Red Sonja in Conan RPG: Phase 2 (the stats. p.4) CC Welcomed

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Boneguard
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Postby Boneguard » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:27 pm

I finished reading Chronicles of conan 4 and 7. It gives me a good insight on Red Sonja (both a a chainshirt/hot pants version and bikinimail version)

I'm currently debating between making her a Hyrkanian Soldier
with a few level as either Nomad or Barbarian...I'm leaning a bit more towards nomads though.

In her bikini mail era I might put 1 or 2 level as temptress.


@Supplement four
You've read them so you could help me a bit. If the story ark in Chronicles 4 liked to a previous one?? The way it starts I'm under vthe impression it follows on event from volume 3. Am I right or not?

And does it continue in 5 and 6??
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Postby Supplement Four » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:32 am

Boneguard wrote:@Supplement four
You've read them so you could help me a bit. If the story ark in Chronicles 4 liked to a previous one?? The way it starts I'm under vthe impression it follows on event from volume 3. Am I right or not?

And does it continue in 5 and 6??
The Chronicles follow the generally accepted path of Conan's life--that is that he was a Barbarian that came down from the north to explore the lands of the Hyborian Age. First he was a thief, then he spent a couple of years in and around Turan, serving as an irregular, and so on.

So, in that sense, all the stories are linked, one after the other.

I would say that the first book is the most episodic (and so far, the poorest in quality, too), but even then, characters are planted that are seen in later stories. (And, the quality isn't awful--just not up to the quality, imo, of the later books. For example, there's a brilliant story that lightly touches on the god Bori and why he's an almost non-exsistent god in Conan's time.)


If you like what you're reading in Chronicle 4 and 7, I'd start from the beginning, with Chronicle 1 and get the entire story. It actually "chronicles" Conan's life as he becomes king.


Some stories are more connected in a arc, and some are single-story episodes, like any good series. For example, the War of Tarim that begins in Chronicle 3 ends in Chronicle 4, but Conan is not done with Turan, and you see more of this in Chronicle 6.
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Postby Boneguard » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:29 pm

I might do so yes, But I would probably start with 3, 5 and finish that little block and work from there.

For Sonja I got/seen so far:
skill: dancing, swimming, climb, riding, bluff, sense motive, diplomacy, search, spot, listen, knowledge(arcana), stealth, move silently
weapon: dagger, sword, whip
feat: Finesse, ?endurance?, exotic weapon:whip, improved unarmed attack, mounted combat, ?combat-madness?, weapon specialiation: broadsword

And in one book she strike 3 time when a man would strike only once, So high enough level ot get multiple attack or somekind of feat here too.

The more I read the more I get a Soldier feel out of her rathe then a barbarian feel.
Last edited by Boneguard on Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Boneguard
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Postby Boneguard » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:00 pm

The reading on Red Sonja is coming pretty good.

So far I read:
-2 of the 6 novels;
-and Chronicles of Conan 4,7 (Getting 1-3, 5-6 and will order the rest later on)

And at home
-I have Kull and the barbarian issue 1-3 (2 and 3 have Sonja stories)
-The original Red Sonya and Black agnes stories (which acted as a template for Red Sonja) as well as Kull and Bran mak morn stories.

I have ordered the reprint of:
Marvel feature 1-7
Marvel's Red sonja 1-15
which were written by Rob Thomas (the creator).

After i,m finished I'll bring Red Sonja to life in my Hyboria and then start working on a Kull RPG :)
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Postby Supplement Four » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:33 pm

Boneguard wrote:The reading on Red Sonja is coming pretty good.

So far I read:
-2 of the 6 novels;
How are the novels? I've had all six for a long time, but I haven't read them yet.

-and Chronicles of Conan 4,7 (Getting 1-3, 5-6 and will order the rest later on)
Ah! Decided to start at the beginning! Good for you!

And at home
-I have Kull and the barbarian issue 1-3 (2 and 3 have Sonja stories)
I've been thinking of getting the Kull comics, but damn! Comics are expensive, even these omnibuses and trades.

How are the stories?
Boneguard
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Postby Boneguard » Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:36 pm

The first 3 novels, I just finished the 3rd one aren't bad. They follow a very Howerdesque style with the Heroin facing superior force or unsurmontable odds, kicking ass and taking names while going about it, there's usually a setback of some sort, and wizardry to boot. The overall "Will to succeed" found in Howard's writting is also present.

One of the biggest difference is that Sonja has more of a soldier's feel then a barbarian one.

For Chronicles of Conan, yeah I figured that I might as well start from the start it would be3 more enjoyable this way.

For the Kull comics I was only looking for those 3 since they had Sonja. For Kull I will instead read Howard's short story, because yes comic can get very expensive...and that's not even counting the 8 Savage sword of conan omnibus :P
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Postby Supplement Four » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:48 am

Boneguard wrote:...because yes comic can get very expensive...and that's not even counting the 8 Savage sword of conan omnibus :P
I'm staring at the...

...stack of 20 Chronicles of Conan, with vol 21 on the way...

...8 Savage Sword of Conan, with vol 9 on the way...

...9 Conan Dark Horse trades, with vol 10 on the way...

...1 King Conan vol...

...1 Newspaper Chronicles vol...

...and 8 independent mini-series of Dark Horse Conan...


Wow. Add it all up? I don't want to.

Crazy when I think of what I can buy at the used book store for that.
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Postby Boneguard » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:02 pm

I'll stick to chronicles of Conan and the 3 Marvel's reprint of Red Sonja (From Dynamite)...for Red Sonja.

I know she also appears in Savage sword, but there's a limit to spend in comic...I need to keep some money for my RPG and WH40K habit. :P

I don't think I'll buy the Dynamite Red Sonja stuff since someone had mentionned earlier that both Sonja are different and I,m not even talking about the Queen Sonja serie either :shock:

If I ever go for them...and that's a bit if...I would go woth the first omnibus (issues 0-18 ) and probably the second one, but I would stop at the omnibus with issues 34 in it. No sense reading it beyond those.


But that being said I'm getting a good feel of Sonja through the book, I'm incline to go with say 15 level as soldier, 2-3 level of nomad, and potentially 1 level as commoner (she was sabout 20 when her family was killed), 1 level as non sorcerous scholar (she knows a lot about Arcana) and maybe 1 level as barbarian/borderer (because of her knowledge of the wild) or as temptress (more inconsciously then willfully)

See a few post above for the various skills and feat supposition.
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Postby Supplement Four » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:52 pm

Boneguard wrote:I know she also appears in Savage sword, but there's a limit to spend in comic...I need to keep some money for my RPG and WH40K habit. :P
If I were on a desert island, and I could only take one Conan comic with me (the new Dark Horse Conan trades, Marvel's Chronicles of Conan reprints, Marvel's King Conan reprints, the Dark Horse Conan mini-series, the Conan newspaper reprints, or the Savage Sword of Conan omnibuses), hands down, I'd take the Savage Sword of Conan omnibuses.

This is the best one out there. Although I'm loving the Marvel reprints in the Chronicles, Savage Sword is aimed at a more adult audience.

Yeah, Savage Sword is my favorite.

You should check it out. And, by far, Savage Sword is the biggest value, too. You get a lot of book for the price--several times the size of any of the other vols.

What to expect in Savage Sword: More "adult" themed stories and writing; B&W art; stories that are completely episodic--one tale could happen in Conan's youth while the next could be while he's king; adaptations of Howard's stories plus many other originals or Conan adaptatons of other novels.

Look at the reviews on Amazon. Definitely worth the price of admission.

$12 bucks gets you a 542 page book.


And, look at it the way I do...the money spent on Conan tales is not only money spent tales of your favorite sword & sorcery character, but also on your gaming obsessions. I look at each of my Conan comic buys as money spent for a dual purpose--the first "read" of the material, then to use the book as a "sourcebook" for my Conan campaign. These stories are adventure ideas, ready-to-use, just fill in the stats (which make them flexible, too, you can make a story a 1st level adventure or a 10th level scenario).

There's lots of great ideas in the stories that "fit" the Hyborian Age--stuff I steal, here and there, for my game all the time. Character ideas. Images of the Hyborian Age that you can share with your players (it looks like this!).

Spending $12-15 bucks on a book that is fun to read and includes all that utility? I'm in.

At least, that's how my comic/gaming dollar is stretched.
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Postby Boneguard » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:02 pm

True.

And my local comic book has all of the Savage sword omnibus right now (1-8).

as well as the Chronicle of Kull....damn it more comics to buy.
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Postby Supplement Four » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:39 pm

Boneguard wrote:And my local comic book has all of the Savage sword omnibus right now (1-8).
Well, Amazon's price of $12.21 is hard to beat. I'd be surprised if your local comics store sold it that low. But vol. 1, vol. 2, and vol. 3 together, for a total of $37.99, and get free shipping. You just need to get your total over $25 bucks for the free shipping (so buy vol. 1 and vol. 2 for $24.42, then add something else you've been wanting--or just buy vol. 1 and add something else to make the total over $25 bucks).

I find that, for Savage Sword, Amazon is the place to go. If you find a place that sells them for a lower price, please let me know.

Also remember that Savage Sword is very, very episodic--It doesn't really matter where you start or which order you read them in. Each vol. skips all over the place in Conan's "timeline".

The early vols. cover a lot of ground in published prose Conan stories--mostly Howard at first, then into pastiche authors. So, if you don't have some of these stories, or if you just want to brush up on the story having read it years ago, Savage Sword is a good way to do so.

In the later vols., you get more original stories and Conan "conversion" stories.

I especially like the prequels and sequels that is sometimes presented...stuff that fills in "gaps" in Howard's works and such.

Don't expect Savage Sword to be like the Chronicles. Savage Sword is very much an anthology where the Chronicles is an ongoing series. In Chronicles, we follow Conan and he makes the journey of his life, year by year. In Savage Sword, we skip around from story to story, one time he's a kid in Cimmeria, the next story, he's down in the jungles of the black countries, and the next he's king of Aquilonia, only to be seen in a story set in Turan with Conan as a soldier after that.
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Postby Boneguard » Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:25 pm

So essentially Savage sword is very much like Howards books, skipping back and forth in his lifetime.

Well I'm still going to focus on the DH Chronicles of Conan before switching to Savage Sword so as not to scatter myself too much...and God knows I'm good for that.


Interesting side note. In the novels one of the interesting fact was the armour.

In 1-2 she wore a scale mail bra/loose tank top and skirt (the "gift" of someone who wanted to make her his slave-concubine after he bought her and to mock her being a swordwoman). In Book 3 she loses it and now wears a armless chainmail tunic with leather pants...back to out original chain shirt and hotpants it would see,m.
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Postby Supplement Four » Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:04 pm

Boneguard wrote:So essentially Savage sword is very much like Howards books, skipping back and forth in his lifetime.
The early SS vols. focus on retelling Howard tales with some extras thrown in. Then, the pastiche's. Later, you get original stories.

For example, in SS 1, you get the stories from Savage Tales magazine, the predecessor of Savage Sword....

(Note that Savage Tales had more overlap in stories than does Savage Sword--which is why you'll see some of the same stuff below as in Chronicles.)







SS 1

The Frost Giant's Daughter (same art as in Chronicles 2 except Atali is shown naked in some panels).

Red Nails (same art as in Chronicles 4, and I think this one actually looks better in the excellent color used in that book).

Night of the Dark God (a Conan conversion from an REH story). I really enjoyed this story. It would make a great game scenario with the right DM. Reading this story is a great example of SS having more mature themes.

Dweller in the Dark (same art as in Chronicles 2)

Secret of Skull River (Conan conversion of a John Jakes story.)

Curse of the Undead Man (features Red Sonja! This is the first story from Savage Sword #1.)

Black Colossus (Original REH Conan tale told over 35 pages).

At the Mountain of the Moon God (New Conan story).

Demons of the Summit (adapted from the pastiche by Bjorn Nyberg).

Iron Shadows in the Moon (Original REH Conan tale told over 44 pages).

A Witch Shall Be Born (Originial REH Conan tale told over 53 pages).

The Sleeper Beneath The Sands (an new sequel to A Witch Shall Be Born).

People of the Dark (A Conan conversion of an REH tale).

The Citadel at the Center of Time (New Conan 43 page story)

The Forever Phail (New Conan story)

Corsairs Against Stygia (New Conan story)

Death Song of Conan The Cimmerian (illustrated poem by Lin Carter)

The Curse of the Cat-Goddess (New Conan story)

Conan The Conqueror (REH's The Hour of the Dragon told in 57 pages).





So, for just over $12 bucks you're getting 11 new or conan conversion stories, 6 REH originals, 1 pastiche story, and 1 illustrated poem.

Compare that to the 8 stories you get in Chronicles 1. 18 stories vs. 8. Even if some of duplicates, Savage Sword is a bargain (at a less expensive price than Chronicles, too).

Now, move ahead to Savage Sword 8, and find way over 500 pages of all new Conan stories--no adaptations of pastiches or REH tales. Wow. For $14 bucks? I'm in.







As I said above, the stories are intended for a more mature audience. The topics are not so much "kill the monster" or "kill the sorcerer" as they are in Chronicles--you do have some of that, but they are told in a more complex way. Also, the stories can be much longer than anything you'll find in Chronicles--lots of multi-issue "novels"--are included in SS for a more mature attention span. And, the art tends to be a bit more graphic.
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Postby Boneguard » Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:27 pm

Mmmm nice,

Well I still gonna start with the Chronicles and see from there...I already have a lot of books other then Howards to read...God I spend way too muck on books.


Then again as you said, it does provide some good idea for adventure.
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Postby Supplement Four » Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:04 pm

Boneguard wrote:Well I still gonna start with the Chronicles and see from there...I already have a lot of books other then Howards to read...God I spend way too muck on books.
I hear ya. I'm just letting you know what's out there. I do like the Chronicles, A Lot. I like the grand tale that is spun, following Conan from one place to another.

Still, the Savage Sword tales are my favorite. I like the more complex, more mature presentation. I was just looking through them. In SS 4, there's the adaptation of Conan The Buccaneer. It's 164 pages long! We'll never see anything like that in the Chronicles. That's longer than most of the 8-story Chronicle vols.

Oh, and if you haven't read them, the new Dark Horse stuff is amazing, too--kinda like the mature writing and presentation of SS with the serialization of Chronicles, plus fantastic art.

You'll want to start with Conan Book 0 - Born on the Battlefield. This is my favorite. I absolutely love the art in this one. The artist was only used for this one selection of stories, but, damn, he hit the nail on the head, imo. Cary Nord is awesome, too, but I like the look of BotB better.

Click on the link and use the "Search Inside This Book" feature to see some of it.

Then, you'll move onto Conan Book 1 - The Frost Giant's Daughter And Other Stories, collecting all of them until the latest, Conan Book 9 - Free Companions (and Book 10 is about to come out: Conan Book 10 - Iron Shadows in the Moon

These books give you amazing visuals and great story-telling, with plenty of new, original stories sprinkled among the Howard adapations, presented in a serialized, chronological format.

Excellent stuff.
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Postby Supplement Four » Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:34 pm

Supplement Four wrote:Curse of the Undead Man (features Red Sonja! This is the first story from Savage Sword #1.)
BTW, did you catch the Red Sonja story in SS 1?



EDIT: This is Interesting! You've got Chronicles 7, right? Read the essay at the back of the book. It sheds a lot of light on Curse of the Undead Man, explains how it was written for Chronicles (should be the first story in vol 7), and how it ended up being the first story in Savage Sword #1.

Neat stuff.
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Postby Boneguard » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:53 pm

Supplement Four wrote:
Supplement Four wrote:Curse of the Undead Man (features Red Sonja! This is the first story from Savage Sword #1.)
BTW, did you catch the Red Sonja story in SS 1?
Yep I noticed, and it's just a matter of time.
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Postby Supplement Four » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:36 pm

Boneguard wrote:Yep I noticed, and it's just a matter of time.
Make sure to read the essay in Chronicles 7. I'm just now getting to book 7, and I'm going to re-read that Red Sonja story in Savage Sword 1 before I begin Chronicles 7 since that is how it was originally intendend.

In the SS story, I wondered to Conan's mention of seeing Sonja before. Since it was in SS,it could have referred to anything. Now, I realize he's talking about when he first met her during the Tarim War, shown in Chronicles. That story in SS is the second time Conan meets Sonja.
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Postby Boneguard » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:43 pm

Almost finished with the Red Sonja novel, I'm now at book 6 of 6.
Supplement Four wrote: People of the Dark (A Conan conversion of an REH tale).
Oh yes I remember that story...qui easily converted since the Hero's name is Conan the Gael. It was a modern story, in which the Heroes has a flash back to his Gael past life and reparing a mistake from that past.

That Conan is the predecessor of our Cimmerian.

IIRC there were degenerate snakeman (Kull and Lovecraft) as well as Tsathoggua (in an oblique reference)

Edit:
Does the SS1 have all of the stories of the first issues or only some of them? The old Savage Sword magazine #1 had 5 or 6 stories, 2 of which are Red Sonja's.
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Postby Supplement Four » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:04 pm

Boneguard wrote:Does the SS1 have all of the stories of the first issues or only some of them? The old Savage Sword magazine #1 had 5 or 6 stories, 2 of which are Red Sonja's.
On the credits page it says: "This volume collects selections..."

I'm assuming it is collecting just the Conan stories as the Kull and Red Sonja stories are going into their respective books. And, according to THIS WIKI, that's a good assumption. Vol 1 contains the two Conan stories but not the Red Sonja only story, the article on Conan's Women Warriors (though I'd like to see that), nor Blackmark #1.

Looks like they're cutting out the stories featuring Conan and putting them together to make the Savage Sword vols. Note how the Conan/Red Sonja story is included but the Red Sonja-only story is not.

I bet they the Red Sonja only story will make it into another book--just as has the King Kull stories (into Savage Sword of Kull).

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