Things We Like

Discuss Mongoose RPGs here, such as the OGL rulebooks, Jeremiah, Armageddon 2089 and Macho Women with Guns
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Trodax
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Postby Trodax » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:20 am

Mongoose Gar wrote:I'm contemplating giving each style of Sorcery its own unique defensive ability. Hypnotism would get a terror check effect, Prestiwhatsit gets a "send everyone around me flying" and so forth. Basically, move away from the 'all sorcerers are walking bombs' situation we have currently.

This would probably be in addition to a stricter rule on when a Defensive Blast can be used.
Cool, I like it. Would that mean that a master of many styles could choose which defense to invoke?
Mongoose Gar wrote:Skill merging (Spot+Listen into Notice, Hide+Move Silently into Stealth etc) is a possibility, but it's not a certainty. It was an obvious move for Babylon 5, but a higher level of detail probably suits Conan better. We shall see.
This idea I really like. It just feels slicker and cleaner with these merges.
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Postby Daz » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:07 am

In my ideal fantasy RPG, meleers would be able to whipe the floor with casters in a fair fight while casters would have abilities at their disposal to avoid/rig otherwise fair rights.

The Conan d20 magic system comes much closer to this ideal than other game systems I've seen (notably D&D).
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Postby kintire » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:10 am

Sneak Attack will probably have its dice size changed based on context - you get D8s when stabbing someone who is surprised, D6s for attacking a blinded foe, D4s when you've just got someone flanked etc.
I'm not convinced by this: I don't see the Sneak Attacking classes as particularly powerful. If this went in I'd want to see 2h weapon damage seriously reigned in as well, otherwise being a thief will become rather dull.
Skill merging (Spot+Listen into Notice, Hide+Move Silently into Stealth etc) is a possibility, but it's not a certainty. It was an obvious move for Babylon 5, but a higher level of detail probably suits Conan better. We shall see.
Its another Thief-nerf. Their main schtick is more skill points: If you make it half as expensive in skill points to become an expert sneaker, and half as expensive to become an expert scout, you are cutting into two of their areas of strength quite seriously.
Soldiers will probably get some sort of organisational power letting them rally other classes into a formation.
This, on the other hand, is a brilliant idea. Soldiers really need this sort of thing; there has to be some advantage to organised fighting or why is everyone doing it? I really like the Sorcery defenses idea too.
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Postby slaughterj » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:06 pm

Mongoose Gar wrote:Skill merging (Spot+Listen into Notice, Hide+Move Silently into Stealth etc) is a possibility, but it's not a certainty. It was an obvious move for Babylon 5, but a higher level of detail probably suits Conan better. We shall see.
This is something I prefer in a game as well. You can see a couple of good examples in Iron Heroes and in the Mutants and Masterminds Masterminds Manual, each having taken a slightly different route to it.
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Postby Sutek » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:15 pm

Mongoose Gar wrote:Skill merging (Spot+Listen into Notice, Hide+Move Silently into Stealth etc) is a possibility, but it's not a certainty. It was an obvious move for Babylon 5, but a higher level of detail probably suits Conan better.
I think it's not higher detail, but, as said earlier, a question of skillpoints versus places to put those points. Plus, there's plenty of times that making a decision ot Move Silently where Hiding isn't necessary, or vice versa, come up in my games. They may hide well, but make too much noise, etc. I'd also say that there are plenty of instances where being quiet has nothing to do with movement.

I vote keep them separate...as much as my vote counts here anyway. :)
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Postby quigs » Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:27 pm

I love the Conan setting. The Road of Kings was a great book especially. I like the ideas that the rules put forward, but I just don't really like how they were implemented.

Most if not all of the rules are easy enough to find in the PHB and Unearthed Arcana though, so running the game with regular D&D rules and some additions from Unearthed Arcana is another great way to enjoy Conan.
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Postby DaveNC » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:11 pm

What I love:
-The game really captures the feel of REH's books
-Armor DR vs AC
-The more mature feel to the game
-The Sourcebooks and products are great, with more to come
-I don't think it has been mentioned yet (sorry if I missed it), but the Mongoose Conan Forum (yes, this one) is fantastic. The posts are almost all respectful, intelligent, and most importantly, helpful. I've gotten so many ideas, tips, storylines, and rules clarification from this site it's amazing. One of the best online communities around, IMHO.
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Foxworthy
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Postby Foxworthy » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:03 pm

I love this game. I may not get to play it or run it as often as I like (Since I'm running my players though the Drow War and the other GM is running Sidewinder: Recoiled) but still I sit here and read and post on these boards with almost fanatical attention.

Here's why...

Before I heard abut the Conan RPG I was rather uninterested in RPGs. I was burnt out on playing WoD and AD&D and felt burnt by 3.0 and the change to 3.5. (God I hate all those unneeded books)

Then I noticed apost on RPG.net about Conan and found out it had all the rules in one book. So I ordered it and read it and fell in love.

I love Armor as DR. I love Parry and Dodge. I love the fact that hit points are smaller and that massive dmage is far easier. I like the d20 rule set as it's easy and smooth for me. It's complicated but not overly so.

I like combat maneuvers as they are a nice way to break the standard d20 rules in a fun and light way. I like the way the classes are set up and I like the little bonuses the races give.

I like the subtle diffrences between d20's standard feats and Conan. Over all it one of my favorite systems.

Then you add ona setting that is beyond awesome and you can see why I love the game.

Now I'd like to comment about a few of the things Mongoose Gar said.

I like the first idea you had about refining defensive blast but please drop the fireball effect. If you need to keep it in the system please make it a spell type ability since even restricted it doens't seem fitting.

I also like the way skills are now. I don't like generic Notice and Stealth rolls. I like the way the system is now as it's easy to mimic characters who are better at seeing things then hearing and what not. While the change wouldn't kill me it would be rather sad to see.

Thank you for reading the boards and checking out our input. Though if you have space maybe a diffent craft system would be neat. I'm not sure if you can lift the one from Black Company that people like or the one from OGL Barbarian which I like but the regular craft rules are rather bland.
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Postby Netherek » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:30 pm

I have to say I dig the lack of CR's, no more concern for the "balanced" encounter and predictable outcomes.

Love the Combat rules with Parry/Dodge and the Armour as DR with penetrating/finesse styles, shoot I just love it all.

I like the how the races were design, and the classes are great. The multi-classing rules are much better than d20. Class variants rock. The prestige class are great, there aren't too many and really fill a place in the world, not the munchkin silly non-sense of WotC designs!

I like the Terrain and survival options in Fiercest, they should be put in the new edition. Vincent you rock!

Thank you Mongoose for capturing the Conan Saga so well, and on top of that you designed the best d20/OGL if not best RPG of all time! Kudos. :D

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Postby sbarrie » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:59 pm

Mongoose Gar wrote:Sneak Attack will probably have its dice size changed based on context - you get D8s when stabbing someone who is surprised, D6s for attacking a blinded foe, D4s when you've just got someone flanked etc.
I like this a lot.
Reputation will be simplified a bit.
This too. I've pretty much just played Reputation by ear. The current version has crunchy bits in all the wrong spots.
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sbarrie
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Postby sbarrie » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:07 pm

I like the free-form rules for experience and balancing encounters in the current edition of Conan. I'm an experienced GM, I don't need my hand held.

The armour piercing rules in Conan are the best I've ever seen.

Finesse is great. Not relying on feats for finesse or two weapon fighting is wonderful.

Sorcery is very good, and matches the source material, but I'd rather there were a bit more flexibility (ie less "you can't do that, you don't have that exact spell").

Combat maneuvers in general are an excellent way to add variety to every character. That's why I've added so many of my own. :)
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Postby argo » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:08 am

Oh, so many many things I like about this game...

Love the tweaks to combat: class DV, armor as DR, dodge/parry and finnesse/AP, multiple attacker bonus, REF save for Init, etc. Adds whole new levels of strategy and flexibility to the system.

Love the philosophy of "anybody can do it". Everybody can finnesse attack, fight on the run, most people have TWF for free and even those who don't have reduced penalties. There are other similar tweaks but the point is this game opens up many more options and therefore encourages players to try wacky stuff that they may not have optimized their character for.

Love the tweaks to damage and the lower massive damage threshold. Makes the game "gritty" but still preserves the "heroic" quality of HP (as opposed to systems that track damage on a scale). Likewise capping HP at 10 HD.

Love that bonus skill points from Int can be spent on any skill. One small tweak but it solves so many problems.

Love Fate Points.

Love the magic system. Very flavorfull, mechanically solid and easy to expand on.

Love the multiclassing rules. A bonus for single classing instead of a penalty for multiclassing. Brilliant!

Like the concept of combat manuvers but wish there were more of them, espically for low level characters.

Like Reputation but the current system is klunky.

Like the races, very flavorfull, but the conditional bonuses can be a pain to figure out. Don't think I would change this though.

And beyond the mechanics I absoluetly love the high production values that the line has mantained (first edition typos notwithstanding). The quality of the research and writting and the respect for the source material (while still willing to dip into pastiche now and then) is exceptional.

Later.
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Postby argo » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:16 am

Mongoose Gar wrote: Sneak Attack will probably have its dice size changed based on context - you get D8s when stabbing someone who is surprised, D6s for attacking a blinded foe, D4s when you've just got someone flanked etc.
Boo on this. IME sneak attack is balanced by the fact that thieves have a glass jaw. Deadly assasins who go down easy in a stand up fight.

Soldiers will probably get some sort of organisational power letting them rally other classes into a formation.
Wow... wish I'd thought of that.
I'm contemplating giving each style of Sorcery its own unique defensive ability. Hypnotism would get a terror check effect, Prestiwhatsit gets a "send everyone around me flying" and so forth. Basically, move away from the 'all sorcerers are walking bombs' situation we have currently.
Sounds delicious
This would probably be in addition to a stricter rule on when a Defensive Blast can be used.
I just hope that by "stricter rules" you do not mean "only when the GM tells you its OK to use DB" which is something that has often been suggested on the boards .

I'm looking forward to 2nd edition! Later.
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... except in Califorina.


Remember: guns don't kill people, monkeys with guns kill people! /^o^;
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Postby Lord Jolly the Scribe » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:30 am

So much love in one place.

And so many great ideas too.

Also, lots of anit-DnDers. i like.

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Postby jadrax » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:29 am

Mongoose Gar wrote: Skill merging (Spot+Listen into Notice, Hide+Move Silently into Stealth etc) is a possibility, but it's not a certainty. It was an obvious move for Babylon 5, but a higher level of detail probably suits Conan better. We shall see.
I really think those skills are better of merged, certainly it works fantastically in Lone Wolf.
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Postby Majestic7 » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:14 pm

I'm fan of REH, so the thing I like most is the world in itself. It has been converted well in to a game. I'm not fan of d20, so it is a praise in itself to the game that I've bought it even though it uses d20 as a base for its system.

What comes to the game mechanics, I like especially:
- Massive damage, keeps characters mortal even on high levels.
- Multiple attackers rule, helps angry mobs to bring down high level characters
- Armor giving DR instead of making the person harder to hit
- Corruption and the general flavor of sorcery, though it needs a bit tweaking here and there

I certainly hope Mongoose will try to keep the system as simple as possible. Adding different dice for different kinds of sneak attack sounds like a bad direction, better keep things as simple as possible. Combat rounds should be fast both IRL and in the game world.
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Postby slaughterj » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:07 pm

sbarrie wrote:
Reputation will be simplified a bit.
This too. I've pretty much just played Reputation by ear. The current version has crunchy bits in all the wrong spots.
Yep, you have to have a lot for it to even come into play, especially as PCs tend to travel around a lot and the penalty that incurs on its effectiveness. As it stands now, I keep track of the amount for my PCs, but have yet to use it.
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Postby Ichabod » Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:27 am

Funny, my views aren't that different.

D&D spawned its own fantasy genre. But, it does a crummy job simulating any prior genres - high fantasy, sword and sorcery, et al. Can never shake the feeling when playing D&D that it's just a game.

Conan does a pretty solid job of working with painful D20 mechanics to capture a sword and sorcery feel. For instance, rather than characters being defined by their crap (especially a problem in pre-D20 D&D versions), Conan character competence is largely internal. While it's common in fantasy for characters to have some uber magic item, it's more a matter of having it because the character is special not the character being special because the character owns it.

As an example, I like how much attributes bump - I like the idea that PCs are just better than normal people and high attributes reflect that.

Similarly, skills seem to matter a great more in Conan due to the lack of reliance on magic and a lack of reliance on "just kill it" to solve problems. I like how classes on average do a lot better with skill ranks than D&D classes; however, I lament that most of the classes don't get even more ranks per level so that they have more areas of competence.

I may not care anything about the character of Conan, but I like the setting and I think the game has done a good job of laying out that setting. Even if you haven't read the stories, it's possible to relate to the different cultures of man, in turn, making it easier to relate to this game. D&D, meanwhile, taught me to hate elves and dwarves in games because they took iconic races and turned them into silly game options.

Not just for the above reason, but Conan feels pretty well grounded while at the same time having a fantasy element. This likely also has something to do with a more flavorful magic system than the highly gamey D&D one.

I like the concept of reputation. Again, it moves the emphasis away from the acquisition of stuff, which I don't find having relevance to greatness, to characters doing things that lead to greatness. But, the execution blows; we've hardly ever used the mechanic and can't even keep straight what the number should be for a given situation. It can be a way to reward players for in game play, which helps deemphasize such out of game concerns as "when do I level up next?".

There's something to the concept of allegiances, but I find them even more poorly executed than rep. There should be a lot more ways that allegiances impact mechanics in meaningful ways if someone is going to bother with tracking them at all, otherwise they are just flavor that don't really need any mechanical component.
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Postby thulsa » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:24 am

Majestic7 wrote: - Multiple attackers rule, helps angry mobs to bring down high level characters
I like this too, however, I don't like the way it is implemented. By giving an incremental +1 bonus to each character "in the same round", the rules imply that there is a discrete concept of rounds, when in fact combat is cyclic. With the current rule, how many bonuses you gain is dependent on your sequence number, and then the bonus is "reset" for the next round. This does not really make any sense.

I have a house rule that simply grants a +1 bonus for each ally that threatens the creature you attack. For example, if four guys surround a single creature, each of them gain a +3 bonus on their attacks. This makes even low-level mooks quite effective. Note that the house rule applies to both NPCs and PCs.

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Trodax
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Postby Trodax » Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:11 pm

thulsa wrote:I like this too, however, I don't like the way it is implemented. By giving an incremental +1 bonus to each character "in the same round", the rules imply that there is a discrete concept of rounds, when in fact combat is cyclic. With the current rule, how many bonuses you gain is dependent on your sequence number, and then the bonus is "reset" for the next round. This does not really make any sense.
I very much agree with you on this. Everything else in d20 combat is cyclical, so this rule sort of sticks out (well, to be fair, AoO also operate on a "per turn" basis, but still...). As you say, it also makes it easier to hit for characters with low initiative, which feels strange. Plus, it adds a little bit of extra bookkeeping since you need to remember who attacked who, which is never a good thing.
thulsa wrote:I have a house rule that simply grants a +1 bonus for each ally that threatens the creature you attack. For example, if four guys surround a single creature, each of them gain a +3 bonus on their attacks. This makes even low-level mooks quite effective. Note that the house rule applies to both NPCs and PCs.
This is a much, much cleaner way of doing it; no bookkeeping needed. I've toyed with this idea myself, but haven't tried it. It does change things a bit, though, as it will make it easier to hit for everyone in cramped, chaotic combats with many participants. For example, you could have a situation with four Picts fighting four Cimmerians where they are basically squaring off 1-on-1, but where everyone gains hefty bonuses to hit. Things will get bloody faster, even though no side has a numerical advantage. However, that might not necessarily be unrealistic.

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