[DW] Growth of characters

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rabindranath72
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[DW] Growth of characters

Postby rabindranath72 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:15 pm

Despite its age, DW exhibits many of the traits which are usually ascribed to modern RPGs, namely, the sense of character growth inherent in acquiring new abilities and improving the ones already possessed.
Despite this, I still feel that the Knights and Barbarians are left somewhat behind, what with Barbarians only getting a new special ability at 8th level, and Knights getting more abilities starting from level 8.
Has anyone thought about adding more skills to the Barbarian, and doing a different distribution of skills for the Knight? For example, starting from level 4 and every other level they could acquire the usual abilities they gain from level 8. Track would be delayed to 2nd level.
For the Barbarian, they could acquire abilities from other classes (e.g. Assassins and Knights), due to the fact that, as written in the book, Barbarians are well-traveled, so they develop a quite wide set of abilities (I am thinking Conan right now). Suitable abilities for a Barbarian would be Main Gauche, Quick Draw, Climbing, Unarmed combat.

Any other ideas?

Cheers,
Antonio
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Troll66
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Postby Troll66 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:35 pm

I thibk when you look at all the gooodies characteres get in D&D (3rd ed onwards) all DW characters leef a bit short changed upon rank gain and there are fewre ranks to aim for compared to D&D.

I have thougt about kicking in special abilitie sat an earlier rank too...
jason.richardson
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Postby jason.richardson » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:24 pm

As far as I'm concerned, no, I haven't thought about adding new abilities to any of the professions. I (and my players) like the way the game plays as written.
Sir Brad
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Postby Sir Brad » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:15 pm

DW is Good, it Works, it Could use a few Tweaks, but these are only for personal taste and not really needed. Sure the PTB's may add a few things later to enrich the game, but not till they've had a chance to work out the kinks.

If it Ain't Broke Don't Fix it, But bit of a Tune to make it work better for you is OK.
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Postby Snowedunder » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:55 pm

Perhaps they may be plans for rules for developing high rank characters beyond those given in the core book in later publications.

I certainly hope so.....
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Postby Sir Brad » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:06 am

What's every ones thoughts on what makes a "High Level Character", from reading the Classic books Ranks 8-12 seem to be the starting point and around 15 seams to be for practical purposes when a character has topped out, at least that's the jist from how we reed it as written.

But we treated around 12-15th to be the start of High level, but we treated 1-3 as Rookies, 3-8 as low level, 8-15 as Mid level an 15-20 as High, Rank 20 just seamed to be the top out mark where a character moved from PC to Legendry status and got retired.
rabindranath72
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Postby rabindranath72 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:57 pm

Ok, so this is what I have concocted until now, and I am planning to introduce these rules in my next game.
Essentially, I want a bit more flexibility in the kind of Knight and Barbarian characters which can be created, but I do not want to stray too far from how the game works. So, I added some skills to Barbarians which I thought might fit the archetype well, and moved the Weaponskill skill of Knights to a lower level (it does not seem too overpowering, since it essentially works as the armour piercing Assassin skill which is acquired at first level).
I admit I wanted to create a more flexible mechanism to better reproduce the feel of Conan and similar, e.g. Conan is quite adept at climbing (like all Cimmerians), he is quite good at unarmed combat and he has a sixth sense when coming to traps and ambushes.

Constructive criticism is welcome!

Cheers,
Antonio


New skills for Barbarians and Knights

Barbarians

This is a revised skill list for Barbarians; in parenthesis the minimum rank to acquire the skill is shown.
Track (1), Ride warhorse (1), Unarmed combat (1), Climb (1), Weaponskill (1), Inner sense (4), Master bowman (8), Quick draw (8), Bloodrage (8).

At 1st rank Barbarians have the Berserk skill, plus they can choose two suitable skills from the list above.
At 4th rank Barbarians acquire a new skill, which they can choose from the list above.
At 8th rank they gain another skill, which they can choose from the list above.
From 8th rank onward they acquire a new skill per 4 ranks (so, another at 12th, another at 16th etc.)


Knights

Knights add the Unarmed combat skill to their list.

At 1st rank Knights have the Expert armour skill, plus they can choose two skills among: Track, Ride warhorse, Weaponskill, Unarmed combat.
At 4th rank Knights acquire a new skill, which they can choose from the list above.
From 8th rank onward acquisition of skills follows the standard rules.
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sbarrie
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Postby sbarrie » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:21 am

I came up with something similar, especially for Knights who aren't part of the Gentry or Nobility.

Skills of the Mediocre

Track
Ride Warhorse
Occupation? (See page 54 - mind you, if you can hold down a regular job, why are you an adventurer?)
Mariner (trained as a naval officer, but also an able-bodied seaman, which may be more relevant in an adventure)
Entertain (pick a form, like storytelling or singing)
Light Sleeper? (Would all players try to pick this?)
Catechism (unusually knowledgeable about the Church)
Merchant (by taking a bit more time, can make a second roll to determine if a given item is available in a given community. See page 134)
Jumping?
Climb? (these are better suited for Barbarians)
Courtier (court etiquette)

I like the idea of granting another skill at 4th level. I didn't think of adding unarmed combat or inner sense to other classes. Good idea.

I don't think key combat abilities like Armour Expert or Berserk should be swappable with non-combat abilities.
Scott
rabindranath72
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Postby rabindranath72 » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:14 am

sbarrie wrote:I came up with something similar, especially for Knights who aren't part of the Gentry or Nobility.

Skills of the Mediocre

Track
Ride Warhorse
Occupation? (See page 54 - mind you, if you can hold down a regular job, why are you an adventurer?)
Mariner (trained as a naval officer, but also an able-bodied seaman, which may be more relevant in an adventure)
Entertain (pick a form, like storytelling or singing)
Light Sleeper? (Would all players try to pick this?)
Catechism (unusually knowledgeable about the Church)
Merchant (by taking a bit more time, can make a second roll to determine if a given item is available in a given community. See page 134)
Jumping?
Climb? (these are better suited for Barbarians)
Courtier (court etiquette)

I like the idea of granting another skill at 4th level. I didn't think of adding unarmed combat or inner sense to other classes. Good idea.

I don't think key combat abilities like Armour Expert or Berserk should be swappable with non-combat abilities.
Thanks for the feedback!
Nice ideas there, something to think about.

I totally agree with Armour Expert and Berserk. In fact, they cannot be swapped (at least that's how I intended them). You have one of those abilities (depending whether you are a barbarian or knight), plus two free choices (like Assassins).
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sbarrie
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Postby sbarrie » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:26 pm

rabindranath72 wrote: I totally agree with Armour Expert and Berserk. In fact, they cannot be swapped (at least that's how I intended them). You have one of those abilities (depending whether you are a barbarian or knight), plus two free choices (like Assassins).
I see that now.

Actually, I think Weaponskill is pretty equivalent to Armour Expert - Armour Expert gives +1 armour as long as you have the correct armour (plate), Weaponskill gives +1 to armour bypass rolls as long as you have the correct weapon.

Your chosen weapon may not come into play every combat (i.e. ranged combat if you picked a melee weapon), but in my experience neither does armour (in RPGs). More armour may be a more strategic choice, but more damage is often a more enjoyable choice.

I originally looked at swapping abilities because I wanted to make a Robin Hood style character by replacing Armour Expert with Master Bowman, and replacing Ride Warhorse with Disguise. I think most of a Knight's Skills of the Mighty could replace Armour Expert if it fits the character.
Scott
rabindranath72
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Postby rabindranath72 » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:44 am

sbarrie wrote:
rabindranath72 wrote: I totally agree with Armour Expert and Berserk. In fact, they cannot be swapped (at least that's how I intended them). You have one of those abilities (depending whether you are a barbarian or knight), plus two free choices (like Assassins).
I see that now.

Actually, I think Weaponskill is pretty equivalent to Armour Expert - Armour Expert gives +1 armour as long as you have the correct armour (plate), Weaponskill gives +1 to armour bypass rolls as long as you have the correct weapon.

Your chosen weapon may not come into play every combat (i.e. ranged combat if you picked a melee weapon), but in my experience neither does armour (in RPGs). More armour may be a more strategic choice, but more damage is often a more enjoyable choice.

I originally looked at swapping abilities because I wanted to make a Robin Hood style character by replacing Armour Expert with Master Bowman, and replacing Ride Warhorse with Disguise. I think most of a Knight's Skills of the Mighty could replace Armour Expert if it fits the character.
Yes, swapping skills is another interesting idea (which is also mentioned in the book, by the way).
I still wonder why those skills are placed from 8th level onward, and whether they are supposed to be all equivalent among themselves. Assassins can get an equivalent of the Weaponskill ability at 1st rank, so perhaps it has nothing to do with the fact that those Knight skills are too powerful to be granted earlier.
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