Red Sonja in Conan RPG: Phase 2 (the stats. p.4) CC Welcomed

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Boneguard
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Postby Boneguard » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:46 am

True a fair assumption.

I'll try to get my hand on the original comic because the other Red Sonja story is a follow-up to Song of Red Sonja.

edit:
Finished the 6 novels, I'm able to work out skills and some feat, but I'm stump on the geas.

Do I go Geas, curse or Demon??
Supplement Four
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Postby Supplement Four » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:46 pm

Boneguard wrote:I'll try to get my hand on the original comic because the other Red Sonja story is a follow-up to Song of Red Sonja.
Savage Sword #1 might be a pricey item just to get the one story. I'd bet money that we're going to see that story in some Dark Horse reprint.

You could always e-mail them and ask them. I think I heard of a Savage Sword reprint in the works containing all the "other" stuff, sans Conan and Kull.


Finished the 6 novels, I'm able to work out skills and some feat, but I'm stump on the geas.
Opinion on them? As I said, I've had them for years, but I've never been in a rush to read them (mainly because I'm a bit skeptical about Red Sonja as a character in the Hyborian Age).


Do I go Geas, curse or Demon??
I'm the wrong person to ask about that. Since my campaign focusses on Cimmerian Barbarians, I've so far had little to do with sorcery or demons and haven't read much in the rule books on that subject (other than using demons as "monsters" to fight).
Boneguard
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Postby Boneguard » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:37 pm

Supplement Four wrote:
Boneguard wrote:I'll try to get my hand on the original comic because the other Red Sonja story is a follow-up to Song of Red Sonja.
Savage Sword #1 might be a pricey item just to get the one story. I'd bet money that we're going to see that story in some Dark Horse reprint.

You could always e-mail them and ask them. I think I heard of a Savage Sword reprint in the works containing all the "other" stuff, sans Conan and Kull.
True I could...well I found a descent copy for 20$ It gives me 2 Sonja stories and a bit extras...I know It's a bit pricey, but not as bad as some of the other price I saw 100$+

Supplement Four wrote:
Finished the 6 novels, I'm able to work out skills and some feat, but I'm stump on the geas.
Opinion on them? As I said, I've had them for years, but I've never been in a rush to read them (mainly because I'm a bit skeptical about Red Sonja as a character in the Hyborian Age).
They were not bad. A bit repetitive in the theme of facing the Sorcerer, but at least they were different wizards and the conflict were different enough so it wasn't boring. Sonja clearly appear as a Soldier with some woodland and horseman skill and not a barbarian.

The adventures takes place in Koth, The waste between Zamora and Turan, Aquilonia, Shadizar, some place East of Shem/Stygia and Brythunia respectively...and you have some well developped side character too.

Supplement Four wrote:
Do I go Geas, curse or Demon??
I'm the wrong person to ask about that. Since my campaign focusses on Cimmerian Barbarians, I've so far had little to do with sorcery or demons and haven't read much in the rule books on that subject (other than using demons as "monsters" to fight).
I see, that's the general use of them after all.
Mach5RR
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Postby Mach5RR » Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:53 am

Boneguard wrote:True a fair assumption.

Finished the 6 novels, I'm able to work out skills and some feat, but I'm stump on the geas.

Do I go Geas, curse or Demon??
Unless she's a PC, it doesn't matter and its merely background flavor.

In a sense, all Scáthach did was grant her a couple of levels in some fighting class with the provision of lying with no man who has defeated her in combat. Sonja has demonstrated over and over that she will not defy that provision, and without that willingness to defy it, discussing what it is is moot.

Now, the fun begins if you play Sonja with the mindset of breaking the pact. The simplest way is to operate it like Crom's gift to the Cimmerians (p 17 of the Conan 2nd ed). It doesn't matter if Scáthach is real, Sonja believes she granted her the abilities and will suffer the punishment is she violates the pact.

And what is the downside if she does violate the pact? Does she incur negative levels to match what was given to her? Does she convert to a same level commoner? The pact merely states that she is not to lie with a man who has not defeated her, but everyone merely infers that as a loss of the given skills if she violates it, but what if something more sinister happens. Imagine Sonja finding out that the other shoe is not a loss of skills (as knowledge cannot be taken away), but either a loss of her life or worse - her lover's life.
Boneguard
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Postby Boneguard » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:05 pm

Mach5RR wrote: Unless she's a PC, it doesn't matter and its merely background flavor.
This is true and in essence she will be like Conan, a Hero that runs around and kickass, but not a PC. At best the player might cross her along the road, but nothing more and nothnig permanent.
Mach5RR wrote: In a sense, all Scáthach did was grant her a couple of levels in some fighting class with the provision of lying with no man who has defeated her in combat. Sonja has demonstrated over and over that she will not defy that provision, and without that willingness to defy it, discussing what it is is moot.

Now, the fun begins if you play Sonja with the mindset of breaking the pact. The simplest way is to operate it like Crom's gift to the Cimmerians (p 17 of the Conan 2nd ed). It doesn't matter if Scáthach is real, Sonja believes she granted her the abilities and will suffer the punishment is she violates the pact.

And what is the downside if she does violate the pact? Does she incur negative levels to match what was given to her? Does she convert to a same level commoner? The pact merely states that she is not to lie with a man who has not defeated her, but everyone merely infers that as a loss of the given skills if she violates it, but what if something more sinister happens. Imagine Sonja finding out that the other shoe is not a loss of skills (as knowledge cannot be taken away), but either a loss of her life or worse - her lover's life.

Thats a good point.

Sonja was in her late teens or early 20s when it occured. so we can guess that she was a commoner, maybe 4th-6th level is not a bit higher.

So her pact could have switched those into Soldier level allowing her to defeat her opponent. So if she breaks the pack she revert to a commoner (with the appropriate lost of Feat, skill and abilities), which at high level would be a bit crippling bt not so much.

Another interesting fact was that I read that when she tried to defend her family she couldn't lift her father's sword...so I'm wondering if it was because of low strength (thus boosted by the Pact) or she was simply unskilled (did not have the martial skill(broadsword).
Boneguard
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Postby Boneguard » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:47 pm

OK.

Now I've Read all of the Red Sonja novel, I read REH The Shadow of the Vulture as well as the Dark Agnes book...and I have on hand all of the Marvel Comic Red Sonja series...as well as the Conan the Barbarian one where she is introduced.

I should be able to whip out a 1st version by the end of the month.


And should be followed by my Kull DYI RPG :)
Boneguard
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Stats block

Postby Boneguard » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:27 pm

Insteads of starting a new thread, I figured I might as well continue this one. and go from there.

But before moving on a little recap of what I shall do (CC are always welcome).

After reading a lot about Red Sonja (both the Red Sonya and Dark Agnes story; the Marvel Red Sonja (all 3 series) and some of the conan the Barbarian verison and finally the 6 Red Sonja novel), there seems to be 2 Red Sonja to consider:

Red Sonja #1 : Before she took the vow.
Red Sonja #2 : After she took the vow.

Before taking the vow, she was a simple famrgirl/homesteader's daughter who was secretly learning ot use the broadsword but when came time to defend her family she sould not lift her father's sword, resulting in her raping and almost getting burn alive.

Thus my fist step will be do do a pre-vow red Sonja and make her a 5th level commoner, with the dagger as weapon. and one of the following stats:
Str 7, Dex 11, Con 10, Wis 13, Int 13, Com 16.
Str 7, Dex 16, Con 10, Wis 11, Int 13, Com 13.
Thus indicating her inability to defend herself properly when needed.

and my second step:
Her Post-vow stats would be 20th level (15 soldier*, 3 nomad, 1 bordere, 1 temptress/scholar).

Her vow would have had the following:
Doubled her strength, boosted her other physical stats by 5-6, converted her commoner level into Soldier with all of the appropriate feat.

Breaking her vow will therefore cause her to physically weaken, lose feat and skill and become a 5th level commoner, 10th fighter, 3rd nomad, 1 borderer, 1 temptress/scholar.

Edit:
The AD&D 2nd edition version was:
Fighter 11
str 14, Int 17, Wis 10, dex 17, con 11, cha 18
and failure to keep her vow would drop her strength to 8, her dex to 11, and her con to 7.

That's a bit where I got the idea.
Boneguard
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Postby Boneguard » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:54 pm

Red Sonja, Before her vow
Medium Humanoid (Hyrkanian commoner 5)
Hit Dice: 5d4+5 (20hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft.
Dodge Defence: 13
Parry Defence: 11
Base Attack Bonus/Grapple: +2/+0
Attack: knife +0 melee
Special Attacks: As Hyrkanian
Special Qualities: As Hyrkanian, illeterate
Space/Reach: 5 ft. (1)/5 ft. (1)
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +1
Abilities: Str 7, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 16
Skills: Climb +0; Craft (Herbalism) +3; Craft (Tailor) +4; Handle Animal +9; Heal +1; Hide +2; Knowledge (Local) +3; Knowledge (Rumor) +3; Listen +2; Profession (Farmer) +7; Ride +2; Search +2; Spot +2; Survival +3; Rope Use +3

Feats: Animal affinity, Endurance, Skill focus (farmer)
Reputation: 0
Code of Honour: Civilized
Allegiances: Family
Possessions:

Red Sonja, Immediately after having accepted her vow.
Medium Humanoid (Hyrkanian Soldier 5)
Hit Dice: 5d10+10 (54hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 30 ft.
Dodge Defence: 15
Parry Defence: 15
Base Attack Bonus/Grapple: +5/+7
Attack: Broadsword +8 melee (1d10+4, 19-20/x2)
Special Attacks: As Hyrkanian, battle formation (skirmisher)
Special Qualities: As Hyrkanian, illeterate, Officer
Space/Reach: 5 ft. (1)/5 ft. (1)
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 16
Skills: Climb +4; Craft (Herbalism) +5; Craft (Tailor) +7; Handle Animal +9; Heal +1; Hide +6; Intimidate +5; Knowledge (Local) +6; Knowledge (Rumor) +5; Knowledge (Warfare) +5; Listen +4; Profession (Farmer) +7; Ride +7; Search +6; Sense motive +1; Spot +2; Survival +3; Rope Use +5

Feats: Animal affinity, Endurance, Skill focus (farmer), two-weapon combat, weapon focus (broadsword), weapon specialisation(broadsword), improved unarmed attack. Fighting madness
Reputation: 8
Code of Honour: Mercenary
Allegiances: The red Goddess Scáthach, The Shade of her family
Possessions: Father's broadsword

Gift of Scáthach:
Commoner level became soldier levels.
+7 str, +4 Dex, +2 Con, +3 Int statistics increase.
Automatically gain Fighting-Madness
Geas: Cannot lie with a man who has not bested her in combat.
Last edited by Boneguard on Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
Boneguard
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Postby Boneguard » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:41 pm

Ok he is my Version of Red Sonja. As always Constructive Criticisms, comments and suggestions are welcome

Red Sonja She-Devil with a Sword
Medium Humanoid (Hyrkanian Soldier 12/nomad 5/ Temptress 1/Borderer 1/Scholar 1)
Hit Dice: 9d10+1d6+108 (183hp)
Initiative: +17
Speed: 30 ft.
Dodge Defence: 29
Parry Defence: 26
Base Attack Bonus/Grapple: +18/13/8/3 // +22
Attack: Broadsword +24 melee (1d10+6, 17-20/x2), Dagger +23 finesse (1d4+4, 19-20/x2)
Full attack: Broadsword +24/19/14/9 melee (1d10+6, 17-20/x2); Dagger +23/18/13/8 finesse (1d4+4, 19-20/x2); Broadsword +24 melee (1d10+6, 17-20/x2) and Dagger +23 finesse (1d4+4, 19-20/x2)
Special Attacks: As Hyrkanian, battle formation (skirmisher/fighting spirit/light cavalry), Nomad Charge+1, Zingaran Fencing (Move away from attack), Aquilonian Fencing (Impressive lunge, Advantage of the sword)
Special Qualities: As Hyrkanian, Officer+1, Favoried terrain(plain)+2, Born to the saddle, Comeliness, Savoir-Faire, Favored terrain(forest)+1, Knowledge is power
Space/Reach: 5 ft. (1)/5 ft. (1)
Saves: Fort +16, Ref +17, Will +16
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 21, Con 18, Int 20, Wis 16, Cha 22
Skills: Balance +7; Bluff +14; Climb +9; Craft (Herbalism) +8; Craft (Tailor) +9; Diplomacy +15; Disguise +8; Escape Artist +4; Gather information +15; Handle Animal +18; Heal +8; Hide +11; Intimidate +18; Knowledge (Arcana) +10; Knowledge (Fencing: Aquilonian Style) +10; Knowledge (Fencing: Zingaran Style) +7; Knowledge (Geography) +8; Knowledge (Local) +8; Knowledge (Rumor) +7; Knowledge (warfare) +9; Listen +14; Move silently +12; Perform (Dance) +10; Profession (Farmer) +10; Ride +21; Search +15, Sense motive +9; Spot +11; Survival +13; Swim +2; Rope Use +11; Tumble +6
Feats: Animal affinity, Endurance, Skill focus (farmer), two-weapon combat, weapon focus (broadsword), weapon specialisation(broadsword), improved unarmed attack, Fighting-madness, mounted combat, exotic weapon (whip), track, ride-by attack, dodge, parry, skill focus(survival), combat expertise, greater weapon focus (broadsword), Iron will, diehard, Intricate swordplay, Blind-fighting, Improve critical(broadsword), Mobility, spirited charge, Greater weapon specialisation(broadsword)
Reputation: 30
Corruption: 2
Code of Honour: Mercenary
Allegiances: The Red Goddess Scáthach, The Shade of her family
Possessions: Father's broadsword, dagger, bikini scalemail

Languages: Afguli, Aquilonian, Argossian, Corinthian, Hyperborean, Hyrkanian, Kothic, Orphirean, Shemitish, Zamoran, Zingaran.

Gift of Scáthach:
Commoner level became soldier levels.
+7 str, +4 Dex, +2 Con, +3 Int statistics increase.
Automatically gain Fighting-Madness
Geas: Cannot lie with a man who has not bested her in combat.
Last edited by Boneguard on Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
Supplement Four
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Postby Supplement Four » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:59 am

Boneguard wrote:Abilities: Str 18, Dex 21, Con 18, Int 20, Wis 16, Cha 22
These stats seem in-line for what's given for King Conan in the Road of Kings book, but I disagree with both sets of stats.

These stats make Conan and Red Sonja invincible, and as I read the books, a seasoned veteran could still be a threat to even Conan as a King. I'm not talking about a 20th level hero, but more like a 10-15 Captain of the Guard.

Hell, even the Barbarian Chiefs up in Cimmerian should be somewhat of a challenge, but according of the game, these guys run in the 8-10 level range (and I agree with that).

The game should "live" in the 1-10 range, with very rare, almost god-like beings above level 15.
kintire
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Postby kintire » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:08 pm

more like a 10-15 Captain of the Guard.

A 10-15 captain of the guard could easily have an attack bonus of 15-20, a definite threat to a Dodge defence of 29.
Supplement Four
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Postby Supplement Four » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:34 am

kintire wrote:
more like a 10-15 Captain of the Guard.

A 10-15 captain of the guard could easily have an attack bonus of 15-20, a definite threat to a Dodge defence of 29.
What about an 8th clan chieftain?
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Postby kintire » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:59 pm

BAB 8, Str +3, Wpn Focus +1 = 12, so he'd be looking for 17. If he brought along a couple of his clan to flank he could drop that to 15. Not someone who could be ignored, although he'd need a lot of support to actually win, of course.
Boneguard
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Postby Boneguard » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:03 pm

I did consider this. Like Kintire I did a few stats run and figure out it did balance out at the end.

One on one she's pretty tough. But if swarmed she can be in trouble real quick.


Next step now is reading the Kull Comic books (I read the Howard Stories) and do a quick DIY Kull RPG using the Conan RPG as basis and just creating new Racial Template.
Supplement Four
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Postby Supplement Four » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:47 pm

Bone,

If you still have questions about Red Sonja, Vincent is a good person to ask. His web sites are dedicated to both Conan and Sonja.
Boneguard
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Re: Red Sonja in Conan RPG: Phase 2 (the stats. p.5) CC Welcomed

Postby Boneguard » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:16 am

Well, I've recently returned to Sonja and realized some of her skills were a bit off (a bit ot be expected as she was one of my first character done). I've cleaned up her skills and she should be ok now.

Now, to my other projects to complete.

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