Paperback?

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MIK0
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Paperback?

Postby MIK0 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:30 am

I have to buy the paperback because the quality of the Collectors edition is under any level of pessimistic immagination.
What I wish to know is when and if the paperbacks will be sold. The second CE book is out and no paperback is out at this time.
So is the good thing of buying the CE to read the book first in a Cheap Edition (paid more) waiting for the, I hope, better quality paperback?
Also would be good to update the retailers about the date of shipping cause they had the old date on their site and customers have no way to find out when the book will be out. And maybe something official on the site.

I'm sending back my FfdD CE for the second time asking for a total refund because the quality won't improve but I still want to read the new revisited book of LW and there's no paperback. So have I to buy the CE to read the book?

Next week the first book in paperback edition will be sold in my country (Italy) and probably I'll buy it but I really want to read LW in english once to be able to read exacly what Dever wrote.
It's really strange that the Italian paperback will be out before the english one.
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Postby Greg Smith » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:35 am

The paperbacks have disappeared from the release schedule. :?:
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MIK0
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Postby MIK0 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:41 am

Greg Smith wrote:The paperbacks have disappeared from the release schedule. :?:
What an unpleasant thing to know...
So to read the book I have to buy the CE or wait indefinitly...
Dobey Kweeg
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Postby Dobey Kweeg » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:41 am

Hmm - thats a bit disturbing - Matthew sprange said the book was being prepped for Mid Oct release in PB in the thread I started.

Having seen and heard about the problems of the collectors edition, and being on a tight budget, I'm banking on the paperback versions...
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Postby BlackCat » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:29 pm

Greg Smith wrote:The paperbacks have disappeared from the release schedule. :?:
Not only that, but the new RPG too!
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Postby Balgin Stondraeg » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:06 pm

BlackCat wrote:
Greg Smith wrote:The paperbacks have disappeared from the release schedule. :?:
Not only that, but the new RPG too!
That's really not looking good :(. It would be nice to know what's going on here.
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Postby Winter Wolf » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:38 am

I hope it's just a technical problem. I have ordered the mega deal but was looking forward to getting my hands on the multi player game book.

WW
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Postby msprange » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:45 am

Winter Wolf wrote:I hope it's just a technical problem.
It is just a technical problem, and one that should be resolved very quickly. We have concentrated efforts this week on the hardbacks, clearing the last of the orders for books 1 & 2 (orders are still coming in!), and prepping for book 3 (just about ready to go, will be making room in the printing process next week for it).

You can expect to see the softbacks re-appear shortly after that.
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MIK0
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Postby MIK0 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:44 pm

msprange wrote: You can expect to see the softbacks re-appear shortly after that.
Will the paperback have the standard page margins or the random ones like the hardback?
No random line at top of the pages?
Is the map coloured?
More info please.
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Postby Ferital » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:58 pm

I will wait for the comments on the paperback editions and if they are ok I will only buy the next books in this format, because the Collector's Editions are really horribly packaged, which is a shame considering their price. My copy of FftD is even better than my copy of FotW. Moreover the books are not of the same size, FotW being larger than FftD. So I have absolutely no hope for the CE of TCoK. I'm even considering in selling my hardback copies of the first two books and rebuying them in paperback (if this edition is correct).
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Postby pelethar » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:47 pm

Having had a few email exchanges with a very helpful guy at Mongoose about my own paperback orders of books 1 and 2, the latest status is apparently as follows:

They are currently working on producing paperbacks of the required quality, but are as yet unable to provide a definite date when this will be done. They are provisionally working towards this happening in November but this is only an estimate. The good news though is that apparently once the process of making and binding the paperbacks has been sorted then there should be no delays moving forward. This should hopefully be a one off while they are getting off the ground, similar to that which happened with the hardbacks - then there will presumably be a delay while they clear the backlog of orders, then we should hopefully be in business.
MIK0
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Postby MIK0 » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:23 pm

pelethar wrote:Having had a few email exchanges with a very helpful guy at Mongoose about my own paperback orders of books 1 and 2, the latest status is apparently as follows:

They are currently working on producing paperbacks of the required quality, but are as yet unable to provide a definite date when this will be done. They are provisionally working towards this happening in November but this is only an estimate. The good news though is that apparently once the process of making and binding the paperbacks has been sorted then there should be no delays moving forward. This should hopefully be a one off while they are getting off the ground, similar to that which happened with the hardbacks - then there will presumably be a delay while they clear the backlog of orders, then we should hopefully be in business.
This is good to know. If the final quality will be good, flawless and with a design made with the reader in mind I can wait much longer. I was disappointed by the quality of the hardback, but if paperback is good I'll gladly buy them all.
einsamerwolf
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Postby einsamerwolf » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:11 pm

quality of hardback isn"t that good, really :?

paperback is listed at amazon
# Taschenbuch: 456 Seiten
# Verlag: Mongoose Publishing (22. November 2007)
# Sprache: Englisch
# ISBN-10: 1905850654
# ISBN-13: 978-1905850655

but i do not believe
GreyLord
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Postby GreyLord » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:05 pm

No offense, but does anyone here actually KNOW anything about quality printings. Paperbacks normally use a glue backing, which actually makes them the WORST type of binding...period. And since you can use lower quality paper, that also makes them able to use...lower quality paper.

If the hardback is sewn in ANY fashion or way...it is heads and tails a higher quality than the paperback binding. The complaints about the hardbacks having a hard time staying open is not a reflection of quality or binding really, though it might make the cover tear up more easily, the binding will stay around FAR longer and be FAR more durable than any paperback.

I can't say that the quality of the hardbacks is terrific...but who ever is telling people to wait for the paperback because it's better...is insane...crazy...and too me doesn't sound like they know what they are talking about in relation to book quality in relation to binding quality.

Personally, when I look to see how durable a book is, the first thing I look for is to see how the binding is (smyth-sewn seems to be the normal now days, though there are some which I think could do really nice as well).

The biggest reason I suspect that people don't like the way the FFtD was bound is because it's a particularly tight binding. That doesn't mean that it's a bad binding, just that it's more tight than others usually are.

I'd imagine however, that this could be problematic, but not as terrible as some seem to be making it sound. However bad it is, it is in no way as bad as a paperback which is typically made for a single read and then to be tossed.

So excuse me if I sound absolutely floored that people are even suggesting the idea that a paperback is of better quality than a book which may have a sewn backing. That's rather insane to be making such a claim.

Archiving books would always prefer sewn to paperback, as paperbacks invariably have to get rebound (and sometimes as a sewn binding even before they put them in the archives without giving them a chance to have the glue decay and the pages then fall out) sooner than later.

Okay, sorry about that. Just all this ridiculous talk about a quality paperback over a sewn binding had me freak out for a second there.
MIK0
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Postby MIK0 » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:34 pm

GreyLord wrote:No offense, but does anyone here actually KNOW anything about quality printings. Paperbacks normally use a glue backing, which actually makes them the WORST type of binding...period. And since you can use lower quality paper, that also makes them able to use...lower quality paper.

If the hardback is sewn in ANY fashion or way...it is heads and tails a higher quality than the paperback binding. The complaints about the hardbacks having a hard time staying open is not a reflection of quality or binding really, though it might make the cover tear up more easily, the binding will stay around FAR longer and be FAR more durable than any paperback.

I can't say that the quality of the hardbacks is terrific...but who ever is telling people to wait for the paperback because it's better...is insane...crazy...and too me doesn't sound like they know what they are talking about in relation to book quality in relation to binding quality.
Obviously people here wish to have a decent hardback and the fact that many of them (inclused me) hope in the paperback for a better quality is a measure of how much the hardback are far from be a decent quality book.
My italian paperback of the LW from 1-27 are still in good condition even after 15 years when the hardbook wont last a year.
Tight binding is not a good thing. My first copy almost lost some pages (partially detached) and I opened the book only few times without reading it completly.
GreyLord wrote:Personally, when I look to see how durable a book is, the first thing I look for is to see how the binding is (smyth-sewn seems to be the normal now days, though there are some which I think could do really nice as well).

The biggest reason I suspect that people don't like the way the FFtD was bound is because it's a particularly tight binding. That doesn't mean that it's a bad binding, just that it's more tight than others usually are.

I'd imagine however, that this could be problematic, but not as terrible as some seem to be making it sound. However bad it is, it is in no way as bad as a paperback which is typically made for a single read and then to be tossed.

So excuse me if I sound absolutely floored that people are even suggesting the idea that a paperback is of better quality than a book which may have a sewn backing. That's rather insane to be making such a claim.

Archiving books would always prefer sewn to paperback, as paperbacks invariably have to get rebound (and sometimes as a sewn binding even before they put them in the archives without giving them a chance to have the glue decay and the pages then fall out) sooner than later.

Okay, sorry about that. Just all this ridiculous talk about a quality paperback over a sewn binding had me freak out for a second there.
Bindind is indeed important and these hardbook proved to be done without thinking about the person that will read them. Hard to open is not good and this thightness is not synonym of longer durability. The most critical pages are the ones that will break for sure because the whole book is kept togheter by 2 pages for each sides.
Also binding was not the only problem: random margins, random senseless line on the top of the pages, image cropped and other things are all things that show a production issue.

So we hope for the paperback because they are the only hope to give a great comeback to the LW series.
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Postby GreyLord » Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:26 am

Interesting. Look at the ends of the pages...are there holes there? Or are there little, what appear to be strands? If so then that's really odd? A sewn book has those traits, but shouldn't have pages ripping out.

All smyth-sewn on a normal hardback binding they do these days are attached to the cover by two pages and also many times to the back of the book binding itself, but they are attached together by a common sewing in the back. Hence whilst the cover might fall off, the pages should stay together. On the otherhand the paperback's glue will eventually decay, and instead of the pages staying together, they will fall apart.

The difference is when the pages stay together, all the book needs is a new cover to reattach them to. When the pages fall out, they all need to be rebound, and hopefully one didn't lose any in the process.

Another difference is that one is held overall by paper, the other by an actual thread.

The final is that if exposed to heat, the paperback will eventually have it's glue melt in high enough heat and the pages will also fall out of the cover and each other, while a sewn cover will not have the pages fall apart so easily in heat.

There is the obvious difference as well that the actual backing, or cover of a paperback is a lowergrade cardstock than normal hardbacks, and since this is what the pages are also glued to (unless you have a REALLY high quality binding) the paperback tends to tear up more easily.

I haven't been able to see a copy of the first book first hand as of yet, but one should examine the pages. It could be a copy of a sewn hardback, in which they copycat the look, but the pages are glued in like a paperback. Or they could have used a very lowgrade quality of paper to try to bind it?

However, if it shows that it has strings and such, or was sewn, if it was sewn to the back of the cover, it is a different type of stitch perhaps, which could also be a different version. It's actually a great stitch for books, but you can't open the covers as easily sometimes. This is because the pages are actually sewn in connection to the cover. This is best done with leather volumes. If you do open them like you might other hardbacks, they have a higher chance of tearing a few strings. This could cause pages to fray. It also would last as long as the cover lasts, as long as one doesn't go around breaking the pages.

Anyway one puts it however, I'd rather have a hardback any day, simply put, because the paperback will be put together the same way normally as the cheapest hardbacks, but be less durable.

The other advantage of having the hardback is that you can have it rebound as long as it was a sewn binding. That would mean the paper is high enough quality that most binders would consider rebinding it for you. With a paperback many times some binders won't even consider a paperback rebinding with anything but glue as it was originally, or some other method other than sewn, depends on the binders, what they deal with.

A library binder or those who work with libraries probably would still rebind it with a higher quality binding.

I've yet to see a paperback that is higher quality than a hardback as far as binding goes, I suppose when I finally lay eyes on FFtD I can tell whether a lot of it is hype or what is occurring with the bindings.
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Postby EvilRedEye » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:44 pm

Out of curiosity GreyLord, how come you know so much about bindings? Is it work-related?
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Postby GreyLord » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:15 am

One could say that.

Apart from work however, I also have a hobby of collecting Old books, and one learns alot about books, quality, paper, ink (believe it or not, ink is also important) and bindings from that hobby as well. So it's also preservation of my own library of materials and actual experience in old book preservation and collecting. I also tend to look for durability now in new books when I buy them by default too, so when I live to my planned 100 years of age, hopefully those books will be there with me!

:)
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Postby Arkansaw » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:33 pm

I haven't had any pages falling out, but I had been reading the comments...so there wasn't any rough handling on my part. I think the cover could have been made with stronger paper, as there were some dents on the edges that should have been filled with backing completely, but apparently there was some air trapped during the binding process?
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Postby Balgin Stondraeg » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:24 pm

Don't worry there, only Miko's had any pages fall out so far.
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