Is it just me, or has this forum stalled?

Discuss Mongoose RPGs here, such as the OGL rulebooks, Jeremiah, Armageddon 2089 and Macho Women with Guns
throrII
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Is it just me, or has this forum stalled?

Postby throrII » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:19 pm

It just seems that since 2nd ed was introduced, that the forums have really slowed to a crawl. Discussions range from '10,000 BC' movie to other side-topics.

Has the introduction of 2e 'split' the fanbase, causing a drop off of posting, or (heaven forbid) even playing?

Has the introduction of many already covered books (Road of Kings, Scrolls of Skelos), despite the fact that they may have new information, killed intrest?

I know I've never been a big poster, but I'm here almost daily, and speak up when I feel the need (or whim). It just seems different here over the last several months.
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Postby Der Rote Baron » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:37 pm

No, it's just you. We are all having a party here but did not invite you to beer and conversation - ON PURPOSE! :twisted:

:lol: :D :lol:


But I agree: Could be more lively here ...
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Postby UberDog » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:03 am

I'm new but semi-posty. I love the game and love Conan.
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Postby throrII » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:53 am

Der Rote Baron wrote:No, it's just you. We are all having a party here but did not invite you to beer and conversation - ON PURPOSE!
Oh, that explains it......kinda like when I was back in high school......
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Postby Hervé » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:00 am

Well, it's been so long since we had a real supplement (Shem is so far away!)
Most second Ed stuff is made of reprints, so I guess everybody's waiting for something new. Like many people here, I think Mongoose blew it with the 2nd Ed. Lack of new stuff, many printing problems and slow release schedule didn't help to make the game popular.
Like throrII, I feel activity on this forum has slowed. The fact that some of the major actors of this forum (like Vincent or Thulsa, to name only two) doesn't seem to have to much time on their hands seems to be another reason.
Let's hope that the release of the MMO and the upcoming 2009 movie will give some new strength to the license (although I hope the forum won't be swarmed by MMO Kevins... Geez, I 'm far too old to even understand their language!).
Until then, keep the faith and keep posting!
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Postby Yogah of Yag » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:01 pm

Hello, all! :D

I'd have to agree. It has gotten really slow, but I'm also (partially) to blame for that. I was a REALLY frequent poster and contributor, but since early '07 I have pretty much moved on from Conan, and the subsequent arrival of 2E just sealed the deal for me. I've gotten back into 1E AD&D, and into historical miniatures wargaming and spend more time on fora that relate to those subjects. Since I know nothing about Conan 2E, I'm afraid that if I make a suggestion, or ask questions, I'll get snapped at by you youngsters and your new-fangled second edition. :lol: Plus, it's just RL (work, social life, &c.) getting in the way of slacking-off and RPGing.
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Postby The King » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:08 pm

For my part, I didn't buy any Conan 2E stuff yet and don't intend to unless it is something truly new. It is possible that Hervé is right there. The only new thing is this edition is that it is B/W instead of full color.

Moreover I migrated on the Runequest forum because I am also a Glorantha fan.
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Postby Der Rote Baron » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:07 pm

Yogah of Yag wrote:Hello, all! :D

I'd have to agree. It has gotten really slow, but I'm also (partially) to blame for that. I was a REALLY frequent poster and contributor, but since early '07 I have pretty much moved on from Conan, and the subsequent arrival of 2E just sealed the deal for me. I've gotten back into 1E AD&D, and into historical miniatures wargaming and spend more time on fora that relate to those subjects. Since I know nothing about Conan 2E, I'm afraid that if I make a suggestion, or ask questions, I'll get snapped at by you youngsters and your new-fangled second edition. :lol: Plus, it's just RL (work, social life, &c.) getting in the way of slacking-off and RPGing.
He has a REAL LIFE - GO GET HIM; GUYS!

Hmmm, but I do have to agree with yunz that Second Edition has some nice option (combat maneuvers, some streamlining of the Soldier Class, Defensive Blasts etc.), but other than that is more a slight step back than forth.

I do continue to buy the new stuff - partly because I am a collector and like to have a "full set" of things -, but speaking from a gamers point of view 1st Edition ROCKED & ROLLED (can't say anything about the Atlantean Edition) whereas the Second Edition is just good pop music.

Too bad. What we need is an ACHERON EDITION/ STYGIAN ISSUE of the rules: Better binding (old, 1st edition standard) and FULL COLOUR!
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Postby The King » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:39 pm

Der Rote Baron wrote:Too bad. What we need is an ACHERON EDITION/ STYGIAN ISSUE of the rules: Better binding (old, 1st edition standard) and FULL COLOUR!
I suggest Mongoose use human skin for better binding (a la Necronomicon).
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Postby Padre » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:55 pm

I blame The Long Cold Wait. It showed me that I can live without buying a Conan book every month. Also, I have yet to use most of the supplements on my shelf, so Shem, Argos/Zingara and all 2ed. stuff can wait (well, I would like to buy Shem, but my local shop does not have it and I am too lazy to get it somewhere else). Since I don't buy new stuff, I don't have topics to discuss. However, what I would buy in a heartbeat is a good campaign (hopefully Trial of Blood), Turan, Vendhya *hint, hint* or something like Ruins of Hyboria (Cities of Hyboria look promising).
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Postby High Lord Dee » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:56 am

I agree with the 'stall'. Took the wind out of it for awhile. However, perhaps Cimeria will spice it up enough to blow the dust off the books? We will see....

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Postby librarycharlie » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:26 am

I know I'll get grilled just for suggesting it, but I think one of the pitfalls of creating a game with such a dedicated fanbase is the occasionally too-strict adherence to Howard canon.

Let's face the fact that three compilation-books worth of stories has generated more than five times that amount of game material, most of it done with loving (almost slavish) attention to Howard's every hint as to the political and geographical world he envisioned. As a fan of Howard's work, I appreciate this. As a GM and roleplayer, I would MUCH rather see a fresh take on empires or continents to the West of Zingara, east of Khitai (or more about Khitai itself, a largely pastiche land in many ways richer for new RP experiences than Cimmeria), or simply a storyline that tells of events years after Conan's passing into the uncaring realm of the gods.

A symptom of this canonical overadherence can be found in the title of arguably the most useful Conan book to date, Tito's Trading Post. Rather than create a new and interesting merchant with a web of connections and intrigue (as in the S&P supplement on Omu's Ark of Delight), the marketers (or the extremely esteemed Vincent, I don't know which) decided to go with Tito as their frontman, title, and cover. As I recall, he dies barely moments after being introduced in Howard's story... but as one of few merchants named in Howard's canon, he gets the spotlight rather than a more interesting "new" figure. And again the focus is not, in some places, as focused on gameplay as it might be. The description in the book of a sewing needle is nearly as long as that of thieves' tools. Nearly every Conan RP group will have a thief who uses his/her tools regularly, has them taken away, has to use makeshift tools, etc., but this vital piece of equipment that defines an entire segment of the gaming population doesn't get the focus it should. Instead, the book reads very evenhandedly, more as a list of items that exist in the Conan world, than as a book designed with playing of the Conan game in mind. That said, I still think it shines as one of the finer books in the series because of the many fine sections that do directly affect gameplay.

Roleplaying, in my experience, perishes under slavish adherence to any concept or world, however interesting. The way that classic games and worlds continue to expand their fanbases is to expand (a la Forgotten Realms) or extend (Legend of the Five Rings) their game worlds or timelines. Continuing the expansion into new areas and new times is something familiar to those who keep up with one of the largest fanbases in the world, that of Star Wars, which spans beyond the Skywalker galaxy, and temporally from Knights of an Old Republic to beyond Jedi of a New Order.

Conan, due to the nature of the protagonist, and the broad and largely unseen world beyond Howard's canon, is limited in audience (albeit to a sizeable one).

It's only one man's opinion, but as long as the books coming out continue to be places (almost exclusively places) that have either been already covered elsewhere (Shem, Zingara), or simply aren't significantly different from those already published, there just isn't enough marketing power in the world to expand the fanbase beyond its current limits. I poured through a dozen books trying to find out anything about the nation of Kosala, which is as big as Zingara, but couldn't find good details anywhere. I finally had to turn to the forum and ask. It's uncharted territory. A blank slate for adventure. That's what fantasy -and writing in general- is about.

One other note here is that some books, while shining in the area of "new" material, have glaring omissions of usable "rollplaying" content. I'm speaking here specifically of the Faith and Fervour book. After reading Stygia, I decided I wanted to play a priest of Asura, spending skill points to unlock powerful "inner mysteries" like those in the worship of Set. After shelling out nearly twenty dollars for the book (a pdf download), I discovered that it was nearly devoid of any usable in-game skills, feats, etc., making it the least used of all my group's purchased books. The Hyboria's "F" series and the Pirate Isles, on the other hand, have players reading and rereading looking for feats, skills, maneuvers, and other things that they can use, not just to enhance the way they act like their characters, but how they can play their characters.

I know. It's blasphemous. I have seen some things with promise along the lines I suggest here. The Saami from S&P 41 (short again on game stats), and the new classes from S&P give me hope that we'll get more variety from Conan in the future.

Cheers, and I hope nobody takes personally the comments of the above post. They are intended only with the spirit of trying to bring more attention and support to a game I enjoy.
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Postby High Lord Dee » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:44 am

Applause...

Long live the Pastiche!!! I have read virtually every pastiche and think that they can all add a lot to Howard's Hyboria (granted, some are tough to get through and the adjective "Conan" can be questioned). In fact, the Marvel Conan is what really got me excited about the character in the first place.

Both Pastiche and Marvel (and now Dark Horse) add a tremendous amount of depth and "opportunity" to create NPC's along with some great adventuring background. A DM's dream, so to speak especially if your group has limited exposure to said pastiche.

Without them, there would not be much to "game" about. And, we all should remember that this is a game afterall. If you have a hard time with that concept, check out the Conan.com site. Much more along the lines of literature. Not enough original Howard material to create a world for gaming other than those that enjoy writing all much of their own material and then you have plenty.

Conan has its challenges as an RPG. Low Magic for one thing...always a challenge for fantasy RPG'ers. Yet, its unique blend of Swords & Sorcery give it a better chance of success than many of the others. The d20 rules system is awesome and even if you do not have any Howard experience is certainly worth a shot.

I will have to disagree on the Tito's analogy though. I found it to be THE LEAST useful Conan book to date - unless I am reading your post incorrectly. Would love to see Mongoose finish up the regional books and then spand outwards to the lesser known regions. And, I do agree, that in any recreation of ficitional worlds, that is where the gamers can take over without changing the history of the setting (i.e. Ardor in ICE's Middle Earth was one of the best Gaming Settings in Middle Earth to date). I do like some modules set in the future (post Conan) idea but also strongly vote on the past (Kull and Atlantis). Lot of options so I hope Mongoose keeps plugging away.

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Postby bradius » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:45 am

As a GM, I find Faith & Fervor to be one of the better books. I do refer to it often. I don't have Tito's. It looks to be a rehash of material that has been printed elsewhere. I might buy it if I can find a deeply discounted copy. I think the geographic source books are fantastic and necessary.
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Postby Hervé » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:40 am

Well, we got something there... It's true there's been harsh criticism against pastiche, something weird when you think that every adventure we run is a pastiche, too... Are our stories better than the ones of Thomas, Jordan or Maddox? Are they more canonical? I'm not so sure of it. Maybe there has been a little "intellectual vanity" from our part...

Anyways, I don't think it was the strict adherence (or not) to the Howard canon which caused the downfall of the game. It was Mongoose who blew it all with their 2nd Ed. CONAN SHOULD HAVE TURNED RQ! D20 is a dying breed. The 4th Ed of D&D will swipe the last remains of the D20 and Mongoose should have seen that, because everybody knew it was going to happen. The 2nd Ed brought absolutely nothing new, and it's ugly, B&W with a shitty binding... A RQ edition would have bought at least some fresh blood, something the 2nd Ed is totally lacking.

I just wish the line editor had the balls to express himself on this forum and tell us why such stupid choices were made. What was the point in making an edition that's inferior to the prior one? What was the point in making an edition that's uglier? What was the point in making an edition where there's absolutely nothing new? What was the point in reprinting old books in a new form when there's still plenty of things to be done? What was the point in choosing the D20 as a system when D&D 4th Ed was already announced (and RQ Conan already written)? There were so many bad choices that I sometimes feel they were made on purpose, as if Mongoose really wanted to blow it...
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Postby thulsa » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:02 am

Hervé wrote:Like throrII, I feel activity on this forum has slowed. The fact that some of the major actors of this forum (like Vincent or Thulsa, to name only two) doesn't seem to have to much time on their hands seems to be another reason.
I've noticed the slowdown in this forum as well. Many of the "oldtimers" seem to have left, moved on to other games, or perhaps just lurk instead of posting.

As far as I know, Vincent is busy writing material for the Solomon Kane RPG these days, so perhaps that explains his lack of posting here.

Myself, I am actually busy dungeon-mastering and playing the Conan RPG, so no worries... I have some more adventure conversions upcoming, but due to the events of my campaign I've had to shuffle things around a bit.

(And watching the coming of D&D 4E and Paizo's 3.75 from the sideline, knowing that it doesn't really affect me. The Conan RPG rules are good enough for my purposes.)

As for the Conan 1E vs 2E discussion, the second edition brought a much-needed cleanup of the rules, but I like the look of the first edition books better. The problem with the 2E book was not the lack of color per se, but that the illustrations used were intended for color printing, which resulted in murky images.

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Postby Sutek » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:47 am

I think all it is is that really new blood is of to 4r pastures, but the vets are just hovering and waiting for more to talk about. (lol) With new books comes new discussion, and right now I imagine that everyone is busily playing away with whatever edition of Conan they've chosen.

Do you really think 2e was a worth-while clean up? I haven't bought the new books because of price versus aesthetic.
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Postby Padre » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:16 am

Sutek wrote:Do you really think 2e was a worth-while clean up? I haven't bought the new books because of price versus aesthetic.
I plan to finally buy 2ed but not for the content. I just need a new one, so my players can use the old pre-Atlantean Edition at will :D. I don't really need a rules clean up, as I'm a rules-light GM anyway.

And by the way, July releases sound very interesting!
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Postby Hervé » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:35 am

Thulsa wrote:
As far as I know, Vincent is busy writing material for the Solomon Kane RPG these days, so perhaps that explains his lack of posting here.
Now that's good news!(although I learnt about this on the Pinnacle forum) The SK book from Pinnacle is both beautiful and excellent. Mongoose should take advice...

I know my comments may seem a bit harsh against Mongoose, but I'm regular customer and I've been somewhat disapointed by the last releases.
I bought all the 1st Ed and 2nd Ed stuff (except the Pocket Conan, but that still makes 3 different 50 bucks rulebooks!)), along with all the non Gloranthan RQ material (Elric, Hawkmoon, Lankhmar, Pirates, Slaine...). The new Conan books don't bring nothing new, apart from the new information in RttRoK (that could have been printed elsewhere, like in the PGH or in a forthcoming Companion II). I recently bought Bright Shadows, Magic of the YK and the Elric Companion. The contents of these books are good, but binding and printing are so poor that the books are barely readable and usable...
I'd really be interested to learn how 2nd Ed is selling compared to 1st Ed, as it seems that most of this forum users didn't get it. But I'm not sure our bunch of hardcore fans is a good reflect of the Conan gaming community...
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Postby Yogah of Yag » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:25 am

librarycharlie wrote:I have seen some things with promise along the lines I suggest here. The Saami from S&P 41 (short again on game stats)
Thank you! Finally I have recognition! :cry:
:D

There was some more 'crunch' in the original that was submitted, but it was stricken out, sadly. :cry: My very crunch-heavy adventure that I earlier submitted wasn't published either. Oh well. I'm over it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 1E Conan books don't solely stick to REH canon, but dip often into the pastiche pool. I don't think of Vincent's efforts as 'slavish', BTW, but necessary in order to earn the honour of the Conan license. If the books veered too far away from REH's material, the license would get yanked. Right?

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