Human Shield Maneuver

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Mymyr
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Human Shield Maneuver

Postby Mymyr » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:10 pm

Can someone explain if the maneuver "Human Shield", can be used to parry all the attacks in a round...???

ie: NPC grapples one of the PC, and use the grappled PC as a human shield to defend himself from another PC's attacks, should it be only for the first attack or can it be used for all the attacks on that round???

Another one, making the assumption that the attacking player has sneak attack, and that he/she doesn't hit the NPC, then the other PC (the one that is grappled by the NPC) would take damage from sneak attack as well???
Mymyr
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Postby Mymyr » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:11 pm

Cool, interesting thought about sneak attack...I wouldn't had put it that way, but very valid now that you mention it...
cerebro
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Postby cerebro » Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:45 pm

I would say NO,as a victim to this move by Mymyr. A guy tossing another guy around blocking three attacks seems wrong and impractical. I would say one time for round.

Were can we get an official answer?.
Supplement Four
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Postby Supplement Four » Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:32 pm

Reading the maneuver in 2E, it looks like its meant for a single opponent. It's a single immediate action--not several immediate actions. The rule says "...and is now being attack by another opponent...." That's singular--not plural. It's not "opponents".

Plus, common sense should kick in. If Conan is grappleing, and an enemy comes from his right and his left, Conan needs to choose which way he'll swing the human shield. Like the above poster says, it's comic-booky to think that Conan can yank the shield to his right, then to his left quick enough to block blows. That's not a rag doll he's using as a shield. It's most likely a burly soldier who is not cooperating.
Jacek
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Postby Jacek » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:17 pm

Nialldubh, from what I understand you were on the ground while defending yourself with the body of the other guy, right? In that case it didn't really require much strenght to maneuver nor was there much momentum of the limp body to counter with each attack.

The book maneuver, however, speaks of a standing maneuvering and I think that's what Supplement Four's talking about.
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Jacek
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Postby Supplement Four » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:23 pm

Jacek wrote:The book maneuver, however, speaks of a standing maneuvering and I think that's what Supplement Four's talking about.
I hadn't considered being on the ground, true. Still, I think, if a person is on the ground with someone on top of him (they're grappleing), it would be difficult to shift that body so that it blocks the kicks of three other attackers, all kicking within a six second period.
cerebro
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Postby cerebro » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:51 am

Nialldubh wrote:Maybe so Jacek, but I concider myself at that time about Str 13, imagine a Character like Conan Str 18+ picking up a average Man and swinging him about like a Rag doll :)

Had to swing body from one side to other as they where on both sides of my prone body, I think in some forms I was alittle enraged, giving me extra strength, plus Alcohol may have boosted that :)

Evan if they where 1st lvl Commoners, I still had -4 to PV as I was prone and not one touched me, at 1 attack each per round and they where kicking fast and furious, I blocked 5 Attacks per round, lucky extra Str boost my parry Value lol :)

Nice to have you back S4, you been on holiday or somrthing ? :)
Aaanyywaaayy....

Cool,I will assume its fair.
Jacek
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Postby Jacek » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:35 am

Nialldubh wrote:plus Alcohol may have boosted that :)
Sufficient volume of alcohol would relax your muscles for sure so maybe it could add you some PV :) And if there's a big enough ST gap between two characters then who knows?



Supplement Four, the time limit you've stressed is a good remark. Still, the guy under such a shield is much less exposed than a standing one so he won't suffer as much. Right?
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Jacek
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Postby Supplement Four » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:18 pm

Jacek wrote:Supplement Four, the time limit you've stressed is a good remark. Still, the guy under such a shield is much less exposed than a standing one so he won't suffer as much. Right?
Sure, but he's also much less "maneuverable" with the shield. Those above him would kick and jab their swords where they can hit him, I would think.

Plus, think of what's going on. The character is grappleing with the opponent designated as a shield. That's a big job in and of itself. And, then we're expected to believe that the character can use this shield to block every incoming attack? What if five guys surround the player and poke their swords at him?

I think that's abuse of the rule, and I truly believe it was written for one blocking move--because I can buy that you're grappleing/wrestling with someone and them force them to come between you and a sword thrust, but I can't buy that you start slinging this guy around like a metal shield, using him to block blows from several two or three or five attackers.
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Postby Jacek » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:54 pm

When it comes to per-book use of Human Shield, I'm with you entirely. I'm also convinced it's intended for defending oneself against one attack only and I think that's the way it should be.

The discussion of on-ground use of human shield was just theory spawned on basis of Nialldubh's experiences.
Cheers,
Jacek
Supplement Four
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Postby Supplement Four » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:28 pm

Jacek wrote:The discussion of on-ground use of human shield was just theory spawned on basis of Nialldubh's experiences.
Yeah, I saw that in the thread. Its easy to assume two people, while grappleing/wrestling, are standing up. I guess because one has to successfully grapple someone before one or the two of them go to the ground.

But, in a later round, I could see the Human Shield maneuver used even if both combatants were on the ground. I'd still only allow it for one attack, though.
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Postby Jacek » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:38 pm

GM decides in the end.
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Jacek
Mymyr
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Postby Mymyr » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:44 pm

Thanks for all the info about this maneuver, the ones that were based on practical experience instead of rules were very enlightening...

But for the sake of my players I think that at the end your are right, Human Shield was meant for one attack only, but as I said, this discussion have given me a lot of new ideas on the matter of grappling in the Conan System...on another subject entirely...it's a shame that the system will no longer be on Mongoose expert hands, this I believe is a loss to the RPG world, for me Conan is the only D20 system that really works when it comes to realism and lethality...but enough said, thanks for the insight...:)
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Postby Supplement Four » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:11 pm

Mymyr wrote:...on another subject entirely...it's a shame that the system will no longer be on Mongoose expert hands, this I believe is a loss to the RPG world, for me Conan is the only D20 system that really works when it comes to realism and lethality...but enough said, thanks for the insight...:)
It's the only d20 based game I play!

And, just because it's no longer being published, that won't mean I won't continue my campaign and get years of use out of this beast.

Mongoose created a fantastic game. I'm going to keep playing it.

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