Heroes Review

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Sir Brad
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Heroes Review

Postby Sir Brad » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:21 am

OK Every product has Flaws, it's an unavoidable Law of the Universe, but those of Heroes of Magnamund are tough to tie down as most of them may be a flaw for one person but feature for an other.

But there is One that sticks out like Male K9 Reproductive Anatomy, the Character Sheets, Mongoose had a chance to give us a generic Character Sheet for the RPG instead 24 pages where used to print fuzzy screen captures of the Draft Document with the Spell Check lines still visible on most.

Over all I'd like to give the Book a A-, but the lost opportunity and pages that where arguably wasted on the character sheets we where given knocks it down to a B+

Apart from that one gripe I'm very happy with the book, Keep up the good work.

I'll go in to more detail when I can steal it back as it came yesterday morning and walked off with one of my regular players at the end of last nights game, just got to figure out who has it as they where all spazing out over it last night, I've eliminated two suspects as they have both tried to call "Dibs" on it for when it comes back, three to go.
Random Code
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Postby Random Code » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:28 am

Heh, heh... They were particularly bad weren't they? I especially like the (I''m guessing) red squiggly lines under 'Dwarven' and 'Bor'. Damn that spellchecker!!! Character sheets created by the game maker are invariably disappointing and often require hacking apart or redoing but these were very smelly!

You could always use the one I've just made: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB ... hp?t=44196

:wink:
Sir Brad
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Postby Sir Brad » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:48 am

Already DL'ed that one and gave some feed back

Edit: on the topic of the Character Sheets they look like somthing you'd expect to be spat out by a mid 80's Desk Top Publishing program, I've got a cabinet full of Small Press Games from that Era done with a DTP program that are fantastic, But......
Plageman
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Postby Plageman » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:44 am

If Mongoose does another book like HoM here's my advice: make a single, generic character sheet. Unless they're AWESOME we don't really one for every class as it just waste space that could be better used...
Random Code
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Postby Random Code » Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:02 am

Plageman wrote:If Mongoose does another book like HoM here's my advice: make a single, generic character sheet. Unless they're AWESOME we don't really one for every class as it just waste space that could be better used...
Yeah, especially the bloomin' combat record page of combat histories, the opponents, and their combat ratios.
Troll66
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Postby Troll66 » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:09 pm

Agree those fuzzy character sheet pages are a disgrace in this day and age - really crap that. Otherwise the book is excellent with many great character types to play.
Zager Krahl
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Postby Zager Krahl » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:44 pm

What character classes all become available, for interest sake? Does it also include art and background fluff on the characters, or example characters to be used as NPC's?
Random Code
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Postby Random Code » Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:46 pm

Zager Krahl wrote:What character classes all become available, for interest sake? Does it also include art and background fluff on the characters, or example characters to be used as NPC's?
Character Classes
Border Ranger of the North
Brother of the Crystal Star
Dwarven Gunner of Bor
Herbwarden of Bautar
Ice Barbarian of Kalte
Kloon Sage of Chaman
Knight of the White Mountain
Magician of Dessi
Buccaneer of Shadaki
Sommlending Knight of the Realm
Telchoi Warrior
Vakeros Warrior-Mage

Art and Background
One picture for each class. I like the artist and his style. There's also a decent amount of fluff for each class.

Example Characters
No.
lightmage81
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Postby lightmage81 » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:56 pm

Nice classes!

Dessie Mage? That's really cool!
T.Y.A.
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Postby T.Y.A. » Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:50 pm

Over all, it's fairly good, but I've got a couple of points to raise. Having now done a thorough read through, I get a feeling that the magic user classes are probably less effective than combat based characters. I think Willpower could quickly get chewed through leaving characters ineffective due to combat skill restrictions inherent to their classes. Also because of their limited combat skill and the way ranged weapons work, it's gonna be hard to make the offensive spells - Lightning Hand, etc really pay dividends without pouring in large amounts of willpower...

For example, Brotherhood of the Crystal Star - Levitation and Magician of Dessi - Enchantment seem particularly harsh in willpower cost vs effect.

I suppose it's hard to say without running something. I'd be interested to know the thoughts of players of the magic user classes as to whether their powers feel over costed compared to the free to use Kai disiplines and combat type abilities of combat based characters.

Also, there's a section which tells us the book will cover "Heroes & Legends" (pg 3-4) "A new sytle of play for powerful characters" which I interpreted as level 10+ character campaigns (the Magnakai Disciplines are the given example). Yet the book contains no such section. Which is somewhat disappointing considering we were instead provided with 24 pages of extremely poor quality, low resolution bitmap graphic character sheets.

Plus points. There is a very useful section at the back giving prices for weapons, armour, goods and services, which will be invaluable to any GM.

Also some very good classes with some pretty nice B&W art illustrations, they will certainly enrich any Lonewolf multiplayer game.

On the whole, well worth a look.

As I say, I'd like to hear how people find playing Willpower based characters. I've an inkling on some tweaks I might make, but as I'm not running anything (nor am likely to anytime soon), I'd like to hear your feedback.
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Nagisawa
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Postby Nagisawa » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:27 am

T.Y.A. wrote:Also, there's a section which tells us the book will cover "Heroes & Legends" (pg 3-4) "A new sytle of play for powerful characters" which I interpreted as level 10+ character campaigns (the Magnakai Disciplines are the given example). Yet the book contains no such section. Which is somewhat disappointing considering we were instead provided with 24 pages of extremely poor quality, low resolution bitmap graphic character sheets.
I get the distinct feeling that this book originally written to include the Magnakai abilities, but was decided that it would be better as an book of alternate classes, and that the next book would deal with 'Advanced' abilities for ALL of the classes. Rather than have the Kai be superior over everyone, and have people complaining that the other classes won't or will get their boost later.

I seem to remember that this book was originally going to be called Heroes and Legends, rather than it's current title.
Xex
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Postby Xex » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:00 am

Its a shame to hear about the character sheets, but hey, at least new ones are available to download now from the Heroes page.

ANyhow, regarding Willpower and mages; basically Mages have theoption of really pumping an attack spell with Willpower. If they do this they can take out any foe even if that foe is of a much greater 'level' than the party. However once their Willpower runs out, mages are left with little else.

As a result, attack spells of wizards are to be used, IMO, as a last resort (or if they know they will be able to recuperate Willpower soon somehow). Until then, they must rely on more mundane means of protection, or use one of their cheaper spells. (for instance, Net is a very useful and cheap spell in the Brother of the Crystal Stars repertoire)
Plageman
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Postby Plageman » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:07 am

I think we really need some way to help spellcasting characters to partially recover WILLPOWER as their fighting ability highly depends on it. Its nice to be able to augment the dmage output but when you're having a low CS it can be quite difficult to hit...
Zager Krahl
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Postby Zager Krahl » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:40 am

Alternatively, change the rules for ranged attacks so that ranged attacks executed with WP - like Lightning Hand - do not require as much WP to make them deal anything more than scratching damage.

E.g. Magic ranged attacks get an automatic CS boost equal to half caster level, rounded down. That way a Brotherhood Magician with max base CS - 14 - and at character level 5 then has a base ranged attack CS of 16, which can then be augmented via WP as required.
Random Code
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Postby Random Code » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:56 am

Zager Krahl wrote:Alternatively, change the rules for ranged attacks so that ranged attacks executed with WP - like Lightning Hand - do not require as much WP to make them deal anything more than scratching damage.

E.g. Magic ranged attacks get an automatic CS boost equal to half caster level, rounded down. That way a Brotherhood Magician with max base CS - 14 - and at character level 5 then has a base ranged attack CS of 16, which can then be augmented via WP as required.
I think that's a good idea. The main rules say add half rank to any related skill check that your discipline covers. Attacks are really just another skill check so I don't see why you couldn't either add the half rank to your roll or direct to CS. I think the latter would give the best and most progressive benefit.
Random Code
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Postby Random Code » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:00 am

Anyone thought that some of the other class disciplines are extraordinarily powerful? I'm thinking the Ranger bow disciplines... Double damage with one of the disciplines and then add your rank to CS with another. Holy flirkin' shnit! :D

People were worried about Kai Lords being too powerful compared to other PCs (I thought they should be) but some of these new disciplines blow the Kai ones away, in my opinion.

We're never happy!

:lol:
Plageman
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Postby Plageman » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:07 am

Yup but some are less useful during adventures like the one who gives a +1 CS for each knight of the same class in the group. If you're the only one you're screwed. And the landed knight Discipline are great to get gold but won't be really helpful while fighting minions of Naar.
Random Code
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Postby Random Code » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:13 am

Yeah, you're right.... Mind you, perhaps the authors think that the Knight character classes will be played as groups of knights? Not sure. Its a significant assumption.

I don't think the applicability vs. power is balanced at all on many of the disciplines. I'd expect that less applicable disciplines get higher bonuses whereas more common usage ones get lower bonuses. This doesn't appear to always be the case.

I like the character classes but I can certainly see me tweaking at least 75% of the disciplines. Easy to do with the simple rules though, which is a good thing.
Zager Krahl
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Postby Zager Krahl » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:17 pm

I'm curious to see how they will handle the Tier II (i.e. Magnakai) level characters, as well as the Tier II requirements for becoming a certain class.

E.g.:
Magnakai Lord, Tier II
- Prerequisite: Kai Lord, level 10 (Tier I)

Kai Grand Master, Tier III
- Prerequisite: Magnakai Lord, level 10 (Tier II)

Brotherhood Magemaster, Tier II
- Prerequisite: Brotherhood Magician, level 10 (Tier I)

Knight Crusader, Tier II
- Prerequisites: any Tier I Knight class, level 10

Court Champion, Tier II
- Prerequisites:
a) any Tier I Knight class, level 10
OR
b) any Tier I class, level 10, with a CS of at least 16 and at least one discipline that involves the use of shields and/or armour

Using this structure, some Tier I classes will be able to 'multi-class' once they reach Tier II, which would remove a lot of the rigidity inherent in the current system (if you start Tier I as a Kai, you KNOW you will end Tier III as a Kai - there is no scope for variation). It can also be used to lump two or more similar Tier I classes together into a single Tier II class, which will then ease advancement to Tier III as well.

Can anyone from Mongoose comment on this?
lightmage81
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Postby lightmage81 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:22 pm

That's a very interesting thought.

I for one am not in favour of dual-classing. But your method of doing it seems pretty interesting indeed.

Anyway, after reading this thread, I can't wait for the PDF to be released on Drive Thru!

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