Conan Plans Unveiled - Deepest Apologies

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Loz
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Postby Loz » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:45 pm

And yes, Lawrence is still very much with us and currently working on awesomeness.
[Looks up from current Awesomeness Project]

Yep, still here.

[/Gets back to current Awesomeness Project]
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Postby Mongoose_Will » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:57 pm

Demetrio wrote:I'd add that I'm not certain the license holders are exactly playing underhanded games. They might be wrong, but their aim will be to maximise the money they can make from granting the license.
I think this is where the reason lies, although who knows if they are making the right moves....
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Postby Strom » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:59 pm

I never saw this coming - the Long Cold Wait just got a lot colder and longer. :shock:

I see the movie influence all over this decision. Marketing often is all in the timing and RQ Conan vs. RQ Conan released with a movie tie-in is much stronger.

Personally, I think if Mongoose keeps the license the future of Conan is RQ. The writing is on the wall and RQ Conan isn't just an idea anymore.

Conan fandom took a blow today with news of the atlas delay. I hope that is all it is - a delay. Cheers Vincent - we are damn lucky to have you champion the Hyborian Age.
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flatscan
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Postby flatscan » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:03 pm

Strom wrote:Personally, I think if Mongoose keeps the license the future of Conan is RQ. The writing is on the wall and RQ Conan isn't just an idea anymore.
Yeah, that's something that bugs me about this as well. In past threads Matt was asked point blank if the wait was due to a system change and he said no. But obviously a system change was being worked on. So would there had still been d20 releases or would it have been MRQ and SW supported by some system-less stuff? I still think it sucks that Mongoose was dealt a hand like this from the license holder, but at the same time, I kinda feel like I was lied to months ago.
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Postby LucaCherstich » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:04 pm

As I have always said, I was definitively not interested in Conan Runequest or Conan Savage Worlds.
If the reason behind the license holders ' decision is to "keep just one system" I understand them.
HOWEVER, AN ATLAS OF 13 SYSTEMLESS BOOKS BY V.DARLAGE WAS AN IMPRESSIVE AND WONDERFUL PROJECT!!
What the hell!
No Conan atlas book or publication (rpg or not rpg related) EVER published by any publisher NEVER reached the quality of V.Darlage Conan d20 sourcebooks!
I'm so sad they really stopped this project.
I hope they stopped the whole thing only because of the multi-system situation and they will allow the atlas to be published ...
I do not understand whether they stopped the whole Conan d20 line or not.
And I'm really eager to know what happened to Conan d20 books which (if I well understood) are ready (Empires and Thief's Companion).
The license holders should check how many d20 lines by other publishers failed around while Conan is still selling ...
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Postby The King » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:33 pm

To keep the next projects for Conan open, I suggest following the regional sourcebooks development with scenarios and campaign (I am sure the campaign Gareth prepared for the aborted project could easily be adapted to the ancient rules).
Thus nothing extraordinary but a better and further development of the Hyborian Age.
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Postby PrinceYyrkoon » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:34 pm

flatscan wrote:
PrinceYyrkoon wrote:And I dont understand people who play the D20 version saying they wouldnt touch a RQ version of Conan. Seems ridiculous to me.
???

It seems ridiculous to you that some of us thoroughly enjoy the d20 Conan game we have with the 40+ books released for the line (1e, Atlantean, 2e) and hundreds of hours invested in playing with a steady set of characters and would not be willing to chuck all that out the window in order to play in the same world with a vastly different system? I know you love RQ, but c'mon man.
Hello flatscan. I said to see if you would respond! :lol:

I understand the point of view, investment, etc., but Im not naturally thrilled by D20 but Ive learned to live with it, partly because of the great job thats been done on it as an engine for Conan. To say, flatly, that you would have no interest at all in Mongoose Conan anymore, merely because of the different engine, (regardless of the quality of of the product), seems a bit radical.

Its a moot point now anyway. I fear the worst, and the worst is Mongoose losing the licence and were left with a horrible movie tie-in, with a simplistic game book that has lots of pretty movie stills in it done by a company noone has heard of.
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Postby Jeffreywns » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:35 pm

Wow, what a drag. Please file this under a customer who bought the 1st edition, collected all the S&P printed back issues with Conan articles, and has purchased all the Conan products with the exception of the adventure books beyond Tales of the Black Kingdoms & Reavers of the Vilayet and wasn't buying the fighter/thief handbooks.
I was currently running a GURPs Conan campaign with a dog eared OOP Conan source book and an even older Hyborian Wars map when I bought the Conan RPG 1st edition. It alone brought me back to D20.
I cant join any side in the RQ/SW debate as I've never played them so I can only express my pleasure at having a dedicated game system (this isn't a D&D D20 game) as opposed to a world book (like gurps and AD&D did).
My group has enjoyed their characters exploits for around 6 years and even if this line fades I will be running it as Conan D20 for the rest of my life- hell I waited almost 30 years for a company to take Conan seriously.
I'm very thankful to all the people who have given me the Conan products now available and will start buying extras for the coming years.
And this comes from a guy who didn't hoard during the Y2K scare.
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Postby quigs » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:50 pm

This news saddens me as well. I LOVE savage worlds and LOVE Conan, I would have purchased the atlas and the SW rulebook, pre-order them even.

Never played Runequest and never will......but dammit.....that news really blows.
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Postby Scorpion13 » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:03 pm

PrinceYyrkoon wrote:
flatscan wrote:
PrinceYyrkoon wrote:And I dont understand people who play the D20 version saying they wouldnt touch a RQ version of Conan. Seems ridiculous to me.
???

It seems ridiculous to you that some of us thoroughly enjoy the d20 Conan game we have with the 40+ books released for the line (1e, Atlantean, 2e) and hundreds of hours invested in playing with a steady set of characters and would not be willing to chuck all that out the window in order to play in the same world with a vastly different system? I know you love RQ, but c'mon man.
Hello flatscan. I said to see if you would respond! :lol:

I understand the point of view, investment, etc., but Im not naturally thrilled by D20 but Ive learned to live with it, partly because of the great job thats been done on it as an engine for Conan. To say, flatly, that you would have no interest at all in Mongoose Conan anymore, merely because of the different engine, (regardless of the quality of of the product), seems a bit radical.

Its a moot point now anyway. I fear the worst, and the worst is Mongoose losing the licence and were left with a horrible movie tie-in, with a simplistic game book that has lots of pretty movie stills in it done by a company noone has heard of.
How does switching to a whole other system turning people off seem radical to you? Why is it so bizarre to you that people enjoy playing with the d20 system? Are we bad people for doing it?

And I have to say Im getting a little annoyed at this attitude of yours that d20 fans have to grow up and move on to "better" RPG systems like Runequest. I havent seen anybody wish death on a RQ Conan. All Ive heard them say is that they wouldnt be interested in playing it. You constantly are saying its time for everyone to "grow up" and play RQ because its the "future".
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Postby PrinceYyrkoon » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:10 pm

Scorpion13 wrote:And I have to say Im getting a little annoyed at this attitude of yours that d20 fans have to grow up and move on to "better" RPG systems like Runequest. I havent seen anybody wish death on a RQ Conan. All Ive heard them say is that they wouldnt be interested in playing it. You constantly are saying its time for everyone to "grow up" and play RQ because its the "future".
Huh?

Ive never said anything like this, at least not in any serious way. Youre putting words in my mouth here. I play, and have played, versions of 'D20' since the 1970s I dont know why you take this attitude.
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Postby PrinceYyrkoon » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:14 pm

flatscan wrote:Yeah, that's something that bugs me about this as well. In past threads Matt was asked point blank if the wait was due to a system change and he said no. But obviously a system change was being worked on. So would there had still been d20 releases or would it have been MRQ and SW supported by some system-less stuff? I still think it sucks that Mongoose was dealt a hand like this from the license holder, but at the same time, I kinda feel like I was lied to months ago.
I remember him saying something like this as well. It seems strange that he did, considering what we know now.
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Postby Guimly » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:21 pm

Well, it's very sad news. I'm not a D20 fan, but it's just my personal taste (and yes I know the sytem, having played nearly all it's version from D&D red box to D20 3.5 and Conan). I would have bought the MQR AND SW version without hesitation (I'm a big fan of the two systems). So I'm quite disapointed with this turn of event.

However, I would gladly buy some systemless atlases like Green Ronin has done with their freeport serie.
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Re: Conan Plans Unveiled - Deepest Apologies

Postby Kev » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:22 pm

msprange wrote:After agreeing our new plans for Conan a few months ago, the licence holders contacted us seven days before the core development was due to start to tell us that they had decided we should not proceed.
I can believe this, especially in light of the upcoming Conan movie. Though why they should drop the hammer when you guys were so close to really gettin' the ball rolling is harder to fathom. :roll:
Conan would have been released as a setting for RuneQuest
bound in real leather with a reptilian finish - not as a limited edition, but as standard across the entire Conan range. The interior would have been in full colour.
with Gareth Hanrahan to be unleashed on the Slaves of Turan, a new epic.
we had commissioned Vincent Darlage to write a 13 volume atlas to Conan's world - systemless or near systemless, so _all_ Conan players could use them. At around 200 pages each, the detail Vincent was going into was just incredible
working alongside Pinnacle and one of our Flaming Cobra studios to produce a full colour Savage Worlds Conan book, giving you three different choices on how you want to play Conan.
Wow, I had to check my calendar to make sure it wasn't April Fool's Day! :wink: If you guys really were planning all this, I salute you whole heartedly. But it all seems a bit too good to be true, doesn't it? I mean, here you're telling all those folks who've been pining for RQ Conan that they were gonna get it (and all bound in real leather, to boot); who've been extolling the would-be virtues of Savage Worlds Conan that it was coming; who've bemoaned the dearth of (accurate) maps over the years that Vincent was producing over 2000 pages of highly detailed work such as has never before been seen in the annals of Conan fandom. Plus that everything was gonna be produced in full-color and (I assume) profusely illustrated.

I just find it all a bit too much to credit. Again, if this is what y'all had planned and were, in fact, working on...holy crap, it woulda been awesome by every definition of that word! :shock: Maybe I'm just in shock and denial. And maybe this is just the eternal pessimist in me but I can't help but feel that you're just pulling our collective leg. Yeah, so there's licensing issues resulting in a change/halt in momentum with the line. That I can understand but as for the rest...really?
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Postby zozotroll » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:25 pm

I can understand not wanting to play a game in certain systems, after all I wouuld not play Conan in 4E. And I wont play GURPS either. I have many of the books, and figured out it is just not for me.

So why should I not allow others the same sort of choice?
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Postby Padre » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:39 pm

I'm crushed. It sounds like a perfect solution and I would get back to buying Conan Rpg books in a heartbeat. This is insane.
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Postby warzen » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:51 pm

I don't think the system change is a reason for this cancelled project. Most probably the license holders don't care at all. They're talking $ and expected sales, not about the cons and pros of a feat driven rpg system...

W.
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Postby Demetrio » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:52 pm

Well the license holders may well want a game with an explicit film tie in.

Remember they are unlikely to be interested in a (relatively speaking) handful of geeks playing a (relatively speaking) low sales volume rpg - or even rpgs. They will, however be intereted in large amounts of money.

I can see they could get Mongoose to go with one system and to tie artwork etc to the new film.

Or they could get another company to do that.

Actually, if I didn't know much about rpgs, I'd be tempted to go with the newest version of the market leader's established rpg, if I could get a deal with them (which means 4th ed D&D Conan...) or I'd want to go with a purpose built film tie-in game.

Or they might not do either and just let the game 'rot'.

It all depends how much money they make and think they might make. The latter option is always a possibility if (relatively speaking) the rpg franchise brings them in peanuts. Please note, I'm sure it's not peanuts to you or I or Mongoose. But it might be to them.
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Re: Conan Plans Unveiled - Deepest Apologies

Postby Mongoose_Will » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:59 pm

Kev wrote: I just find it all a bit too much to credit. Again, if this is what y'all had planned and were, in fact, working on...holy crap, it woulda been awesome by every definition of that word! :shock: Maybe I'm just in shock and denial. And maybe this is just the eternal pessimist in me but I can't help but feel that you're just pulling our collective leg. Yeah, so there's licensing issues resulting in a change/halt in momentum with the line. That I can understand but as for the rest...really?
I for one have worked my design socks off on both the Atlas and RQ book...

the image in signs and portents was the commisioned cover for the first Atlas along with the cover design which was done weeks ago, maybe at some point i can show you all what i had for the interiors of at least the RQ book aswell...

they looked great and i for one was extremely excited as i was able to commision the interiors myself this time, i had a list of artists waiting in the pipeline, all of excellent quality.

We even have samples coming from the printers for the leather bound covers, we were experimenting with a few different blends of materials too get the best quality finish...

this one was not decided at the beginning of development... it was mid flow...

read Vincents comment also, 3 volumes into the Atlas...

Its not a fun day for some of us at Mongoose, trust me.
Last edited by Mongoose_Will on Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby PrinceYyrkoon » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:00 pm

zozotroll wrote:I can understand not wanting to play a game in certain systems, after all I wouuld not play Conan in 4E. And I wont play GURPS either. I have many of the books, and figured out it is just not for me.

So why should I not allow others the same sort of choice?
Having recently been reacquainted with GURPS, I get the same feeling, its just not my kind of thing, though I can see why people like it. 4E, regardless of any design kudos it has, just is no good to recreate anything other than D&D worlds. Its not a good fit for anything else. So I can see why certain people just wont have anything to do with systems they dont like. Thing is, if GURPS Conan was rereleased, Id buy it. If there was a Savage Worlds version, Id buy it. D20 version, Id buy it. I RQ version, ditto. Im not saying Id get around to playing everything though.

But is it imposible for D20 guys to find ANYTHING to like about a RQ version? It seems needlessly partizan.

Anyway, its not going to happen. So its pointless arguing about it anyway.

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