Build yourself a Kai Lord

Discuss Mongoose RPGs here, such as the OGL rulebooks, Jeremiah, Armageddon 2089 and Macho Women with Guns
simjimm
Weasel
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:52 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Build yourself a Kai Lord

Postby simjimm » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:29 am

Of course we know that all the Kai disciplines are unique and powerful, but how would you prioritise them when making your character?

My Kai Disciplines, in order, would be:

1- Mindblast : Personally, I see the Psychic combat aspect as being one of the most important features of a Kai Lord. I'd therefore pick Mindblast pretty sharpish.
2- Hunting : Then I'd have the oh so useful Hunting with its great base bonuses and skills. Increases ones survivibility threefold.
3- Mindshield : As Mindblast; but one also needs defence!
4- Healing : Healing helps in increasing both the Kai Lords own staying power, and lends them to party support now in a greater fashion.
5- Mind over Matter : Well, telekinesis is cool, and more useful than one may believe. Its the prerequisite to Nexus anyway; and you need that!
6- Camouflage : Starts allows the Kai to take scouting roles a bit more and whip up convincing disguises, which is always handy!
7- Animal Kinship : Now begins the branching into Ranger type skills; calming those hostile beasts can be hideously useful.
8- Tracking : Again with the Ranger skills; you never know when they may come in handy.
9- Sixth Sense : The sixth sense is useful, but not that useful, so I'd reserve it to almost last and rely on the brothers Detect Evil spells!
10- Weaponskill : Though the source of much debate, I don't see the Kai as the uber martial warrior. Because of that, weaponskill is last for me.
God cannot reach you right now, he is eating hobnobs. Please Hold.
simjimm
Weasel
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:52 pm
Location: England
Contact:

And the Magnakai...

Postby simjimm » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:44 am

Moving onto the Magnakai Disciplines:

11- Nexus : I absolutely adore Nexus- with the combined abilities of holding ones breath, eating only once a week, getting the impervious aura, and eventually, the Soul of the Void, it would be my first Magnakai discipline anytime.
12- Huntmastery : Though the second tier seems a little counterproductive to me, Huntmastery allows so many useful bonuses like uber senses and mobility it simply can't be ignored.
13- Psi-Surge : Two words: Ishir's Regret. By level 17, I'll have a quite frankly sick psychic attack.
14- Psi-Screen : And in the same vein; I sure as hell don't want to be hit by the afformentioned Ishir's Regret. Damage reduction vs. Psi is a nice extra bonus too.
15- Divination : To me, it seems much more useful than its prerequisite Sixth Sense, as it gives the Kai some powers similar to the Dessi's prophecy.
16- Invisibility : The last power able to reach 5th tier, and I would eventually like Vanish!
17- Pathsmanship : That ability to speak all languages at 4th tier places the wonders of Pathsmanship next on my list.
18- Curing : Unfortunately, with it only reaching 3rd tier, I'd never get the useful True Rest, but nevermind, those poison removal powers are nice.
19- Weaponmastery : Again, as I don't value the Kai as a martial warrior, Weaponmastery is still quite low in priority.
20- Animal Control : A tough choice, but whilst Animal Kinship is I feel quite good, Animal Control seems lacking compared to other Magnakai powers.
God cannot reach you right now, he is eating hobnobs. Please Hold.
User avatar
August
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 548
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:46 pm

Postby August » Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:09 pm

Very nicely done, but I feel compelled to ask:

Does roleplaying enter into this equation at all? :)

-A
"This is a blanket apology to every god I can think of and all the ones I don't know. I have no idea what I did or in which life I did it, but I am really sorry. Ummm, my bad."
Confused Wolf
Mongoose
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:47 pm

Postby Confused Wolf » Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:46 pm

I think you underrate Sixth Sense (and you may not always have a "Banedon" with you).

Btw, as a GM I would rather be glad if a player chooses 6th Sense for his Kai Lord - it is a good tool for giving hints to the players when they stray too much (as players often do).
User avatar
Greg Smith
Warlord Mongoose
Posts: 8849
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:58 am
Location: Kettering UK
Contact:

Postby Greg Smith » Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:11 pm

In the books I always chose sixth sense first. It was far and away the most usefil discipline
"Bringer of Warmth, Carrier of Carrion, Prophet of Dilgarness, Speaker of all thing Llort!"

Part-time Narn.

ACTA playtester
Victorious Grand Admiral
Winter Wolf
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 7:30 am
Location: Yorkshire

Postby Winter Wolf » Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:14 pm

Healing was always on my list have must haves in the books, but it doesn't seem so crucial in the game. Good but not as vital as it was for getting through the books.

I think I would still take it first just for old time sake, if I wasn't GMing that is.. :roll: :)
Holmes
Stoat
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:14 pm
Location: DFW, Texas

Postby Holmes » Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:04 pm

Greg Smith wrote:In the books I always chose sixth sense first. It was far and away the most usefil discipline
True, but it could get Lone Wolf killed in Book 2 in the combat between Lone Wolf, Rhygar, and the Helghast in the battle at the Durenor forest.

In one of two story arcs, based on a random number pick, it would send Lone Wolf to immediately flee the conflict, and have to make another one of the dreaded 'pick one number out of 10 and immediately die' page numbers. :shock:

It is for this reason -depending on how 'adventurous' I felt with a particular Lone Wolf - I might wait until Book 3 to select Sixth Sense. :D
columbob
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:55 pm
Location: Québec

Postby columbob » Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:17 pm

Holmes wrote: It is for this reason -depending on how 'adventurous' I felt with a particular Lone Wolf - I might wait until Book 3 to select Sixth Sense. :D
But then you wouldn't meet Banedon in the first one.

The three skills I never left home (or the Kai Monastery, in this case) without in the first book were 6th Sense, Healing and Weaponskill. The other two often varied quite a bit (which is part of the reason the books were so much fun!).
Up the Irons!
Skyman
Shrew
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:41 pm

Postby Skyman » Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:57 pm

Eventually I'd played the kai series so many times that I started just randomly picking disciplines to make it more of a challenge. Hmm, anyway...

1. Hunting: I just love the idea of a super fast, super alert character, and self-sufficiency seems very useful to a Kai Lord.
2. Sixth Sense: This just seems like one of those zen, hyper-aware, connected to the universe kinds of things, and that's what being a Kai is all about.
3. Weaponskill: I like the whole concept of martial training as an expression of devotion, since it tends to be very tough to learn. Kind of a Shaolin type thing.
4. Mindblast: The scenes where Lone Wolf causes some poor fool to clutch his head and fall over are just cool. :lol:
5: Animal Kinship: Again, this can just lead to some cool scenarios, and it helps with self-sufficiency in the wild.
6. Tracking: With this discipline the Kai has become a pretty cool ranger-type.
7: Mind Shield: Once you have this discipline you can have cool psychic duels.
8: Healing: Useful, but I usually pick it late because it seems like something that would take most Kai a while to achieve.
9: Mind over matter: Interesting, but again it seems like a 'higher level' discipline for flavor reasons to me. Of course, you'd always have a few students who master it quickly.
10: Camouflage: Always seemed a bit lackluster to me in the books, and my playing style has always been a bit more of the direct sort than 'hide in the bushes and hope they'll pass'. :wink:

In any case, I try to select disciplines based on my character concept, but those are often about the order I pick them for Lone Wolf
Holmes
Stoat
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:14 pm
Location: DFW, Texas

Postby Holmes » Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:47 pm

columbob wrote:
Holmes wrote: It is for this reason -depending on how 'adventurous' I felt with a particular Lone Wolf - I might wait until Book 3 to select Sixth Sense. :D
But then you wouldn't meet Banedon in the first one.
True, but that's just 'flaver text' in later books. Actually, I rarely go meet Banedon in Book 1 in any case, as the book describes the direction as having to go being in the Northeast, and the undergrowth being thicker/harder to cut through.

Putting myself in the role of Lone Wolf the last few times, I've been inclined to head south (towards Holmgard), as quickly as possible (not cutting through undergrowth).

From that standpoint, going the NE route to meet up with Banedon seems to fly in the face of what appears to be a fairly conscious decision on Mr. Dever's part that the player is 'rewarded' for going the 'right way' towards a particular destination that seems to crop up often in the series...

Some cases in point:

Take the north tunnel in the Graveyard of the Ancients (away from Holmgard) and you'd better have Mind Over Matter or you're likely to have the ceiling crash in on you. The south way, you find the Golden Key that helps you avoid this fate.

Go west after being shipwrecked in Book 2 (away from Durenor), and there's a decent chance you get killed by a sandsnake that night while you sleep.

Head west in the tunnels towards Ragadorn in Book 4 and you can get through the tunnels in 3 or 4 pages. Go south (sorta away from it), and you wind up going through 2-3 encounters with bandits.

Leave the main tunnel towards the Cathedral in Book 6 and you get eaten by Something Or Other.

I think the case with Banedon is about the only instance where the player is rewarded for going 'away' from their goal on the map. :?:

I guess a case could be made that you are heading NE to get to the highway between Toran and Holmgard...but then again, I would think a Kai initiate trying to stay out of the sights of the invading army isn't going to be heading towards an open highway in any case...
Skyman
Shrew
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:41 pm

Postby Skyman » Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:02 pm

I always just thought of it as Lone Wolf being worried about running into enemies and going into the underbrush just so he can cut through and find a less dangerous path south, not any particular road.
simjimm
Weasel
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:52 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Postby simjimm » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:46 am

Mongoose August wrote:Very nicely done, but I feel compelled to ask:

Does roleplaying enter into this equation at all? :)

-A
Looking at it, it does seem a bit Munchkin I suppose :twisted: This is no way a be all and end all- "I'm choosing these disciplines and thats it!" kind of thing- most likely I would vary in actual roleplay, depending on the party I was with and the adventure. But judging from a purely 'looking at the books and picking' point of view, this is how I'd 'Build my Kai lord'
I think you underrate Sixth Sense (and you may not always have a "Banedon" with you).

Btw, as a GM I would rather be glad if a player chooses 6th Sense for his Kai Lord - it is a good tool for giving hints to the players when they stray too much (as players often do).
Ah, but as a GM, you should let your players stray if thats what they want-You may have a set adventure to keep and plot points to get across, but remember first and foremost you players need to have fun! When I GM, I do subtly give plot devices, but I never suggest any course of action to them- part of the fun of roleplay comes from the excessive freedom it offers, and anyway, it is vast fun to improvise when your a GM- I did a great Forgotten Realms game where the players desperately wanted to screw the plot and enter a 5 day gladitorial contest in Sembia! We all had vast fun with that, and I'm glad I didn't force them to move on.
God cannot reach you right now, he is eating hobnobs. Please Hold.
Holmes
Stoat
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:14 pm
Location: DFW, Texas

Postby Holmes » Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:56 pm

Mongoose August wrote:Very nicely done, but I feel compelled to ask:

Does roleplaying enter into this equation at all? :)

-A
Funny you should mention that. I've got a player in my online game running a Kai Lord. He selected Hunting as his first Discipline, and he plays that aspect of his character to the hilt.

It was actually a little disturbing at first :shock: until I reread the first paragraph of the Hunting discipline again... :lol:
User avatar
Eternalknight
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 11:35 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Postby Eternalknight » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:05 pm

I have two Kai in my campaign, both currently 2nd level. The first one chose Healing followed by Sixth Sense; the 2nd chose Mindblast followed by Camouflage.

In our play by post over at EN World, there are thre Kai lords all of 3rd level; mine started with Hunting and followed up with Tracking and Camouflage; adgramaine's has Hunting, Weaponskill and Minshield; and Relenoir has Sixth Sense, Healing and Hunting.
Coming soon: Adventurer, Solo Roleplaying Game

www.adventuregamesguild.com
Confused Wolf
Mongoose
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:47 pm

Postby Confused Wolf » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:29 pm

Ah, but as a GM, you should let your players stray if thats what they want-You may have a set adventure to keep and plot points to get across, but remember first and foremost you players need to have fun!
You are right. But sometimes players stray without wanting to and without having fun. They'd like to solve the mystery/problem presented to them, but somehow they can't manage to, just running into dead ends where even GM improvising won't keep the story moving. In such a situation 6th Sense might be a good tool to lead them back on track, though, as you pointed out, one has to be careful not to force a solution upon them
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:39 pm

HEy EK, how do you handle dice rolls on enworld?
User avatar
Eternalknight
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 11:35 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Postby Eternalknight » Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:18 am

The GM does them all for us.
Coming soon: Adventurer, Solo Roleplaying Game

www.adventuregamesguild.com
Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:45 pm

Hello I just joined the forum and thought I would put my two bits in.

The order in which I would take the disciplines are based on a character I want to play who would be a long distance tracker. Long times away from home with little or no resources

I think I am picking the disciplines right so let me know if I have somehow gone wrong.

Tracking: I always pictured a Kai Lord as being one who can track down a bandit to his lair regardless of the circumstances.
Hunting: You need to be able to take care of yourself in the wild.
Healing: You might not ever be near a doctor or you might have to be the doctor for others
Sixth Sense: You never know when you will need it but it is good to have when you do.
Animal Kinship: You are in the wild anyway get to know the neighborhood.
Camouflage: Not only able to track but invisible too.
WeaponSkill: Never hurts to be good with a few weapons, Bow X3 and spear
MindShield: Need to be able to resist attacks.
Mindblast: A little late but still useful to add cha to damage.
Mind over matter: I wanted it sooner but too many other things got in the way.

Now for the magnakai disciplines I had a little more room to play with
Pathmanship:To continue the path to be the greatest Tracker
Huntmastery: Still working on the Tracking skills and the Track by scent ability rounds things out nicely.
Animal control: If you need allies just go get them. It is the wilderness after all.
Psi Shield: To gain more resistance to psi attacks.
Invisibility: Mostly for utter slience but Vanish is nice too.
Weaponmastery: Keeping up in weapon training is important.
Curing: To be able to cure all poisions is very nice and True Rest is very Powerful.
Divination: To get timless touch and be able to touch the trail he is following for more information.
Nexus: To get Broken Chains
Psi-Surge: Late but still nice to shatter objects with the power of his mind.

This path is all for the characters dedication to becoming a super hunter/tracker.
Hida Reju
Cub
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:05 pm
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Postby Hida Reju » Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:47 pm

Sorry got logged out before my post submitted.
Death is but a doorway. Time is but a key. Life is just the road to that door.
User avatar
Greg Smith
Warlord Mongoose
Posts: 8849
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:58 am
Location: Kettering UK
Contact:

Postby Greg Smith » Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:51 pm

Hey Hida, welcome to the Mongoose madness and mayhem. :D
"Bringer of Warmth, Carrier of Carrion, Prophet of Dilgarness, Speaker of all thing Llort!"

Part-time Narn.

ACTA playtester
Victorious Grand Admiral

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests