[CONAN] Song of the Beast-Gods

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Supplement Four
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[CONAN] Song of the Beast-Gods

Postby Supplement Four » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:24 am

FYI, Thulsa has put out a new adventure. Song of the Beast-Gods. It's so rare to find a good, low magic, high fantasy, swords & sorcery published adventure that I snap them up on sight when I find one. I ordered this one, sight-unseen from Lulu. Of course, Thulsa gets a lot of clout from me because of the tremendous work he gave us in Spider-God's Bride.
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Postby LucaCherstich » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:36 am

I've noticed it is for Pathfinder.
I know it is easy to convert to Conan d20...but I was just wondering wether there is any downloadble conversion file.
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Postby thulsa » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:29 pm

LucaCherstich wrote:I've noticed it is for Pathfinder.
I know it is easy to convert to Conan d20...but I was just wondering wether there is any downloadble conversion file.
I currently don't have any plans to provide a conversion document, but here are some thoughts: In the Hyborian Age, the city of Khadis could be a Stygian outpost somewhere in the Kharamun desert, north of the "bend" in the river Styx. The Khazraj nomads could be Zuagirs. Khazistan resembles Turan.

Conversion of NPCs should be relatively straightforward: Fighters to Soldiers, Cavaliers to Nobles, Rogues to Thieves, Cultists to Scholars, etc. Female Aristocrats could perhaps be Temptresses, while male Aristocrats are usually Nobles.

- thulsa
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The Hyborian Age d20 Campaign Site
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The Spider-God's Bride and Other Tales
http://xoth.net/publishing/xp1/
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Postby LucaCherstich » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:11 pm

What I meant was not the "fluff" stuff (I enjoy converting it) but the few crunchy stuff: AP, DR, Parry&Dodge, sorcery, etc...
I'm happy with the Mongoose Conan rpg, and have no interest in switching to Pathifinder, even if it is a roughly similar system.
I know it is relatively easy to convert things, but it is a time-consuming thing to do for all the NPCs & Monsters.
I do not know if I want to buy this sourcebook if I have to spend time converting the thing.
I really appreciated your previous adventures sourcebook, but mainly because you also provided a file with changed statistics for the Conan rpg.
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Postby thulsa » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:27 pm

LucaCherstich wrote:I do not know if I want to buy this sourcebook if I have to spend time converting the thing.
I really appreciated your previous adventures sourcebook, but mainly because you also provided a file with changed statistics for the Conan rpg.
Fair enough, and if there is enough people asking me for a conversion booklet, I would consider it.

That said, unless you are looking for an exact conversion, I think the Bestiary of the Hyborian Age combined with Vincent's huge collection of premade NPCs should get you quite far:

http://hyboria.xoth.net/characters/index.htm

Personally, I use Pathfinder these days, and I prefer to spend my time creating new material. My impression is that many people will convert or adapt the crunch to alternative systems anyway; I've heard people use The Spider-God's Bride with Barbarians of Lemuria, Savage Worlds, D&D 1E and even Cthulhu Dark Ages.

- thulsa
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The Hyborian Age d20 Campaign Site
http://hyboria.xoth.net/

The Spider-God's Bride and Other Tales
http://xoth.net/publishing/xp1/
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Postby Supplement Four » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:05 pm

thulsa wrote:Fair enough, and if there is enough people asking me for a conversion booklet, I would consider it.
I'm definitely asking.

In fact, had I known that you wouldn't be treating this the way you did Spider God's Bride, I probably would have waited to purchase it. I naturally assumed I'd have a conversion document I could download in a few days, complete like the one you did for Spider-God's.

I consider your stuff to be 100% compatible with Mongoose Conan BECAUSE of the detailed conversion guide you provided with your first adventure.

So...yes...please do the same with this work.
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Postby LucaCherstich » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:36 pm

The main point in buying an adventure written by somebodyelse is to save time with a (hopefully) good work.
I do not question the quality.
But if it makes me waste time converting numbers, it is not worth a buy.
Sorry for my pragmatic vision.
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Postby Supplement Four » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:18 pm

I got the book in today. Wow, that was fast!

I haven't had time to look at it other than to say that it looks like it's the usual Thulsa high quality material.

Two things do bother me a bit, though, right off the bat.

First, it's obvious that this work is much, much smaller than Thulsa's first outing. I was expecting this big, thick tome like I got when I bought Spider-God's Bride. That sucker is 200 pages, and I paid $23 bucks for it with shipping. Song is only 28 pages...less than 20% the size of Spider-God...and it cost $16 bucks with shipping.

To put this in perspective, the hardback Conan RPG Core rule book (424 pages) can be had, via Amazon, for $39.99 with shipping. Song is a fairly expensive adventure when seen through those glasses.

I haven't read it, but from a cursory examination, the quality sure seems to be there. But, have no doubt, this book is more expensive, per page, by a wide margin than the bargain you get with Spider-God.

I was a little let-down by this fact because, as soon as I saw Thulsa had a new work, I immediately purchased it. Now, I see it's a lot smaller supplement--a folio to the book that is Spider-God.





The second thing that bugs me is the lack of conversion notes. Thulsa supported Spider-God so well, that I expected the same for this book. Now, it looks as if Thulsa might not write Conan RPG conversion notes.

I gotta tell ya. If Thulsa keeps supporting his stuff for the Conan RPG, I'll most likely buy everything he produces. But if the conversion notes were a one-time thing, I'm not sure I want to buy a Pathfinder adventure for $16 bucks and have to convert it myself.

I'd not only like to see suggestions on Hyborian Age races and locations, but I'd like to have converstion stats for Conan weapons, Conan armor DR ratings, Conan Dodge or Parry numbers--that sort of thing. I mean, I play Conan, and if I have to convert something, I don't want to have to pay a premimum price for it.

The conversion notes is part of the value in my eyes.
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Postby johnnyq » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:48 pm

I've heard people use The Spider-God's Bride with Barbarians of Lemuria, Savage Worlds, D&D 1E and even Cthulhu Dark Ages.
Don't forget RuneQuestII!

Rusty
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Postby Hervé » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:21 am

I ordered the paper version from Lulu as soon as I got the new. After AK Mesopotamia and Spider God's Bride, I'm so glad to get nes S&S stuff from Thulsa!

The price may seem a bit high, but I feel Thulsa largely derserves some of our bucks, for all the goodies he offered us so far on his site, especially the HD modules.

The greedier among us can always get the pdf for a very reasonable price anyway...
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Postby Supplement Four » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:19 pm

Hervé wrote:The price may seem a bit high, but I feel Thulsa largely derserves some of our bucks, for all the goodies he offered us so far on his site, especially the HD modules.
I certainly think the quality is there. I actually haven't read Spider or Song yet, but flipping through it, I see little things that always impress me with good adventure writing. There's enough detail there to ignite the imagination of a creative GM. Plus, it's so hard to find a good Sword & Sorcery themed adventure that wasn't specifically written for Conan. His stuff meshes extremely well (I'm sure it was by design) with the Conan RPG.

But, yes, the price is a bit much. $12.00 for the adventure, then another $4 bucks for shipping. Heck, the Conan adventures that Mongoose published retailed for $9.95, and they were 4 pages longer (32 vs. 28).

If Song was a big and meaty as Spider (or even half the size of Spider), I wouldn't feel Song was overpriced at all. When I recevied Spider, a big smile creased across my face. When Song arrive, I tore open the package and was immediately hit with a bit of buyer's remorse.

And, I'll admit, the lack of Conversion Notes really bothers me. I mean, I saw Thulsa announcement that he had a new adventure out, and I did't even read what it was about. I immediately ordered it. Having had such a good experience with Spider, I just naturally assumed that I'd go to Thulsa's site and see a large Conversion document waiting for me to download it. When it wasn't there, I just figured that Thulsa needed some time to get it up. Now, I find out that Thulsa really doesn't want to do the Conversion notes, and that really bothers me. Those Conversion notes are part of the value I put on his work.

So I've got what I feel is an overpriced adventure (albeit, it looks like quality work) that is devalued even more to me as a buyer because of the lack of Conversion notes.

That's where I'm at, mentally. I don't think I'm the only one. If Thulsa reads this and understands that he might have mistaken the value his buyers put on those Conversion notes and then corrects the issue, I'm all happy again, and I'll be buying his next adventure (expecting Conversion notes for that one too).

If the Notes never come, I'm honestly 60-40 against buying more stuff. I give it a 40% chance because (1) he does write good stuff, and (2) he might publish something that I decide I can't live without, Conversion notes or no.

So, there you go. The thoughts and feelings of a conusmer.
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Postby thulsa » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:57 pm

Supplement Four wrote:it looks like it's the usual Thulsa high quality material.
Thank you!
Supplement Four wrote:I was expecting this big, thick tome like I got when I bought Spider-God's Bride. That sucker is 200 pages, and I paid $23 bucks for it with shipping. Song is only 28 pages...less than 20% the size of Spider-God...and it cost $16 bucks with shipping.
The product page clearly states that "Song of the Beast-Gods is a stand-alone sword and sorcery adventure module (...), a 28-page PDF".

In another post, you wrote that "I didn't even read what it was about. I immediately ordered it". I appreciate that vote of confidence, I really do, but on the other hand, the product information was readily available for you to calibrate your expectations and make an informed purchase.
Supplement Four wrote:To put this in perspective, the hardback Conan RPG Core rule book (424 pages) can be had, via Amazon, for $39.99 with shipping. Song is a fairly expensive adventure when seen through those glasses.
It's hardly fair to compare a small-press, print-on-demand adventure module with a major publisher's core rulebook, which is printed in the thousands and massively discounted by Amazon.

Song of the Beast-Gods sells for USD 5 (PDF) or USD 12 (print). Shipping is whatever Lulu charges you (I have no control over the shipping cost).

Look at Paizo's stand-alone adventure modules:

http://paizo.com/store/paizo/pathfinder/modules

These are 32 pages and sell for USD 9.99 (PDF) or USD 13.99 (print).

Expeditious Retreat Press has a series of OSRIC adventures:

http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/e/expe ... Adventures

The PDFs are USD 6 each. I recently bought one of them (The Sarcophagus Legion), and that was only 16 pages long.

Hex Crawl Classics from Frog God Games

http://www.talesofthefroggod.com/index. ... cs?start=1

These are 32 pages, sell for USD 4.99 (PDF) or USD 9.99 (print).

So I think you'll agree that Song of the Beast-Gods is priced more or less along the current industry standard.
Supplement Four wrote:I haven't read it, but from a cursory examination, the quality sure seems to be there. But, have no doubt, this book is more expensive, per page, by a wide margin than the bargain you get with Spider-God.
True, but that is because The Spider-God's Bride is a bargain, and Song of the Beast-Gods is priced comparably to other adventure modules (as shown above).
Supplement Four wrote:The second thing that bugs me is the lack of conversion notes. Thulsa supported Spider-God so well, that I expected the same for this book. Now, it looks as if Thulsa might not write Conan RPG conversion notes.
So far, there's been 2 people asking me for conversion notes for the Conan RPG. Obviously, that's not worth the effort. Like I've said before, if a substantial number of people ask for it, I'll consider doing the conversion book.

- thulsa
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The Hyborian Age d20 Campaign Site
http://hyboria.xoth.net/

The Spider-God's Bride and Other Tales
http://xoth.net/publishing/xp1/
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Postby thulsa » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:13 pm

Supplement Four wrote:His stuff meshes extremely well (I'm sure it was by design) with the Conan RPG.
Again, thank you.
Supplement Four wrote:I don't think I'm the only one. If Thulsa reads this and understands that he might have mistaken the value his buyers put on those Conversion notes and then corrects the issue, I'm all happy again, and I'll be buying his next adventure (expecting Conversion notes for that one too).
Point taken, but there needs to be a "critical mass" of people asking for this. A lot of people bought the Mongoose Conan books just for the fluff, I assume many do the same with adventures.

- thulsa
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The Hyborian Age d20 Campaign Site
http://hyboria.xoth.net/

The Spider-God's Bride and Other Tales
http://xoth.net/publishing/xp1/
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Postby Jeraa » Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:30 pm

As for a conversion guide, its completely unneeded. Its simple enough to adapt an adventure to your system of choice.

Or should thulsa include conversions for Conan d20 and 3.5 D&D (different enough from Pathfinder to include one). What about 1st and 2nd edition AD&D? I know there are people out there that still enjoy those two more than the d20 system. And you can't forget GURPS either. Where is the GURPS conversion? Or Castles & Crusades?

The list can go on. There are too many systems out there to give conversion notes for. As I said in my first line, its simple enough to convert them yourself. I've never known someone to use a published adventure 100% as its written anyway. They all get changed to fit the group better.

And Supplement Four, that will teach you to read the description. It clearly says what system it is for, and how big it is. Buying something you don't know what is isn't the smartest idea.
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Postby Supplement Four » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:06 pm

thulsa wrote:Point taken, but there needs to be a "critical mass" of people asking for this. A lot of people bought the Mongoose Conan books just for the fluff, I assume many do the same with adventures.
I understand your point. The cost doesn't bother me as much as the lack of Conversion Notes.

As I said above, I think you write some dynamite stuff. With detailed and extensive Conversion notes (like what you did with Spider), you've got me buying everything you write for my Conan game. I just proved that by buying Song as soon as I heard about it--didn't even bother to read anything about it. Without the notes, I'm sad, but honest, to say that I won't be buying anything else.
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Postby LucaCherstich » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:04 am

thulsa wrote:
So far, there's been 2 people asking me for conversion notes for the Conan RPG. Obviously, that's not worth the effort. Like I've said before, if a substantial number of people ask for it, I'll consider doing the conversion book.

- thulsa
You are right, only 2 of us asked you for conversion notes.
But I suspect many more would like them and will not buy the book, unless with conversion notes.
That's just my feeling, you do what you please, but remember this is not a Pathfinder forum, people are here because of another game system, the good old Mongoose Conan d20 (even considering the bloody ones still asking for bloody Conan RQ...).
My feeling is that the majority of people which are in this section of the forums still play Conan d20, a game system which is still kicking and alive, even if not supported by new products.
The line was not killed by lack of fans, but by bad choices by Mongoose, a company which I respect for their enormous generosity (they gave us "empires" for free!!), but which made bad choices (multiple systems? systemless gazetteer?) which were not included in their original license agreements and which made them (sadly) lose the license.
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Postby Supplement Four » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:36 pm

So far, there's been 2 people asking me for conversion notes for the Conan RPG. Obviously, that's not worth the effort. Like I've said before, if a substantial number of people ask for it, I'll consider doing the conversion book.

- thulsa



What turns me off, too, is that he seems to be saying, "Yeah, thanks for running out and purchasing my book and all, but I'm not real interested in keeping one or two customers happy. But if I have a rebellion on my hands, heck, I'll be forced to comply."
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Postby thulsa » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:32 pm

Supplement Four wrote:What turns me off, too, is that he seems to be saying, "Yeah, thanks for running out and purchasing my book and all, but I'm not real interested in keeping one or two customers happy. But if I have a rebellion on my hands, heck, I'll be forced to comply."
I'd like all customers to be as happy as possible, but since my time is not unlimited, I have to choose between creating more adventure material, or creating conversions of existing material. If very few people ask for those conversions, I will prioritize creating new material.

- thulsa
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The Hyborian Age d20 Campaign Site
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The Spider-God's Bride and Other Tales
http://xoth.net/publishing/xp1/
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Postby johnnyq » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:04 pm

I agree with thulsa 100%. More creation is better than conversion notes. I was disappointed with length of the new book, but not due to cost, just would like more of thulsa's work!

Perhaps a third party could be working on conversion notes?

thulsa, get back to writing!

Rusty
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Postby Supplement Four » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:04 am

thulsa wrote:I'd like all customers to be as happy as possible, but since my time is not unlimited, I have to choose between creating more adventure material, or creating conversions of existing material. If very few people ask for those conversions, I will prioritize creating new material.

- thulsa
The exact reason you're balking at creating the notes is the same reason it disappoints me that you haven't. IT TAKES TIME.

I've got plenty of scenarios--probably more than I'll ever play. I bought your stuff because it is basically an unlicensed Conan adventure. But, without the notes, it ceases to be that.

If I've got to do the work, I'm not interested in playing a premium price for stuff.

We're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, but I wanted you to know why you've lost me as a customer.

Anyway, that's enough about the notes. What's done is done.

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