Ship Questions

Discuss Mongoose RPGs here, such as the OGL rulebooks, Jeremiah, Armageddon 2089 and Macho Women with Guns
User avatar
spezbaby
Shrew
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 2:43 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Ship Questions

Postby spezbaby » Sat Oct 11, 2003 2:48 pm

I posted this to the YahooGroup, but I think no saw it. :cry:

Anyway could someone answer a few questions on ships: :?:

After reading B5 and CoS, I have a couple of questions about ships:

Shuttles: The T'Loth lists 12 shuttles. Are these EA or Centauri or EA Light Shuttles? Are stats for a Narn shuttle due in the Narn book? The same applies to the Drazi Sunhawk and Vree Xorr War Saucer.

Pods: B5 lists Cargo Pods; CoS lists Vehicle Pods. Is there a difference? If so what are the stats for Vehicle Pods?

Cortez Explorer Survey Ship: Carries 24 Starfuries, 6 shuttles, but only 8 pilots. Is this intentional? (ie extra ships for redundancy due to long
ranged voyages) or an oversight? Should it be 30 pilots or less vehicles?

Valkyrie Assualt Shuttle: Should this have Atmospheric Capability?

Condor: How much cargo capacity can it hold if it does not carry passengers? Should the troops be listed under crew like the T'Loth?

Maybe I have missed some info, but can anyone help?

Thanks
Spezbaby
El Cid
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 2:27 pm
Location: Pensacola, FL

Re: Ship Questions

Postby El Cid » Sun Oct 12, 2003 2:32 pm

spezbaby wrote:I posted this to the YahooGroup, but I think no saw it. :cry:

Anyway could someone answer a few questions on ships: :?:

After reading B5 and CoS, I have a couple of questions about ships:



Pods: B5 lists Cargo Pods; CoS lists Vehicle Pods. Is there a difference? If so what are the stats for Vehicle Pods?

Cortez Explorer Survey Ship: Carries 24 Starfuries, 6 shuttles, but only 8 pilots. Is this intentional? (ie extra ships for redundancy due to long
ranged voyages) or an oversight? Should it be 30 pilots or less vehicles?

Valkyrie Assualt Shuttle: Should this have Atmospheric Capability?

Condor: How much cargo capacity can it hold if it does not carry passengers? Should the troops be listed under crew like the T'Loth?

Maybe I have missed some info, but can anyone help?

Thanks
Spezbaby
Here are my guesses.

Shuttles: The T'Loth lists 12 shuttles. Are these EA or Centauri or EA Light Shuttles? Are stats for a Narn shuttle due in the Narn book? The same applies to the Drazi Sunhawk and Vree Xorr War Saucer.

The shuttles in these ships sre most likely of the same race. I'd use the stats of either EA or Centauri as you think best for now.

Cortez Explorer Survey Ship: Carries 24 Starfuries, 6 shuttles, but only 8 pilots. Is this intentional? (ie extra ships for redundancy due to long
ranged voyages) or an oversight? Should it be 30 pilots or less vehicles?

This is either an error as you noted or the eight pilots are only for the main ship.

Valkyrie Assualt Shuttle: Should this have Atmospheric Capability?

I'd agree that it should have Atmospheric Capability.

Condor: How much cargo capacity can it hold if it does not carry passengers? Should the troops be listed under crew like the T'Loth?

I'd use a trade out based on other ships which I don't have in front of me. Looks like they missed the troops.

Sidney
User avatar
frobisher
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2046
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:41 pm
Location: Glenfarg, SCOTLAND

Re: Ship Questions

Postby frobisher » Sun Oct 12, 2003 5:50 pm

El Cid wrote:Valkyrie Assualt Shuttle: Should this have Atmospheric Capability?

I'd agree that it should have Atmospheric Capability.
Actually, it shouldn't be listed as a shuttle, or have troop carrying capability, and is atmospheric only. This will almost certainly be corrected in the EA Factbook I'd say...
Paddy Sinclair

Us Yellowbeards are never more dangerous than when we're dead...
User avatar
ShadowScout
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:48 am
Location: Matzen, AUSTRIA

Postby ShadowScout » Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:46 pm

frobisher wrote:Actually, it shouldn't be listed as a shuttle, or have troop carrying capability, and is atmospheric only. This will almost certainly be corrected in the EA Factbook I'd say...
Or not. The info is conflicting... and just because some CGI-guy was lazy!

AoG had the Valkyrie as atmospheric-only gunship, the EA-tech equivalent to the US Apache helis, based on the scenes from "GROPOS".

However, if one looks closely, one can spot the very same CGI model flying through space with Clarke's force on their way to assault B5 a season later.

Now, we all know it makes little sense to have it there... but some CGI guy thought "oh, what a nice mesh, I'll use it to spice up that scene...", and so we're stuck with that shot.

Soo, it depends on Mongoose... I hope that on second thought they will turn a blind eye to the S-3 scene and keep the Val as a-only gunship (which makes a Lot more sense, since the model IS structured for atmospheric vectored thrust, and has no "patented EA 3d thruster system" like a starfury...). But you never know... If they officially aknowledge the Valkyrie's presence in "Severed Dreams", it'd make sense to make it an "assault shuttle" type of vehicle.

As for the other questions...

T'Loth
No, of course the narn have their own shuttles. As do the Drazi and Vree. Mongoose just didn't publish those stats yet. Expect something very much like the EA shuttles though - the differences are rather minor. Until Mongoose gets around to the narn, drazi & vree shuttles, just use the EA stats...
One thing though - the T'Loth doesn't always carry normal shuttles, when it's on a combat mission you can expect T'Khar assault shuttles, those are more heavily armored as standard shuttles, and armed besides.

Pods
Very different. A Vehicle pod is basically a transport covering for vehicles. No stats on it's own, it just means the ship that has "Vehicle pods" carries that many tanks, jeeps or gunships in it's belly. The cargo pod on the other hand is a much bigger, hollow container filled with, well, cargo. (theoretically one could fill a cargo pod with one or maybe two vehicle pods... but they'd be hell to unload, unlike on ships designed to carry them. However, in certain situations it can be neccessary to have an innocent-looking freighter carrying tanks... or sometimes there just is no other choice.)

Cortez Explorer Survey Ship
It is a ship more then 3 klicks long - certainly they found enough room for pilots. I'd say those 8 are pilots for the main ship only (check the SHarlin for example - if it had onlöy 28 pilots, it could operate it's small carft, OR the big ship, but not both at the same time. And for a warship I'd expect a second shift of pilots, to fly the fighters while the first shift rests... and maybe even a thrid shift... dunno, any real military guys here can tell us how's the pilot-to-plane ration of modern aircraft carriers?), and thus you can easily add another 30 or so for their small craft.

Condor
Actually I don't think the troops shouldbe listed under crew in any case, as they're not always on board. A troop transport may fly empty, on it's way to pick up troops for example, and then the crew notations make little sense (they could write it as optional crew... but since the troops are actually not doing anything in the ship except sitting there and waiting 'till they get where they Can do something -well, except in marine boarding actions of course- I'd not count them as crew; but would write them into the "cargo capacity" of the ship).
As for the Condor & cargo - no idea... a lot though if it were converted to cargo carrier, at least 250,000 lbs I'd say. Hey, 250 soldiers AND 6 vehicles? That's a lot of boxes if you fill the space with cargo instead...

As a side note, I'd have liked more flexible cargo descriptions. As in: "250,000 lbs, optional troops (250 lbs per trooper) or light vehicles (30,000 lbs per light vehicle pod), or heavy vehicles (80,000 lbs per HVP)...", for every ship (those without troop capacity just have the cargo space, those which can carry troops but no vehicles have only the trooper option, etc.). Well, maybe in an later ship review...
ShadowScout
Roman A. Perner

"True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between light and dark..." - inscription on Z'ha'dum
jadrax
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:49 pm
Location: Middlesbrough
Contact:

Postby jadrax » Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:35 pm

ShadowScout wrote:Soo, it depends on Mongoose... I hope that on second thought they will turn a blind eye to the S-3 scene and keep the Val as a-only gunship (which makes a Lot more sense, since the model IS structured for atmospheric vectored thrust, and has no "patented EA 3d thruster system" like a starfury...). But you never know... If they officially aknowledge the Valkyrie's presence in "Severed Dreams", it'd make sense to make it an "assault shuttle" type of vehicle.
I actually like the idea of it being a Dropship type.

Then you have it making short space hops to its target, landing and dropping off troops, then acting as Ariel support for thouse troops.
User avatar
ShadowScout
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:48 am
Location: Matzen, AUSTRIA

Postby ShadowScout » Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:08 pm

jadrax wrote:I actually like the idea of it being a Dropship type.
I'd like that idea for the Condor... however, doing it for the Valkyrie just puts too much into too small a hull (dunno if you know the AoG mini - but judging from thi size of it's cockpits it's not much larger then an russian Hind-class heli - and that's just to small IMO to pack in gunship, troop transport AND aero/space engines plus the fuel and life-support all those troopers would need for any meaningful voyage including atmospheric re-entry and lift-off - hey, if they go down, they need to be able to go up on their own too, in case things don't work out like the generals planned).
Besides, it's apperance suggests a vector-thrust hover vehicle, with an thruster arrangement that works really well on a planet, but rather badly in open space...
ShadowScout
Roman A. Perner

"True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between light and dark..." - inscription on Z'ha'dum
Triumviron

Ships question

Postby Triumviron » Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:34 am

Am I the only one who noticed some discrepancies between the EA Fact Book and the Coming of the Shadows Sourcebook?

Examples:

Explorer Survey Ship HP:
Coming of the Shadows: 1650
EAFB: 1500

Omega HP:
CotS: 875
EAFB: 750

In these cases, which takes precidence?
User avatar
LoneStranger
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1141
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 4:08 am
Location: Arizona
Contact:

Postby LoneStranger » Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:28 am

I'd say flip a coin or just pick which one you want to use
A fan of the Earth Alliance fleet, a.k.a. the Flying Brick Brigade
rbowman
Cub
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:43 pm

Postby rbowman » Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:59 pm

ShadowScout wrote:Cortez Explorer Survey Ship
It is a ship more then 3 klicks long - certainly they found enough room for pilots. I'd say those 8 are pilots for the main ship only (check the SHarlin for example - if it had onlöy 28 pilots, it could operate it's small carft, OR the big ship, but not both at the same time. And for a warship I'd expect a second shift of pilots, to fly the fighters while the first shift rests... and maybe even a thrid shift... dunno, any real military guys here can tell us how's the pilot-to-plane ration of modern aircraft carriers?), and thus you can easily add another 30 or so for their small craft.
Pilots on a carrier are on a one-for-one ratio with the planes. Each one, in fact, has the pilots' name painted on it. Now, that doesn't mean that he is the only one to fly it.

Also, modern carriers never launch all fighters on board, they are launched in waves, each one called an "event." Therefore, most fighter or fighter/attack squadrons, which normally have a complement of about 13 planes, will only have 2-7 in the air at one time, with 1 or 2 in an alert status while in combat zones.

Of course, these don't mirror well with the B5 universe, where each ship launches every fighter on board, so take the above figures with a grain of salt when comparing to B5.
Enlightened Bystander
Stoat
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:05 am
Location: Liverpool, UK

Postby Enlightened Bystander » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:00 pm

Don't forget that we normally see fighters launching for pitched battles. In the unlikely circumstance of two modern CVBGs coming together to do battle, you'd probably see most if not all of the fighters from both carriers launching
User avatar
August
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 548
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:46 pm

Postby August » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:26 pm

Just to chime in here with something official:

Whenever a vessel with carrier capacity is given a writeup, the Pilots listed in its Crew are for the main ship only.

-August
"This is a blanket apology to every god I can think of and all the ones I don't know. I have no idea what I did or in which life I did it, but I am really sorry. Ummm, my bad."
User avatar
Greg Smith
Warlord Mongoose
Posts: 8849
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:58 am
Location: Kettering UK
Contact:

Postby Greg Smith » Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:31 am

Does anyone know where I can find a decent pictures of the Condor and Valkyrie?

The scren grabs that are in the books aren't very detailed. The best picture I can find of the Valkyrie is AoG's unpainted miniature. There seem to be pictures of pretty much every other ship out there on the web, but not these two.
"Bringer of Warmth, Carrier of Carrion, Prophet of Dilgarness, Speaker of all thing Llort!"

Part-time Narn.

ACTA playtester
Victorious Grand Admiral
User avatar
qstor
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:54 pm
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Postby qstor » Fri Jan 30, 2004 4:21 am

[Bumping way up]

A little different question on this topic. What class is the Icarus? It doesn't look like a Cortez class explorer?


Thanks

Mike
"Hate is baggage. Life's too short to go around pissed off all the time" Edward Furlong - American History X
Enlightened Bystander
Stoat
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:05 am
Location: Liverpool, UK

Postby Enlightened Bystander » Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:24 am

The Icarus is definetly not the same class as the Cortez. The Icarus is a small, private reaserach ship about the size of a Commercial freighter (I think it's stats are in tCoS), whilst the Cortez is one of the biggest vessels in known space, at about three miles long.[/i]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests