Icarus

Discuss Mongoose RPGs here, such as the OGL rulebooks, Jeremiah, Armageddon 2089 and Macho Women with Guns
Gabriel_Luna
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:09 am

Icarus

Postby Gabriel_Luna » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:31 pm

Does anyone happen to know what class of ship the Icarus was? I'm looking in the books and can't seem to find a generally configured long range research vessel that isn't an Explorer...
"Why not," said Ford, "go mad?"
Hellhawk
Stoat
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:57 am
Location: Mainz, Germany

Postby Hellhawk » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:58 pm

I've found something here - no idea how canoical this is.

I've also found unofficial ship plans here.

Rainer
Do not meddle in the affairs of linguists, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
Kizarvexis
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:40 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Postby Kizarvexis » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:33 pm

Hellhawk wrote:I've found something here - no idea how canoical this is.

I've also found unofficial ship plans here.

Rainer
Other than the picture, it is not canonical at all. B5Tech is a nice enough site, but a lot of it is fan made.

Kizarvexis
"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll

B5 RPG
User avatar
ShadowScout
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:48 am
Location: Matzen, AUSTRIA

Postby ShadowScout » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:54 pm

Unfortunately the IPX supplement also does nothing to clear up the Icarus question.
It has several IPX ships, none of which match the Icarus...

What ships I sense you cry?
OK...

Amber-class Surveyor - a shuttle-sized small prospecting craft, with atmospheric capability. Would be a good canditate for the Icarus if it was twice as big...

Argo-class Operations Vessel - IPX version of a "budget Explorer". Hyperion-sized with rotating section and jump engine.

Fiennes-class Recon Vessel - looks much like a slightly redesigned (less engine power) Arbiter.

Henry-class Long Range Surveyor - an old redesigned freighter without jump engine or atmospheric capability.

The Icarus would be a small (about Hermes-sized) atmospheric-capable ships with little in the way of engines or weapons, but lots of cargo space (it was supposed to sustain an expedition to a vary far-off world after all)
ShadowScout
Roman A. Perner

"True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between light and dark..." - inscription on Z'ha'dum
User avatar
Shadow Queen
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4973
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: Frome, Somerset, UK
Contact:

Postby Shadow Queen » Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:14 pm

id go for the one page 140 of ships of the Galaxy
“What do you hear?”
“Nothing but the rain,”
“Then grab your gun and bring in the cat,”

All painting Work on my photobucket is copywrite Derina Ramsey please ask if you wish to use.
Gabriel_Luna
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:09 am

Postby Gabriel_Luna » Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:59 pm

Actually, this is all good news to me. My PCs are going to get involved in ship design at IPX somewhere in 2253. It's unimportant, but it'd amuse me if they were the ones who designed the prototype that the Icarus was based off of. And since both the prototype (the PC's ship) and the first run production model (Icarus) had horrible horrible things happen to them, IPX scrapped the whole line and went back to the drawing board, hence there is no need for official stats. Excellent...

Oh, and thanks for the little IPX teaser, ShadowScout. I dig it.

And, finally, I'd call the Icarus Large, not small. Didn't Sheridan say that 100something people died on board, when interrogating Morden? Still atmosphere capable, recycling life support add on, and lots of cargo space, though, I agree on that.
"Why not," said Ford, "go mad?"
Kizarvexis
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:40 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Postby Kizarvexis » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:08 pm

Gabriel_Luna wrote:And, finally, I'd call the Icarus Large, not small. Didn't Sheridan say that 100something people died on board, when interrogating Morden? Still atmosphere capable, recycling life support add on, and lots of cargo space, though, I agree on that.
Sheridan said that 139 people died on the Icarus. Jms mentioned, before the series was aired, that the shuttles for B5 were as large as a 737, IIRC. Of course there would be less room on a B5 shuttle for crew and passengers than a modern day airliner, due to life support and fuel. But for the Icarus to hold 139 people and equipment, it doesn't need to be as big as a capital ship.

Kizarvexis
"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll

B5 RPG
Gabriel_Luna
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:09 am

Postby Gabriel_Luna » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:16 pm

True, but then a Large size vessel can dock inside Babylon 5...either or, really. The images Kosh has of the Icarus on Za'ha'dum certainly make it look pretty tiny. But then the Far Star in Ragged Edge is Large size too, and that's not a terribly big ship.

Either way, I'm getting good info on the Icarus. Thanks so far.
"Why not," said Ford, "go mad?"
Hellhawk
Stoat
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:57 am
Location: Mainz, Germany

Postby Hellhawk » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:56 pm

I just checked the novel The Shadow Within. It doesn't say much, except mentioning the crew and scentific staff complement of 130, cramped quarters, and a rather substantial amount of heavy equipment and very sophisticated lab equipment. The ship is docked in the central landing bay of Station Prime - it can't be that large, then.

Rainer
Do not meddle in the affairs of linguists, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
User avatar
frobisher
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2046
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:41 pm
Location: Glenfarg, SCOTLAND

Postby frobisher » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:09 pm

Hellhawk wrote:I just checked the novel The Shadow Within. It doesn't say much, except mentioning the crew and scentific staff complement of 130, cramped quarters, and a rather substantial amount of heavy equipment and very sophisticated lab equipment. The ship is docked in the central landing bay of Station Prime - it can't be that large, then.
If you check the archive footage Sheriden reviews on the Icarus, you see it depart (this is departing Station Prime), apparently, from the central hanger of a EA Orion type starbase. You'll also note that this gives one of the glaring continuity errors of "The Shadow Within". Station Prime is an EA facility (the primary departure hub around Earth apparently, according to jms...), not in orbit of Centauri Prime (but you can see why the mistake was made...).
Paddy Sinclair

Us Yellowbeards are never more dangerous than when we're dead...
User avatar
Reborn
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2005
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: Selly Oak, Birmingham
Contact:

Postby Reborn » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:30 pm

I would suggest buying "The Rim" which comes out in February. There's a picture containing two of them and an explorer on the front.
User avatar
ShadowScout
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:48 am
Location: Matzen, AUSTRIA

Postby ShadowScout » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:15 pm

id go for the one page 140 of ships of the Galaxy
And you'd be wrong.
The "Long Range Survey Ship" has no atmospheric capability (which the Icarus had, seeing how it landed at Alpha Omega Three), yet a gravitic engine (which the Icarus didn't, having EA-style fusion engines)

The LRSS is most likely the ship G`Kar travelled in after S-5 (and it's shuttle was the thing he boarded with Lyta)
And, finally, I'd call the Icarus Large, not small. Didn't Sheridan say that 100something people died on board, when interrogating Morden? Still atmosphere capable, recycling life support add on, and lots of cargo space, though, I agree on that.
Well, I was speaking in absolute B5 spacecraft size terms - and there the Icarus can't have been more then 150-250 meters or so in length; that'd be Hermes-sized or so. Rather small compared to other B5 ships...
...however "Medium Spacecraft" in B5RPG ship construction terms, perhaps even a smallish "Large Spacecraft".
Problem is, none of the ships in the IPX supplemetn fit. BtW, since you mention crew size...
Amber-class Surveyor - 4
Argo-class Operations Vessel - 120
Fiennes-class Recon Vessel - 2
Henry-class Long Range Surveyor - 24

Size-wise the "Large Spacecraft" Henry is the best bet (with some passengers in the carge space, and maybe the pulse cannon traded for more crew space - and in any case, the B5RPG ship contruction rules assume long-term operation - a ship can load a lot more then it's crew spaces would indicate if it's for a shorter term...), but as I wrote, it's non-atmospheric. Besides, the Icarus did not looks like a redesigned freighter.

Most likely (yup, constructing excused for Mongoose) the Icarus is not featured in IPX because... aeh... yes, it is not an IPX exclusive design, but a common commercial ship also used for prospectors and civilian treasure hunters...

And hopefully we'll see stats for it in "The Rim" (and even more hopefully, eventually even a ministure for it some day).

Of course, Mongoose designers did kinda drop the ball here, as the IPX supplement would have been THE place for the Icarus. And even better then ship stats would have been nicely done (Think S&P-15 "lightbringer") Icarus deck plans (as a lot of an IPX adventure could be set on such a spaceship). Whoever at mongoose hall feels responsible for this oversight ought to stand in a corner in shame for not thinking of it! :wink: :P

That is a point I already noticed with some other ships - we have deck plans for big cruisers, which are not that important, but few for ships most usable for your average player character... think "Firelfy", those small transports and similar sized corvettes would be the best bet for player character vessels (no matter if they'd be privately owned freighters complete with souped-up engines and smuggling compartments onter the main corridor deck, or IA-supplied Liandra-style patrol boats for a ranger team)

Read that, Mongoose guys!?!
Think about a supplement with really good deck plans (not just black and white blueprints, but really nice-looking plans like the S&P-15 Lightbringer, or the lifeboat/shuttle in "The Cold Equations" - thing that could be enlarged with a color copy machine and used as map for tactical miniature battles) for all the major small ships? (because those ships are most likely to either find their way into PC's possession, or be the location of a battle the PC's have to fight as the board one)
- Icarus
- shuttles for all races
- "green ship" / "7tango7" / "Skylark" / "Lightbriger" style Civilian Trader
- Narn and centauri cargo ships
- all the small ships we see floating around B5 so often (especilly in S-1)
- EA Tethys, Narn Sho'Kos, Centauri Haven, Minbari/IA Nolo'Tar (Liandra!) and similar sizes patrol boats...
- Blue Star
- Hermes
- Condor
- Corporate Freighter & Tanker
- Orinthar Commercial Transport
- Patrol Boat
- Soul Hunter Transport
- Technomaghe Pinnace
- Drakh Raider
- Minbari Passenger Liner
- Amber-class Surveyor
- Fiennes-class Recon Vessel
- the "Far Star" and other centauri liners of similar make (and the crude green line drawing is simply insufficient IMO)
ShadowScout
Roman A. Perner

"True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between light and dark..." - inscription on Z'ha'dum
Gabriel_Luna
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:09 am

Postby Gabriel_Luna » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:05 pm

"smallish 'Large Spacecraft'" is what I had in mind, yep. I was using the technical game term meaning of large there, sorry if that wasn't clear.

It is a pity it's not listed in the IPX book...guess I'll just have to muddle through and see what the group comes up with.
"Why not," said Ford, "go mad?"
Mongoose Gar
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:06 pm
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Postby Mongoose Gar » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:09 pm

*blinks*

Ok, that's...weird. I haven't seen the printed IPX book yet, but I'm looking at my manuscript here:

Herodotus-class Expedition Base
The Herodotus is IPX’s own design, manufactured by Mitchell-Hyundyne under licence from the company. The ill-fated Icarus was one of these ships (although she had much of her hold converted to crew quarters). The Herodotus is designed to function as a mobile base, deploying satellites, landing on a planet, and carrying considerable amounts of cargo and vehicles.

No expense was spared when it came to the sensor array, and the Herodotus is often refitted with an expanded science lab for missions when fewer heavy vehicles are required. On board, conditions are cramped but relatively comfortable; each crew member has a small cabin, and the common areas on board are well-designed and pleasant to work in. The design’s chief weakness is its lack of shuttle space and relatively light armament for its size – fortunately, the Herodotus is normally escorted to its destination by a jump-capable ship, which offers protection from raiders and other hostile forces.

Herodotus-class Expedition Base
Medium Spacecraft
Defence Value: 11 (+0 size, +1 Handling); Armour: 15; Handling: +1; Sensors: + 7; Stealth: 7; Stress: 16;
Features: Atmosphere Capable, Automatic Refreshing Filters, Fusion Engine
Crew: Civilian Trained (+2 BAB, +4 Training); 1 Pilot, 12 Passengers
Structural Spaces: 20 (Engine 2, Control 2, Crew 3, Cargo 8, Hangar 4, Weapons 1)
Fore Arc Weapons
Particle Repeater (Close, Offence 6, 1 weapon spaces)

(and in retrospect, I'd up that to 2 pilots, 40 passengers, and handwave a bit about crew sizes).
Gabriel_Luna
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:09 am

Postby Gabriel_Luna » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:27 pm

That's...uncanny. That's almost exactly the basic design I came up with as IPX's base model. (Though I plan to let the PCs add to it with their own opinions and influence checks so they can make their prototype their own...) Large size, to give them room to expand, but other than that...cool.

Thanks for the stats. I hope they made it to the final book, but if they haven't, these will do the trick, I'm sure.
"Why not," said Ford, "go mad?"
Aramanthus
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:38 pm
Location: Racine
Contact:

Postby Aramanthus » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:55 pm

Canon, this is the wrong place for canon Babylon 5 stuff. Most of the 2nd edition stuff is so far from canon it's not funny.
Londo to Vir: "What do you want, you moon-faced assassin of joy?"
Mage Ash
Stoat
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:53 pm

Postby Mage Ash » Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:24 am

Aramanthus wrote:Canon, this is the wrong place for canon Babylon 5 stuff. Most of the 2nd edition stuff is so far from canon it's not funny.
I don't really want to be the one that causes this thread to go off topic, but I gotta ask. What stuff is far from canon?
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. It is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we becomes victims of the darkness." --Justice William O. Douglas
Gabriel_Luna
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:09 am

Postby Gabriel_Luna » Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:55 am

We're done here...I got stats for the Icarus, that's all I needed. You may derail the topic at will.
"Why not," said Ford, "go mad?"
User avatar
ShadowScout
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:48 am
Location: Matzen, AUSTRIA

Postby ShadowScout » Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:52 am

Ok, that's...weird. I haven't seen the printed IPX book yet, but I'm looking at my manuscript here:
Herodotus-class Expedition Base...
-snip-
Oh... yeees, my fault. Overread that one hidden in the corner and next page to the other ships... (that'll tech me to go through a supplement too quickly - but then I just got it and haven't yet had the time to read through it properly)
Mea culpa.
I apologize for the inconvinience.
I'll be good now...
:wink:

However, my point about deck plans remains - see above.
ShadowScout
Roman A. Perner

"True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between light and dark..." - inscription on Z'ha'dum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests