the hands of the cenerese.

Regardles of what the RPG says I'm pretty sure that the game books state that the elder magi taught the native peoples battle magi i.e. the Vakeros. They are two different very racial strains, the Magicians are barely even human with there long lifespans and inate magic.

This may not be as clear cut by the time of the RPG however.
Xex

Postby Xex » Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:35 pm

Winter Wolf wrote:I'm pretty sure that the Magicians of Dessi the older ones at least are pale skinned and the native peoples, the Vakeros are dark skinned, The magicians are not natives of dessi but came from another plane to fight Agarash and only retired to Dessi after they're decimation at the hands of the cenerese.

Regardles of what the RPG says I'm pretty sure that the game books state that the elder magi taught the native peoples battle magi i.e. the Vakeros. They are two different very racial strains, the Magicians are barely even human with there long lifespans and inate magic.

This may not be as clear cut by the time of the RPG however.
The original Magician's are actually the elder magii. The magicians of dessi themselves now are the result of the elder magii consumating with the natives of dessi; these children go on to becoming magicians and vakeros.
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Postby Balgin Stondraeg » Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:25 pm

Anonymous wrote:I am pretty sure the magicians and the vakeros are both extremely tanned/brownskinned, not completely black. Dessi resembles southern Asia, from what I can gather.
He is tall and dark skinned, with plaited flaxen hair and sharp, cat-like eyes, and he wears the gold and scarlet tunic of a Vakeros--a warrior magician of Dessi. "Hail Paido!" says Lord Rimoah, bowing to this proud young man.
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His name is Paido, a tall enbony skinned Vakeros, who is a master of the art of battle-magic. Among his fellow warriors he isa high-ranking lord, respected for his skill on the field of battle. Now, for the mission that lies ahead, he has exchanged his gold and scarlet robes for the clothing of a commoner, a roving adventurer with a sword for hire.
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Now this is missleading. Fair hair and dark skin generaly look wrong together but when the skin's really dark (like nubian or that blue black that really shines) then fair hair really looks out of place. This suggests a more tanned apeparance. The Mongoose art depicts the magicians of Dessi as being fair skinned, even palid in comparisson to others (see the Dessi lass on the cover of Dawn of Destruction although, to be fair to her, the other foreground figure is supposed to be Vassagonian (or possibly Shadkine but most likely Vassagonian)). It also depicts the Vakeros with european features and fair skin (almost makes them look french). So, whilst I am certain that the flesh of the Vakeros is dark I was actualy thinking of features (I haven't checked which cultural bloodlines they come from, they could be part MAsbate, part Vassagonian etc).
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Postby columbob » Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:15 pm

Balgin Stondraeg wrote: The Mongoose art depicts the magicians of Dessi as being fair skinned, even palid in comparisson to others (see the Dessi lass on the cover of Dawn of Destruction although, to be fair to her, the other foreground figure is supposed to be Vassagonian (or possibly Shadkine but most likely Vassagonian)).
If you refer to the ready-made characters in Appendix 2 of DoD, you'll find that the girl is a Mage of Dessi and the guy is a Kai Lord born in Vassagonia.
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Postby Balgin Stondraeg » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:53 pm

columbob wrote:
Balgin Stondraeg wrote: The Mongoose art depicts the magicians of Dessi as being fair skinned, even palid in comparisson to others (see the Dessi lass on the cover of Dawn of Destruction although, to be fair to her, the other foreground figure is supposed to be Vassagonian (or possibly Shadkine but most likely Vassagonian)).
If you refer to the ready-made characters in Appendix 2 of DoD, you'll find that the girl is a Mage of Dessi and the guy is a Kai Lord born in Vassagonia.
Yes, very irregular. My point was that it could just be argued that the fellow on the front cover is Shadakine (which makes sense given that they're supposed to be related to the Vassagonians).

Did anyone else notice how much equipment some of those pre made charactes had compared to their starting money? Ah well, I'm sure it all balances out in the end (the average starting Kai Monk can barely afford clothing, a dagger and a staff let alone a sword, bow, leathers and shield).
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Postby Mark_Gedak » Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:14 pm

It was our idea in playtesting that although these are 1st level characters they have seen some adventuring in the past and have gathered some gear.

We also played it with fewer than 7 players, if you have a party of 7 I would scale back the equipment a bit but make sure each still has a melee and ranged weapon.
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Postby Balgin Stondraeg » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:06 am

Despair wrote:It was our idea in playtesting that although these are 1st level characters they have seen some adventuring in the past and have gathered some gear.

We also played it with fewer than 7 players, if you have a party of 7 I would scale back the equipment a bit but make sure each still has a melee and ranged weapon.
Arhg! Sleepless night strikes! Actualy that was going to be my exuse if the players asked "how come we've got all this stuff?"

I'll probably only have four players: one Brother of the Crystal Star one Knight/Kai Lord, one Knight/Archer (or devious criminal/scout type) and the last one depends on who I get as a fourth player. Conversly I may play with other players (those guys are action junkies and can get loud and not much fun, they'll probably have a "damage caster" (yeah, right, in Magnamund? make me laugh, make me laugh some more) or a dwarven gunner for blasting power).

It's good to give premade characters a mixture of equipment because you never know how people are going to play them :).
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Postby columbob » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:01 pm

Balgin Stondraeg wrote: Did anyone else notice how much equipment some of those pre made charactes had compared to their starting money? Ah well, I'm sure it all balances out in the end (the average starting Kai Monk can barely afford clothing, a dagger and a staff let alone a sword, bow, leathers and shield).
Check out the starting equipment for a Kai Lord, I think it's top of page 33 in the RPG book. The monastery equips its KLs with plenty of equipment, that's why they only start the game with d10+10 gold crowns.
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