Lightning Hand
- Smiling Fox
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Lightning Hand
Is the damage from Lightning Hand electrical or magical in nature or perhaps both? Would it pass a Helghast's damage resistance?
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Smiling Fox aka Redbeard

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My call would be that you would have to have electrical resistance to resist it - I would interpret that the magic creates the electricity and the target is struck by the resulting electrical bolt, not a magical one (in the same way that using a spell to drop a rock on someone's head shouldn't be affected by magical resistance)
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Weeeelll...
It *is* created by magic... so by the letter of the rules, it ought to work.
I just don't like the "physics" behind it
It depends whether you interpret it like I do, that the magic affects nature and nature does the damage, or whether you decide that it's actually a magical effect that looks and acts like electricity.
It *is* created by magic... so by the letter of the rules, it ought to work.
I just don't like the "physics" behind it

It depends whether you interpret it like I do, that the magic affects nature and nature does the damage, or whether you decide that it's actually a magical effect that looks and acts like electricity.
Matt Thomason
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Well, by that interpretation, almost no spells do magical damage. Heck, you could use that interpretation to say the bolts from a wizard's staff are non-magical as well. Slippery slope and all... You end up with nothing but magic weapons doing magical damage, which suddenly makes Helghasts remarkably powerful...mthomason wrote: It depends whether you interpret it like I do, that the magic affects nature and nature does the damage, or whether you decide that it's actually a magical effect that looks and acts like electricity.
-- dlf
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Thats pretty much how I like itKirinDave wrote: Well, by that interpretation, almost no spells do magical damage. Heck, you could use that interpretation to say the bolts from a wizard's staff are non-magical as well. Slippery slope and all... You end up with nothing but magic weapons doing magical damage, which suddenly makes Helghasts remarkably powerful...

As I said, by the letter of the rules it'll work. I'm just weird when it comes to magic and like to tone it down as much as possible

Matt Thomason
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I can see where Matt is coming with this, but that is not the Lone Wolf way! 
Magic is not toned down in Magnamund; quite the opposite.
Magical spells that cause damage are considered magical damage even if they have another type associated with them. Thus, Lightning Hand is an 'electrical' spell but does damage as a magical effect as well. If a creature is vulnerable to one or the other, they are vulnerable to the spell itself (sich as Helghasts).
Take care,
-August

Magic is not toned down in Magnamund; quite the opposite.

Magical spells that cause damage are considered magical damage even if they have another type associated with them. Thus, Lightning Hand is an 'electrical' spell but does damage as a magical effect as well. If a creature is vulnerable to one or the other, they are vulnerable to the spell itself (sich as Helghasts).
Take care,
-August
"This is a blanket apology to every god I can think of and all the ones I don't know. I have no idea what I did or in which life I did it, but I am really sorry. Ummm, my bad."
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Yup, I have to admit I often let personal beliefs overrule canon in my headMongoose August wrote:I can see where Matt is coming with this, but that is not the Lone Wolf way!![]()

Thanks, August!

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Think about it this way - in the Magnamund Companion, Banedon is able to use Lightning Hand to wound a Helghast. This means, quite simply, that no matter HOW you view magic, the answer to the question "Can the spell damage a Helghast?" is yes.
BUT, that still does leave room for the "magic creates nature" mechanic. In other words, Lightning Hand DOES create non-magical lightning. But because of the unnatural ORIGIN of that lightning, it still has enough of a magical "charge" to it to do the damage.
Or, to put it another way, if Grey Star were to use Elementalism to create fire, that fire would be non-magical. But since it was CREATED through magic, it would have the ability to wound a Helghast as well, whereas throwing an oil lantern at one would probably have no effect.
BUT, that still does leave room for the "magic creates nature" mechanic. In other words, Lightning Hand DOES create non-magical lightning. But because of the unnatural ORIGIN of that lightning, it still has enough of a magical "charge" to it to do the damage.
Or, to put it another way, if Grey Star were to use Elementalism to create fire, that fire would be non-magical. But since it was CREATED through magic, it would have the ability to wound a Helghast as well, whereas throwing an oil lantern at one would probably have no effect.
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Only if he was still magically manipulating the fire, IMO. If he just created it and then left it to burn (assuming it was actually burning something and not just existing on the stone floor), it would be counted as non-magical.ParanoidObsessive wrote:Or, to put it another way, if Grey Star were to use Elementalism to create fire, that fire would be non-magical. But since it was CREATED through magic, it would have the ability to wound a Helghast as well, whereas throwing an oil lantern at one would probably have no effect.
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No, No, No
On both a damage reduction/game mechanics and fluff explanation. Since Lone Wolf is based on the d20 game system, we have to go the higher source of the SRD for reference. Each spell that causes damage has an energy or damage type, like electricity, acid, fire, that sort of thing. If a creature had resistance or immunity to that energy or damage type, they subtract that resistance or ignore the energy completely of the spell. The same applies to breath weapons, or other magical attack forms (like the acid/cold aura of Agarashi). Now then, if a spell does normal piercing, slashing, or blugeoning damage, the Helghast's damage reduction would apply. But not in the case of weapons possessing a magical enhancement bonus, energy damage from someone hitting a Helghast with a burning torch, flaming oil, that sort of thing, as they are doing either magic damage or energy damage.
So Banedon can blast Helghasts all day long, unless they gain some type of magic resistance, electrical resistance, or he kills himself by casting too many spells. On the Fluff side, magic was granted for human and other's usage by the Gods of good and evil, and acts as the primary leveler in conflicts between the two sides, as well as the balance (psyhcic power is another thing altogether). Otherwise, Banedon becomes a crispy smoked mesquite sandwich after he runs of Endurance counterspelling the Helghasts' fire bolts. Lowering the power of magic in a fantasy world to affect supernatural foes turns every encounter with any type of them to a futile struggle. Witness the fact that every class (other than the NPC suppport classes of the Warrior) in the Lone Wolf system has some type of supernatural power or magical ability. Heroes are designed to be outstanding, not just some moron who picks up a sword or does grocery shopping to continue his mercantile skills. Case in point-Lone Wolf. He wouldn't be very heroic if he was a gas station attendant fighting the Darklords, and he always stayed one?
So Banedon can blast Helghasts all day long, unless they gain some type of magic resistance, electrical resistance, or he kills himself by casting too many spells. On the Fluff side, magic was granted for human and other's usage by the Gods of good and evil, and acts as the primary leveler in conflicts between the two sides, as well as the balance (psyhcic power is another thing altogether). Otherwise, Banedon becomes a crispy smoked mesquite sandwich after he runs of Endurance counterspelling the Helghasts' fire bolts. Lowering the power of magic in a fantasy world to affect supernatural foes turns every encounter with any type of them to a futile struggle. Witness the fact that every class (other than the NPC suppport classes of the Warrior) in the Lone Wolf system has some type of supernatural power or magical ability. Heroes are designed to be outstanding, not just some moron who picks up a sword or does grocery shopping to continue his mercantile skills. Case in point-Lone Wolf. He wouldn't be very heroic if he was a gas station attendant fighting the Darklords, and he always stayed one?
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I'm with Bewildered Badger on this one: if you go back to d20 core rules for reference damage resistance never stops energy damage from spells (by which I mean elemental damage such as fire or electricity or cold etc). And energy resistance never stops physical damage frm weapons. A nice and simple distinction (although some spells do physical damage rather than energy such as using telekinesis to hurl something at someone, the object does the damage, not the spell).
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I have another problem. The text on page 24 seems to indicate that there is a saving throw involved with the Power Word of Energy, but in the ruling no saving throw is mentioned. My personal guess would be a Ref Save to receive half damage. It would not seem unfair.
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he text on page 24 states that:
The Grand Word of Denial allows a fortitude saving throw
The Word and Grand Word of Dominion allows a willpower saving throw.
The Word and Grand Word of Entrapment allow a reflex saving throw.
The other Words of Power do not allow any saving throw (although I may need to double check that).
Now to me this means that if a saving throw is allowed then it will be stated in the word of power's description and nowhere in the word of energy's description did I see anything about a saving throw.Words of Power sometimes allow a saving throw
The Grand Word of Denial allows a fortitude saving throw
The Word and Grand Word of Dominion allows a willpower saving throw.
The Word and Grand Word of Entrapment allow a reflex saving throw.
The other Words of Power do not allow any saving throw (although I may need to double check that).
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