Why should I?

Discuss Mongoose RPGs here, such as the OGL rulebooks, Jeremiah, Armageddon 2089 and Macho Women with Guns
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Clovenhoof
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Postby Clovenhoof » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:03 am

Well, I have played one fantasy RPG or other, and I can honestly say that I like the Conan system best. It offers exactly the tools that I need and creates the atmosphere that I want. Which includes, to name a few, equipment independency, limited magic, powerful heroes, and a pretty fast and versatile combat system that consists of more than wearing down the combatants' hitpoints.
(not to mention a wonderfully politically-incorrect game world. Lovely.)
Conan D20 is a relatively complicated and crunchy system.
Everything is relative. ^^ There may be simpler and less detailed systems than Conan, but there are many that are _far_ more complicated, as not to say muddled. Rolemaster and Harnmaster come to mind (charts, charts, charts), but the most terrible mainstream system I can think of would be The Dark Eye.
Over all, D20 in general is a pretty fast, flexible and intuitive system, compared to most other systems on the market.
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Majestic7
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Postby Majestic7 » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:13 am

If you have trouble with the system, you can play Conan with some other mechanics - I think Mongoose's books work fine as source books and background material for other systems as well. I'm not a great fan of d20 myself, but I like Conan d20. Mainly, the combat is deadly and high level characters stay mortal. It is possible for level one soldier to kill a level 20 character with a critical strike leading in to failed massive damage roll. That is not simply possible in normal D&D. I really don't think the system breaks up at higher levels, because the characters still stay mortal.

System worries aside, I think the best way to find a reason to get in to playing Conan RPG is to read few of Howard's stories. The captivating charm of Hyboria seeps through them like black lotus smoke and DC of the Will save to resist is very high. They are very easy to get nowadays.

The Hour of the Dragon can be read at Wikisource:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Hour_of_the_Dragon

While the short stories can be found from Project Guttenberg (just scroll down to Howard, can't get direct link to him):
http://www.gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-a-m.html#letterH

A great shame that he died so young. Who knows what masterpieces he might have created after punching himself out from the pulp ghetto.
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Postby kintire » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:19 pm

Conan D20 is a relatively complicated and crunchy system.
Heh. Oh no its not... ahhh, Hero System, Rolemaster, Harn... character generation taking about three full sessions and assistance from someone with a maths degree, one combat round per four hours, entire books the size of a Conan sourcebook full of nothing but combat tables...

I'll show you "complicated and crunchy!"
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Postby shouit » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:35 pm

D20 does have a bit of a crunchiness to it, more so than some systems and less so than others, if I would put it on a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being less crunch, combat resolved by ROCK, PAPER, SCISSORS and 10 being really crunchy aka ROLEMASTER, it would rate about a 6, IMO.

The problem with D20, is it is easy to become bogged down with rules and such, which is one of my problems and why I choose Conan in the first place. Plus rules lawyers are a plenty in the system. Part of the reason, I went to other systems, I was tired of people arguing with me on the rules when I am DM and slowing the game to a crawl. But as always, time has a way of changing things.

The group I game with has litterly everything that WoTC has put out for DnD and I am not kidding. The current campaign that is finishing up, before I take over as DM, I am considered strange for only have a base class, Sorceror and one presitige class, Elemental Savant. The rest of the group has an average of 3 classes, most of them not even from the base book.

I was told that I would need to run d20 game of some sort, if I was going to take over as DM. So, I concided. I decided I wanted a version that would limit the group, so I was deciding between Iron Kingdom and Conan. I gave the players some chance to voice which one they wanted and one of them said, "Do Iron Kingdoms, it gives us more options." So I choose Conan. :lol:

Granted they are already trying to get me to allow classes from other D20 books and I am pushing back. I may allow an occasional feat or something like that, but I am trying to avoid presitige classes. Hence my thread about drunken master.
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Postby Kyorou » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:00 pm

kintire wrote:Heh. Oh no its not... ahhh, Hero System, Rolemaster, Harn... character generation taking about three full sessions and assistance from someone with a maths degree, one combat round per four hours, entire books the size of a Conan sourcebook full of nothing but combat tables...
Well, it's a relative thing. For, some people (including myself), "very complicated" means "a more than 5 pages game system".
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Postby Axerules » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:30 pm

shouit wrote:D20 does have a bit of a crunchiness to it, more so than some systems and less so than others, if I would put it on a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being less crunch, combat resolved by ROCK, PAPER, SCISSORS and 10 being really crunchy aka ROLEMASTER, it would rate about a 6, IMO.
I would rate it 8 for D&D and 7 for Conan D20, because of the heavy use of magic and magic items in the former.
Granted they are already trying to get me to allow classes from other D20 books and I am pushing back. I may allow an occasional feat or something like that, but I am trying to avoid presitige classes. Hence my thread about drunken master.
Beware and don't let your players decide. YOU are the boss. Try to have a good grasp of the system (and the particularities of Conan OGL) before inserting anything from other games.
If you have the intent to buy several Conan books, you will have already a lot of Feats to satisfy your "crunchy" players. And they will probably also appreciate the class variants in the three Hyboria F's.
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Clovenhoof
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Postby Clovenhoof » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:16 pm

7 or 8? You don't know any really crunchy games, mon ami. ^^

A good example for a bad example, as I mentioned, if The Dark Eye, esoecially the latest (fourth) edition. Character generation is almost impossible without computer assistance.
During the game, augmenting a character's Skills alone is a subject that fills around 4 full pages in the rulebook (compare that to the quarter page in Conan). Skills are sorted in 8 columns, depending on how difficult they are to increase. The skill list takes up 30 pages, including essential adventuring skills like farming or masonry, and splitting up combat prowess in no less than 27 (twenty-seven!) different skills by weapon. Many weapons have their very specific special rules, like what you can and cannot do with them. And that's just the basic rule box. If you buy the bestiary box, for instance, you'll find rules for horses covering everything down to scratching hooves. And don't let me get started on the magic system.

I advise against trying it out; TDE4 is about the most horrible system ever commercially published. But if you read it, you'd give D&D a "mild 6" and Conan probably a 5 or so. ;)

BTW those simulationist games like TDE or Rulemonster and so on are, in my humble opinion, not even "crunchy" anymore, but simply _stale_.
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Kyorou
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Postby Kyorou » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:30 pm

Clovenhoof wrote:TDE4 is about the most horrible system ever commercially published
Try "From Another Time, Another Land". It's awful...
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Postby warzen » Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:53 pm

shouit wrote:D20 does have a bit of a crunchiness to it, more so than some systems and less so than others, if I would put it on a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being less crunch, combat resolved by ROCK, PAPER, SCISSORS and 10 being really crunchy aka ROLEMASTER, it would rate about a 6, IMO.
I would give Rolemaster a 4 as once your class is chosen, it's prettry straightforward (2nd edition). d20 and even Conan are worth a 10. This thread is a clear proof. :lol:

W.
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Postby shouit » Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:59 pm

warzen wrote: I would give Rolemaster a 4 as once your class is chosen, it's prettry straightforward (2nd edition). d20 and even Conan are worth a 10. This thread is a clear proof. :lol:
Any system where there is a roll for crossing the street in which if you fail badly enough, you could trip over and invisible turtle and die, is pretty crunchy.

As for the thread mentioned, anytime you get a set of rules/standards/etc together, someone will want to see how far they can push em.

PS - I know that last sentence sounds weird, but it worked out in my head!
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Postby Strom » Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:26 am

A little off -topic - but we are discussing different systems. has anyone picked up the Aces of Eights: Shattered Frontier RPG from Kenzer Co? I was interested in their poker chip based brawling system and if it could be ported easily into the Conan RPG? Brawling happens a lot in a Conan RPG and IMO could be improved. Maybe 2e covers non-lethal damage and brawling in more detail but currently I think it's too generic.
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Postby kintire » Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:43 am

And lets not forget Harn. Or Chivalry and Sorcery.

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Majestic7
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Postby Majestic7 » Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:55 am

I don't know, having tables for everything is sort of fun... but maybe it is just nostalgia speaking. Rolemaster was the first RPG for me. Talk about a light start... I actually played D&D (3rd Edition) first time in 2003 and it felt much more complicated to get in to.
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Postby Kyorou » Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:59 pm

Well, in FATAL, you have to calculate the depth and circumference of your character's rectum. I think it beats any other system on the line...
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Postby shouit » Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:05 pm

Kyorou wrote:Well, in FATAL, you have to calculate the depth and circumference of your character's rectum. I think it beats any other system on the line...
Never looked at that system, but if this line is true, we have a winner.
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Postby Roger » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:23 am

Some of the Conan pros are quite compelling; no alignment and weapons taking damage, for example. I'm still not sure what to make of the level advancement system. Probably the single bisggest pro is that it is a stand alone system, and we won't have to buy D&D 4e rules, and then 4.5e, and so on. Well, maybe...
Cons...no bards? Even without spells?
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Postby Ralph » Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:36 am

Roger wrote: Cons...no bards? Even without spells?
Bards without spells?
You need the perform skill, available in most d20 OGL games. :wink:
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Conan advantages

Postby MadDog » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:30 pm

One great think I like about Conan is that skills are actually meaningful. Without the crutch of the +5 backscratcher and other magic items, skills become much more meaningful. Instead of saving up your gold pieces for the next magic doohickey, you use them towards accomplishing character goals.

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