Which moron do I have to flame?

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Which moron do I have to flame?

Postby Tillennium » Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:27 pm

Can anybody name the moron who wrote the bullshit about Germany, Austria and Hungary?I want to flame this brainless dude. Step up and tell us about your "education"!
Whoever it is I have a message for him. I hope that he reads this or that someone forwards this to him
Get an education or die!
I wanted to buy the B5 RPG but since this brainless peice of shitdisrciminates every non US Citizen I will boycott this product. i will avoid it at any cost and I hope thatsomeone informs J. Michael Straczynski that a racist makes his idea look bad.
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Postby ShadowScout » Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:48 pm

The person in question has his name printed in big, friendly letters all over the EA factbook.

However, the one person you have to flame is the one you see in the mirrior every morning. Because your post about this matter is worse then those few pages.

Sure, they're wrong. Sure they're following some decades-old stereotypes. Sure it was a bad idea. Sure some people will get annoyed by them.

No reason to descend to this level though.

I am Austrian BtW, and while I found it sad that we got lobbed in with the germans (which certainly is pretty far from the truth And our own, austro-typical stereotypes); I chose to be amused by this section and then discard it in my mind as what it is - something I don't like, don't agree with and won't use in my campaigns.
Don't burn a book because of one error. Or several. Not as long as the percentage is in favor... which it is in all Mongoose stuff so far.

Of course you can bring things that annoy you, or that you find questionable to the attention of others here - but do so in a civil way, and try to offer constructive advice to help them improve things.
Who knows - if you channel your frustration into making a better nationality description, you could send it to Mongoose and if it's really good they might print in in their "Signs and Portents" magazine, as replacement for the one in the EA book...
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Postby psyclonejack » Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:55 pm


Can we copy the above post into the FAQ on the way to troll, and the way to not post?

It deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat be rghit. The rset can be a tatol mses and you can raed it wouthit porbelm. The huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter, but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Re: Which moron do I have to flame?

Postby Trigati » Mon Nov 24, 2003 11:13 pm

The harsh language aside:
Tillennium wrote:...I hope thatsomeone informs J. Michael Straczynski that a racist makes his idea look bad.
This part actually has quite a point. What do you suppose would J.M.S. think about the chauvinistic part of the Earth Alliance Fact Book?

Maybe someone should present the relevant pages to him. Maybe soon.
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Re: Which moron do I have to flame?

Postby DKeith2011 » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:52 am

Trigati wrote:The harsh language aside:
Tillennium wrote:...I hope thatsomeone informs J. Michael Straczynski that a racist makes his idea look bad.
This part actually has quite a point. What do you suppose would J.M.S. think about the chauvinistic part of the Earth Alliance Fact Book?

Maybe someone should present the relevant pages to him. Maybe soon.
Considering that the book went thru approval and was signed off on by JMS, I doubt very much he cares in the least.

And how about a big round of applause for Tillennium for showing us all how to be a proper troll and resort to the most pathetic and juvenile means of attempting to make a point.

If your going to rant about something at least include a suggestion on how to fix it in the rant.

And has anybody noticed how frequently that breed of troll seems to die out after sticking their head up out of their hole and making an idiotic noise, must be mother natures method of population control.
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Postby rbax » Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:05 am

Please remember that all of this....and I do mean all of this was "supposedly" reviewed and accepted by parties who represent Warner Brothers and Mongoose before it ever hit the shelf.

As for JMS, he actually has very little rights to what goes on in this material other than as and "educated and relevant" opinion since, all of the Babylon 5 material falls under the perview of Warner Brothers. Its theirs and not JMS's so he really has little say.

That being said, if there is anyone to blame its Warner Brothers and potentially the Mongoose editors who, being English, as opposed to US, would have had a much better understanding of the Europeon view of said material and made appropiate changes. They and Warner Brothers reviewed the material and chose to accept it and print it, as is.

Now...you are certainy not the first person to lodge a complaint as to the nature of racial material, feats, etc, and in the grand scheme of things I'm sure Bruce Graw (the author of this particular supplement) having now benefited from 20/20 hindsite would not have probably included it. Simply put it was an experiment that failed.....miserably.

However, what you fail to understand is that this is a GAME. In fact, it is a GAME that is set in a future wherebye Earth History was "made up" from this moment to a point some 250 years into the future. The Earth Alliance source book itself is a PRODUCT that was created by one person trying to encompass the entire breath and scope of a world whose history alone generates full scale arguements from scolars and historians, nevermind the ongoing geopolitical concerns of this current day that manage to boggle the leaders of all nations alike. As a result things were said, assumed or stated in a manner that was expeditous and sometimes wrong.


Play the game, not the rules.

All of this is not meant to put you down or flame you or anything else other than to make you think and slow you down. Making statements like "you'll never buy this product or any others again" means nothing when weighed against the reality of the large sales that have already occured and the likelihood of continued strong sales. Racism is a nasty word that should not be flung around without first prefacing things and stating a clear case.

Make your point clearly, concisely and calmly. People will listen, comment, disagree or agree. Rant and rave and you are quickly labeled a malcontent and ignored and your message will be lost which I'm sure is not your point.

So relax....slow down....and make your point. Quote text from the book you disagree with, explain why you disagree. I'm from the United States so I certainly don't understand the depth of your concerns. In fact I've not read most of the racial stuff to date as I've been more interested in the game mechanics and the overall history of the universe rather than the innerworkings of the EA.

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Postby Aker » Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:11 am

rbax wrote:Please remember that all of this.... [...] ---- Rich
Amen. 8)
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Postby Morden » Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:55 am

As someone with a strong German heritage, I laughed when I read the description of Germans in the EA Factbook. I laughed even harder when I read the troll that started this thread. This dude clearly needs to lighten up and look in the mirror to figure out why nobody likes him.

On a separate note, what nationality is Straczynski? Any chance he's of Jewish descent? You'll also notice that in the other thread where M. Sprange discusses this very subject, he mentions that the description is the point of view of one person, but he doesn't name that person. Is there any chance that this is how Straczynski wanted Germans portrayed in the B5 universe?

Either way, I don't care. The man's a genius and he's got the stones to tell TV studios to butt out of his shows. I have more respect for him than George Lucas at this point.
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Re: Which moron do I have to flame?

Postby Neo » Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:01 am

Tillennium wrote: I wanted to buy the B5 RPG but since this brainless peice of shitdisrciminates every non US Citizen I will boycott this product.
Dude you are by far the biggest muppet of the first pedigree I have ever had the misfortune to read the post of.... sorry but there it is, not only are your comments inaccurate, misinformed and very offensive..but you didn't even have the good grace to have even the remotest inkling about what you were talking about before you spammed us with this nonsense post.

Just so you know.... and i'll try to use small words so you can keep up ;) All nationalities are covered in the book and non are given preference ver others they all have certain stereotypical traits represented for them, even the U.S. And just to open your eyes a little more Mongoose isn't a U.S company, it doesn't have a pro anyone aggenda... and would certainly never condone any were such to be put before them with a hopes to being printed.

So get a grip, take a chill pill and more importantly... Get the Facts.
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Postby LoneStranger » Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:27 am

Ah I'm glad that intelligent posters outnumber the............well...........let's call them "special" posters to prevent anyone else from sounding miseducated eh? :wink: Seriously though to the person that started this thread we've been over this in I think two other threads and while yes some people are saying this should be changed in future printings of the book most everyone does agree that you take what is there and either ignore it and go with what you know about the country or go out and do some research on how these countries actually are as of right now. And as for the feats, except for the __________ Tolerance feats, make them general dependent on the character background.

To everyone else yes I know I'm retyping what is elsewhere but I figure this is the best way and won't cause headaches from having to think too hard you know?
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Postby Old Bear » Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:45 am

This thread stepped over the line from the word go. Opinion is one thing, over reaction is altogether different. No option but to lock this down as of now.
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