Strenght rating for Hunting bow and Crossbow

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treeplanter
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Strenght rating for Hunting bow and Crossbow

Postby treeplanter » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:51 pm

I'm thinking about introducing this. Hunting bow is already the worst bow, I don't think it's game breaking, but maybe I would cap it to like +3 or +4.

For crossbow, since it's mechanical, the idea is at it could be constructed with higher tension to be stronger. Advantage is that a low strenght character could fire a Strenght rated crossbow with no penalty, but are not strong enough to reload it (or they must succed a strenght check).

What you guy think?
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Der Rote Baron
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Postby Der Rote Baron » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:05 pm

I wouldn't do it. The Hunting Bow is a Simple Weapon and made for ... well ... hunting. It costs just 3 sp and is a very standrd, non-fancy weapon to make, not like the specialized bows that can also used for hunting animals but are more often used to hunt the "most dangerous game" - man. The Hyrkanian Bow, the Bossonian Longbow, the Shemite Bow and the Stygian Bow cost - even in it basic form - between 20 and 30 sp and are thus made with material that can provide (with some extra work) the extra damage-bonus.
The Crossbow is a weapon of war, but if you are worried about the Hyborian Knight in Full Plate charging you, well, run or get yourself an Arbalest!

For fast reloading of a Crossbow or an Arbalest you could rule that a character with Quick Draw can reload a Crossbow as a Move Action (he is nimble enough to get the bolt right into place, but can't move).
For the Arbalest that would mean that he only needs two full-round-action instead of three.
You could also rule that a STR-Roll vs. DC 20 (more than you need to break down a good door) can cut that down to one full round, but if the character can't make it he looses a whole round and can't try again.
That way you save these super-quick reloads for dramatic moments and save the extra dice-rolling.

Please note that not giving Hunting Bow the option of having a STR-Bonus has nothing to do with game balance per se - a "pimped" Hunting Bow is not scaring the socks of anyone. But it keeps the special bows ... well ... special.

A Bossian Longbow IS special! You need a Feta to use it properly. It's the Hyborian Steyr AUG. The Shemite Bow is an AK 47, the Stygian Bow is an M16 and the Hyrkanian Bow as nice H&K. All are for war. All can be equipted with low-light-sights, silencers and given special features to make them more effective.
A Hunting Bow is for hunting deer. Your average hunting rifle usually doesn't come with low-lightsights.
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Postby Jacek » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:32 pm

Are you suggesting that the strenght rating for a hunting bow should be raised from its default value of 0? What for? This would greatly reduce the number of people able to use it effectively, which is not what I'd expect from the most widely-used type of a bow. Besides I don't see the point in applying a streght bonus for such bows. It's just the most ordinary bow made, not a reflexive bow or a long one for that matter, which do increase shooting efficiency.

Comming to a cossbow now, what is it that you propose? They don't have any strenght rating in the game, do they? The only reasonable use I can see of this parameter is a high rating but applied only to loading the weapon (succeeding the Str check as you mentioned or using a windlass and pulley) with no impact on accuracy.

Just as clarification, I was thinking 'bout increasing DC 10 by a strenght rating.
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Postby Spectator » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:18 pm

Call me dumb (well, actually please don't).
But how can a hunting bow ever kill a dear with one hit?
I really hate this game dynamic.
Do we lower the HP for dear to the single digits? Take off all DR from the hide?

PS I'm a hunter in the real world and if you don't kill a dear immediately that sucker will run forever and maybe 3 days later die of infection if you are very lucky.
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Postby Clovenhoof » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:37 am

We had a discussion about the nature of hunting bows yonks ago, and the most convincing argument I read was that this bow is supposed to resemble the type used by ab original peoples, such as rainforest indios.

Image

These have a much shorter draw, and thus are also easier to aim, compared to a european longbow that's drawn out 28" or more. -> Simple Weapon.
And, for the same reason, no Str modifier!
Spectator wrote:But how can a hunting bow ever kill a dear with one hit?
I really hate this game dynamic.
A typical problem with the D20 damage codes as such. If you accept the "indio bow" interpretation, these hunters tend to use poisoned arrows for a reason. The arrow may only cause a scratch, but then the poison does the rest.
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Postby Majestic7 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:21 am

In my game, crossbow and arbalest are simple weapons. Their AP and damage are 6 / 2d8 and 10 / 2d10. This makes them somewhat more dangerous and the weapon of choice for an untrained peasant. I wouldn't allow strength rating for crossbows, it doesn't make much sense.

However, there is a feat in D&D, Crossbow Sniper. It adds Dexterity modifier to ranged damage with crossbows and crossbows only. It as well increases point blank range (for Point Blank Shot and sneak attack etc) to 60 feet when using a crossbow. I don't remember the requirements, but I think it would work fine in Conan.

Regarding hunting bows, I agree with Clovenhoof.
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treeplanter
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Postby treeplanter » Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:48 pm

Majestic7 wrote:In my game, crossbow and arbalest are simple weapons. Their AP and damage are 6 / 2d8 and 10 / 2d10. This makes them somewhat more dangerous and the weapon of choice for an untrained peasant. I wouldn't allow strength rating for crossbows, it doesn't make much sense.

However, there is a feat in D&D, Crossbow Sniper. It adds Dexterity modifier to ranged damage with crossbows and crossbows only. It as well increases point blank range (for Point Blank Shot and sneak attack etc) to 60 feet when using a crossbow. I don't remember the requirements, but I think it would work fine in Conan.

Regarding hunting bows, I agree with Clovenhoof.
Yeah i wanted to boast damage/AP of crossbow too. the Crossbow feat look an interesting one, but i would not increase PB range (there's already eagle eye for that).

Anyway, about hunting bow, yes it simple weapon, but in it's actual form it's worthless. You can't really kill anything. 1d8 dmg and no bonus for strenght and 1 ap. Even with strenght rating, regional bow would still remain LOT better (higher damage, higher AP, better critical, and better range) so not sure there would be a real issue here.
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Postby DooMJake » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:20 pm

Pardon me if I might be wrong but I cant find any rule that prevents the huntingbow from having a strength rating. (for +100 sp for each +1)
treeplanter
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Postby treeplanter » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:05 pm

2nd edition p. 146, under hunting bow, last sentence. "Hunting bow always have an effective strenght rating of +0".
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Postby DooMJake » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:06 pm

As does every other bow. You have to buy the str rating extra. (At 100 sp/+1)
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Clovenhoof
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Postby Clovenhoof » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:42 pm

I don't have my book on hand right now, but in AE it does say something like "...hunting bows never have strength ratings".
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wwebb
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Postby wwebb » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:56 am

Clovenhoof wrote:We had a discussion about the nature of hunting bows yonks ago, and the most convincing argument I read was that this bow is supposed to resemble the type used by ab original peoples, such as rainforest indios.

Image

These have a much shorter draw, and thus are also easier to aim, compared to a european longbow that's drawn out 28" or more. -> Simple Weapon.
And, for the same reason, no Str modifier!
Spectator wrote:But how can a hunting bow ever kill a dear with one hit?
I really hate this game dynamic.
A typical problem with the D20 damage codes as such. If you accept the "indio bow" interpretation, these hunters tend to use poisoned arrows for a reason. The arrow may only cause a scratch, but then the poison does the rest.
That's a handful of ideas you got there. And I agree with the poison thing, it is really true that most indios used poisoned weapons on hunting down animals and enemies.

But regarding to the game, I have no comment or whatsoever. Thanks.



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