Trial Shadows Rules

Discuss Mongoose RPGs here, such as the OGL rulebooks, Jeremiah, Armageddon 2089 and Macho Women with Guns
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ShadowScout
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Postby ShadowScout » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:12 pm

Episode "Walkabout"...

The Minbari Warcruiser's three teeps try to jam the four ShadowShips that arrived to silence the WhiteStar.
One ShadowShip breaks free of the jamming from the Minbari Cruiser, and pursues the WS which flees, the other three are "held".
Sheridan's WhiteStar flees at flank speed, yet thze ShadowShip is gaining.
Then the G'Quan jumps in and starts firing at the ShadowShip, which mysteriously stops moving and does nothing in return.
The WhiteStar turns and engages the ShadowShip too, shortly thereafter it dies.
Sheridan talks with G'Kar.
Jump Point opens behind WhiteStar and a small League fleet arrives led by a Frazi.
The three leftover Shadows break free of the jamming and disengage.

Now... I think it was a bit too easy... remember what ShadowShips did to G'Quans before... even if the G'Quan had the advantage of surprise (and I wouldn't count on it, as ShadowShips clearly can see into hyperspace - review "Relevations"; the ShadowShip reacted and asumed firing position before the G'Quan had jumped out - BtW, Vorlons can hide themselves from at least casual detection, see "Interludes & Examinations" for them surprising some Shadows, and "The Summoning" for an idea how - the vorlon fleet "hiding in hyperspace" that Ivanova & Marcus found...).

So even if the G'Quan had surprise, it might have hurt the ShadowShip a bit with it's initial blasts, but then the ShadowShip should/would have turned and cut the narn vessel apart... unless it couldn't.
And the fact that the ShadowShip stopped moving as soon as the G'Quan hit it with it's lasers made me suspect G'Kar might have put a league teep on board too, just in case Garibaldi was right with his theory.

And more teeps present on the league reinforcements would also explain why the other ShadowShips ran after they broke free from the Minbari teeps, instead of taking out their Sharlin before the telepaths could rest and jam them again (remember how much it tired Lyta to stop a shady shippie)...

Of course that's all just speculation, but it does make sense, doesn't it?

Aso for ShadowShips dying in "Shadow Dancing"... the only one which dies too easily is the Scout (and it may heve been built with less defenses and more sensors, to explain that), for all other ships we have no idea how many shots they had to eat before we got to see their "dying scene" on the screen.
ShadowScout
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DKeith2011
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Postby DKeith2011 » Sun Oct 05, 2003 5:50 pm

ShadowScout wrote:Then the G'Quan jumps in and starts firing at the ShadowShip, which mysteriously stops moving and does nothing in return.
There was a playtest rule in B5 Wars that explained that situation.

Anytime a Shadow ship was hit with a sustained (a weapon firing mode that allows a weapon to continually hit a target over several turns) attack it would be incapable of taking any other action due to the pain and effort of trying to absorb and disperse that much incoming energy.

It never made it into the regular rules, it proved too hard to balance.
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ShadowScout
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Postby ShadowScout » Sun Oct 05, 2003 6:36 pm

DKeith2011 wrote:There was a playtest rule in B5 Wars that explained that situation.

Anytime a Shadow ship was hit with a sustained (a weapon firing mode that allows a weapon to continually hit a target over several turns) attack it would be incapable of taking any other action due to the pain and effort of trying to absorb and disperse that much incoming energy.

It never made it into the regular rules, it proved too hard to balance.
And also incorrect - watch "Shadow Dancing", there we see both ShadowShips hit and "stunned" and we also see drazi ships hitting them with their yellow nose beams (Particle Cutters) and the ShadowShip fights on.
On the other hand... such a rule Would be nice... as then those high-tech sustained weapons do gain a bit more punch against shadows (currently these raking guns are about the worst gun to hit a shadow with, while low-techy plasma fire can really hurt a ShadowShip in B5W...) - just say it depends on the shadow pilot/CPU if and how much a ShadowShip is stunned by a sustained attack - let the CPU make a "pain roll" and say those who were stunned just failed it, while the tough ships keep kicking...

I still think the best explenation would be telepaths on board those G'Quan or other ships to account for the "stunning" effect. Otherwise those ShadowShips become too easily killed... and they're supposed to be the space-going equivalent of a fantasy Dragon, not just another Orc...
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"True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between light and dark..." - inscription on Z'ha'dum
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frobisher
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Postby frobisher » Sun Oct 05, 2003 10:50 pm

ShadowScout wrote:Dunno about "Shadow Dancing", but it was only Two Shadows that went to tear apart Kosh in "Interludes & Examinations". Watch the scene - Morden opens the door to Kosh's quarters, Kosh looks at him, two Shadows appear and go for the Vorlon
Misremembered the episode title this happened in - doh!

However, I've just rewatched my VHS copy of the episode and I'm right :)

Not all the Shadows phase in at once (the two you're remembering appear first (one on Morden's left (our right) first and one on his right)) but then a third and then a fourth start phasing in behind the left most one, and directly infront of Morden but are not fully phased in when the scene cuts.

It should also be noted, that when Morden comes aboard the station, he's talking to three (not his former two) Shadows just before the titles start.

The fourth directly in front of Morden might not actually be a Shadow but a trick of the light (it's the one I'm unsure of) and three would exactly tally with the pre title sequence.

At the very least, it means the Shadows need a three to one advantage in physical combat vs a Vorlon.
ShadowScout wrote:(though I wonder why Morden had to open the door at all, since he stood in the doorway the whole time, not letting any physical being or shadow-size through, while the shadows appeared before him anyway... well, maybe they wanted him as witness or somehting...)
I think you very much have to take that in the vein of Magical Wards and Protective Circles (but obviously not literally that) - you know, a demon can be kept in our out of a protective circle, which is "merely" a chalked ring, yet any mortal could scrub out a bit of the circle with their feet accidentally and let the demon in/out.

The Shadows could not breach the boundary (and Kosh's protective measures against creatures of the Shadows Phased disposition) of the room themselves, but they had a minion who could do so using more mundane means (picking the lock, opening the door and hence causing an air gap in the field).
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Postby KamokaziUK » Mon Oct 06, 2003 12:32 am

Kosh KNEW he was going to be punished for breaching their little code of conduct with the shadows dont forget.

And anyway..i think we lost the plot a little. The thread was supposed to be about the TRIAL shadow rules. We going a little off track here.

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