EA Tanks

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Natxomann
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Postby Natxomann » Sat Nov 29, 2003 12:55 am

Sorry Roman , but I much prefer the good old Arctic .
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Postby LoneStranger » Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:03 am

Yeah I know the EA beat the Dilgar and helped out the League of Non-Aligned Worlds, my statement was based more off of Babylon 5 Wars and the fact I play EA and have the worst friggin time winning. Of course my tatics leave a lot to be desired as well. At any rate this thread is still on topic since we're talking about what equates to space going tanks aren't we? :wink:

I did notice in B5W my biggest problems with the EA are lower sensor values as well as thrust ratings.
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Postby ShadowScout » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:36 am

Natxomann wrote:Sorry Roman , but I much prefer the good old Arctic.
Well, I have my own thoughts about that one - mainly that it's illogical that they managed to put something good enough to do the job into a hull 3/4 the size of an hyperion. So when I made B5W SCS for both (as a submission to the fan-made "BabCom" webzine); I thought very hard about how to best implement the CGI designers ideas while staying within game-established possibilities, without throwing stuff our of the window. It wasn't easy, but the end result is pretty nice if I may say so - the Tempest really became a "pocket warlock", while the Triton/Arctic I made an unsuccessful attmepts to pack too much stuff (what the CGI guy thought up) into too little a hull; resulting in an insufficient weapons suite and highly overstressed engines, making the design unsuitable as mainline cruiser, but adequate as light system monitor...
LoneStranger wrote:my statement was based more off of Babylon 5 Wars and the fact I play EA and have the worst friggin time winning. Of course my tatics leave a lot to be desired as well.
That's probably it - EA are one of the nasty races to play against,a nd one of the easier to play. Of course, you have to play them to their strengths - take lots of fighters and only big ships, forget maneuvering at high speed, stay slow and hammer away at the enemy with all guns blazing. I have yet to loose a game with EA (though I haven't played too many of them - I usually play Shadows, Dilgar or Centauri when my narn-player friend wants to bash some fanheads... and everything else in between from time to time... but I can telly ou that for the 2230 time period the Humies are the Worst enemy one can fight as Dilgar - their fighters match, the humies have the structure to weather Dilgar long-range firepower, and their plasma guns can really hurt the somewhat fragile Dilgar ships once they get into range...)
At any rate this thread is still on topic since we're talking about what equates to space going tanks aren't we?
In any case, we refuse to stay blindly on topic like the Vorlons would have us, but follow the discussion wherever the chaotic thoughts may take it!
I did notice in B5W my biggest problems with the EA are lower sensor values as well as thrust ratings.
So play around that - though I have to write their sensors are low only in comparison to races that have either been in space quite a while longer or stolen the tech from someone who has. But remember, whiole the big EA ships have low sensors, their fighters have great OB's, and their ship-launched missiles don't need sensors in any case. Need I say more to send you on the way to create a slightly cheesy fleet to kick some alien butt? :wink: (standard fleet - one Omega with full fighter bays and two Olympii - sure they're all slow as lead-filled tubs, but if you stay slow you cna do some nice turning -good for bringing All the Omega's guns to bear, one laser per turn- and the Olympus can do some nice missile launches to annoy your opponent - all while your fighters do the Real work. And if you get more points to play with, call an Saggie and more carriers!)
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Postby LoneStranger » Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:08 am

A good 10,000 point EA fleet would be a Poseidon chock full of Thunderbolt goodness using the remaining points for missiles for the fighters.

Although for the fleet you suggested ShadowScout, which models of ships work best in that fleet?
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ShadowScout
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Postby ShadowScout » Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:23 pm

Well, my suggestion is a bit special - just add the point values of a Omage-Alpha, two Olympus-Delta and 24 Starfuries-Aurora... yees, just 7 points below the magical 3500 so often used as standard fleet size.
Though the versions were really easy to guess otherwise too - the Omega-beta is nice, but has problems with range (it's annoying to loose your cannons to enemy fire before you get to fire them); while the Olympus-beta has some Really nasty firepower, but is hampered by a power deficit that will go much worse as the ship gets damaged in battle... (besides, it's soo illogical that I refuse to use it; as even with the power shortage it's reactor supplies too m7uch power compared to the other versions, without loosing anything - I just don't like it when things come from nowhere)

But a Poseidon with full load will ruin many a day - unless irt get's cored before it can launch that is (it has been known to happen - players running afoul of the "oh, let's keep the birds in their nest for one more turn, then launch them in his face" thought... Note - Always launch as soon as possible, you never know...). The problem with the solo poseidon is logic, and campaign work - sure, you will certainly win that fight, but a 10000 point fleet that's on the same two half-maps as your carrier will certainly destroy it with their weapons unsuitable for Flak before they get cut apart by your Starfuries, and then how are your fighters gonna get home? Which is why a big battle is best fought by a balanced fleet. But if you really want cheesy, you can convince your opponent that your carrier launches his load three maps before the fleets meet, and hangs back while your fighters start the killing. Nasty for his fleet - which is why many rule sets require you to bring the carrier to the battle too if you want to use fighters; just so you can't go the cheesy way of bringing just his fleets worth of fighters... (I see great possibilities for a bit of pseudo-ropleplaying in wargeming - have a "battle coordinator" stand by and make up some guidelines about your carriers trying to hide while your fighters are trying to engage, while his fleet is trying to find and kill your carriers before your fighters reach and kill him, then jump out and let your fighters starve, coming back in a few days to collect the suffocated bodies from the cockpits - or asking your fighteers to surrender as they are all dead in any case without their carriers to take them home... oh, makes one remember certain sea battles from WW-II history books...)
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Postby LoneStranger » Mon Dec 01, 2003 8:24 am

If you have to choose between Omega models for a lone big ship it's either the Alpha or the Gamma, if I'm right the Heavy Laser Cannons can sustain fire and I can just set it up so that all 4 forward Laser/Pulse Arrays can sustain fire. As far as the Carrier goes you always start the game with as many fighters out as you can manage at the start of the game. Besides you move the Poseidon at speed 1 and the T-bolts.......ummm.......much faster than that so they'll hit the enemy long before it can consider the carrier a target.

Another good 10,000 point fleet I did once was a Warlock, a Nova Beta, an Omega (I forget which type) and about 7 Hyperions (various models) with the special rule that you don't have to have fighters for the fleet. Unfortunately the other guy ran Hyach and blasted the front off of my Warlock first turn (sensor specialist on the scout allowing ELINT loaning to 45 hexes, luckily two or three out of the four Spinal Lasers connected). A complete cheese move and I still haven't been able to truely run a Warlock to this day (yes it was in the fleet but I didn't have a prayer of hitting any other ship and lost the forward structure block turn one and the primary block on like turn 3).
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Postby ShadowScout » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:15 am

Yees, that's the Warlock's curse - it's so imperessive, everyone will shoot it first. Plan for that - turtle and let a scout lend DEW. Especially when playing Hyach - their lasers are practically all they have in favor, because their anti-fighter stuff isn't really worth mentioning - they are big ship killers though.

If you want to use the Warlock, play it against Pak or Vree, then you'll at least get to shoot back while they kill it...
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Postby LoneStranger » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:57 pm

Actually I've found that if you shut down rear-facing weapons and some smaller guns on turn 1 you can get your profile down below zero without any help from anyone else (which you have to do since loaned EW can't take you below zero).

Oh a random thought that popped into my head is the change in how I regard the Omega now. Since the EA book came out for B5 D20 it shed some light on the "problems I had with that ship class, I've always thought it was a replacement for the Nova which isn't right. It's considered a new heavy cruiser taking over for the Hyperion which means I'm going to have to re-consider it's capabilites now.
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Postby Goldritter » Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:57 am

The Omega was ever a replacement of the Hyperion.

In Babylon 5 Wars it was desrcibed as the best mix of the Hyperion and the Nova.
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Postby LoneStranger » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:14 am

Really? Must of missed that part of the description.
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Postby rook111 » Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:45 pm

Has anyone converted the stats for the Warlock from B5 Wars over to the d20 stats? if so anyone care to share?
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Postby Greg Smith » Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:47 pm

Where does the Warlock appear? I was watching 'Call to Arms' the other day and I thought I caught a glimpse of one. Is there any more prominent appearances?
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Postby frobisher » Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:12 pm

Greg Smith wrote:Where does the Warlock appear? I was watching 'Call to Arms' the other day and I thought I caught a glimpse of one. Is there any more prominent appearances?
You're right about "Call to Arms" - it's in a couple of shots there, firing missiles, and there's just one of them present (which might tie in with the jms short fiction concerning Ivanova's new command no longer being susceptible to Shadow Influence... In my mind, I assume that particular Warlock is the EAS Titans).

It appears (and is named as a Warlock (comms chatter gives it as the EAS "Fox Fire" I think or a very similar sounding name) in the Crusade episode "Each Night I Dream of Home" where it is noted that very few were produced, so someone procuring one for a ride means they've got quite a bit of clout.

It demonstrates a pretty rapid recycle period for its jump drive at that instance as well.
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LoneStranger
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Postby LoneStranger » Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:51 pm

Ok here's what I understand about Jump Drives and how they recharge.

In Babylon 5 Wars one combat round is 10 seconds.
Most jump delays are between 20 and 24 rounds.

So 10 * 20 = 200 seconds

200/60 = 3 minutes 20 seconds

Which means in the time it takes a shuttle to warm up, launch from the Warlock class, fly over to the Excalibur, land, offload it's passengers, launch from the Excalibur, fly back, land on the Warlock class, be secured, and have the Warlock turn around to open a jump point should be about three minutes.
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Postby DKeith2011 » Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:38 pm

LoneStranger wrote:Ok here's what I understand about Jump Drives and how they recharge.

In Babylon 5 Wars one combat round is 10 seconds.
Most jump delays are between 20 and 24 rounds.

So 10 * 20 = 200 seconds

200/60 = 3 minutes 20 seconds

Which means in the time it takes a shuttle to warm up, launch from the Warlock class, fly over to the Excalibur, land, offload it's passengers, launch from the Excalibur, fly back, land on the Warlock class, be secured, and have the Warlock turn around to open a jump point should be about three minutes.
AOG never specified time/space measurements in the 2nd Edition B5W books because of the long-winded physics arguments a number of technically minded people started when those details were given specific values in 1st Edition.

That being said, your numbers sound as good as any other that has been put forth.
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LoneStranger
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Postby LoneStranger » Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:20 am

Well 10 seconds is what I heard, oh and I looked at the Warlock's jump delay and it's 16 turns so to revise my numbers........

it goes from 200 seconds to 160 seconds

160/60 = 2 minutes 40 seconds.

So that's my take on why the Warlock class can cycle so fast between jumping into normal space and jumping to hyperspace.

It could also explains why the rate of fire for some weapons is "low" compared to other sci-fi universes.
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Postby ronbogard » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:21 am

rook111
Has anyone converted the stats for the Warlock from B5 Wars over to the d20 stats? if so anyone care to share?
Using the weapons stats found on ships listed in the Earth Alliance Factbook and used a copy of the AOG Warlock. This is what I can up with. I for one cannot wait to see what Mongoose releases.
Warlock Advanced Destroyer
Statistics:
Colossal III Spacecraft; hp 850; DV 4 (-12 size, +6 agility); DP 26; Spd -; Acc 5; Dec 3; Han +1; Sensor +3; Stealth 12; SQ Jump Point, Long Ranged, Artifical Gravity; Cargo 175,000 .lb; 30 Officers, 28 Pilots, 30 Sensor Operators, 150 Crewmen
Weapons
Two HeavyParticle Cannon-See Bellerophon Heavy Defense Satellite page 136.
2 Long-Range Missle Racks;1 Front/Left, 1 Front/Right-see Sagittarus Missile Cruiser page 126.
Four Railguns; 2 Front/left/RIght, 2 Rear-see Artemis eavy Frigate page 123.
8 Twin-linked Heavy Laser/Pulse Arrays; 2 Front, 2 Front/left, 2 Front/Right, 2 Rear-see Gamma Model Omega Destroyer page 117.
Two Hex-Linked Particle Beams; 1 Forward, 1 Aft-see Gamma Model Omega Destroyer page 117.
Six Mk II Interceptors; 2 Front/Left/Right, 2 Rear/Left/Right, 1 Left, 1 Right-see Gamma Model Omega Destroyer page 117.
Craft:
24 Thunberbolts, 2 shuttles
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Postby rook111 » Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:59 pm

Thanks Ronbogard, I'm terrible at conversions and didn't have access to the AOG material in the first place.

This looks good.
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Postby ShadowScout » Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:23 pm

Nicely done, ronbogard...

One mistake though - the Warlock doesn't mount Heavy Laser/Pulse Arrays like on the Omega-gamma, it mounts tha same standard Laser/Pulse Arrays like the Nova. A bit of a difference if you look at the stats...
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Postby ronbogard » Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:11 pm

I thought the Omega Gemma and Nova had the same Laser/Pulse Arrays when I made the stats for the Warlock. Boy is my face red. :oops:

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