P13+

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Yrtalien
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P13+

Postby Yrtalien » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:56 pm

Have any of you ever run a game that included (either at the beginning or later) telepaths with a rating higher than P12? If so how did you run it? Was it simply the numerical value with which you figure success is larger or does being P13+ change you? Give you access to new abilities? Let you see deeper than ever before? Send your ranges through the roof?

I was considering offering someone who made it to such a touted lvl access to any written telepathic prestige class (Teek, Precog...) without any of the standard downsides... so the development of Telekinetic abilities could happen after creation and without that oh-so-negative insanity thing happening.

Opinions and experience appreciated :D


Hmmm, oh and a player is interested in trying a technomage but Im wondering about compatibility with the current system..... has anyone yet tried to mesh the 1st ed Technomages with the 2nd ed system? Are the differences so minor as to be ignored or easily dealt with? If you encountered or preconcieve of any problems could you share them with me (It's been a while since I've read the book so I'm not pulling up any factlets right now)?

LOL, hmmm again thank you all :o
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Postby lastbesthope » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:27 pm

I'm sure someone on the forums has a P13+ Minbari character but I can't remember who, I think they used the small bone crest thing to do it, though I could be wrong.

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Postby Shadow Queen » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:53 pm

Vorlon enhancement i think
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Postby thedarkelf007 » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:44 am

There is a Minbari subrace (Minbari Handbook) that can have enhancements to the P Rating, but then I believe the 1st ed also has the non human races with telepaths able to achieve P15...

I am not sure of the bonuses, but it is worth a look.
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Postby EricRoss » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:50 am

lastbesthope wrote:I'm sure someone on the forums has a P13+ Minbari character but I can't remember who, I think they used the small bone crest thing to do it, though I could be wrong.

LBH
That was me. Ardenn started as a P-12, then took Small Crest at creation (+1 to P rating) and is Kira Zhe (allowing him to function at 2 P-ratings higher), at third level the write up (sorry folks, 1st edition) is as follows:

Ardenn
Level 3 Minbari [Kira Zhe] Telepath (P13 [P15])

Hit Points: 8 Initiative: 8 Speed: 30 DV: 13 DR: 0

Attacks: Melee: +3, Ranged: +4

Abilities: Str: 12, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 14, Wis: 12, Cha: 12

Saves: Fort: 2, Ref: 3, Will: 4, (Opponents DC to resist Telepathy: 19)

Skills: Computer Use (5), Concentration (5), Diplomacy (5), Knowledge (Religion) (6), Knowledge (Telepathy) (5), Profession (Priest) (2), Sense Motive (5), Telepathy (7)
Weapons: pistol

Feats & SQ: Accidental Scan, Combat Telepath, Improved Initiative, Mind Shield, Religious Caste (Knowledge - Telepathy), Sense Telepathy, Small Crest, Skill Focus (Knowledge-Religion), Surface Scan, Warning

Equipment: Religious Caste robes.
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Postby Perturbatio » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:07 pm

EricRoss wrote:
lastbesthope wrote:I'm sure someone on the forums has a P13+ Minbari character but I can't remember who, I think they used the small bone crest thing to do it, though I could be wrong.

LBH
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Postby EricRoss » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:14 am

You have to admit, even though the ability to function as a P15 (same P-rating as Kosh) mainly affects the DC to resist telepathy for his oppontents, if this character gets up in levels, and maybe even takes the Grand Telepath PrC it would be Besters worst nightmare.
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Postby scottmage » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:40 am

Of course this still does not answer the question. Are there any special abilities for P13+ like in the show?

Lyta controlled a whole room full of people (at least 52 that I was able to count by using slow-mo on DVD). She was also able to extend her senses through the air ducts and then send a message to Captain Lockley on how to get in using the air ducts. She was able to send her thoughts ahead to Zahadum while in the presence of Bester without him detecting it.

Using the Great Machine boosted Ivanova to the point where she could see all the way back to Earth in the Past no less.

Etc, etc, etc......
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Postby EricRoss » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:44 am

True, but for the most part those are 'One shot' plot elements that only Lyta and the Great Machine are capable of. One could consider letting a P-13+ Teep have access to one power from the Vorlon Telepathy chart in 'Light and Shadows' if you like, but I would make them really earn it.
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Postby scottmage » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:57 am

EricRoss wrote:True, but for the most part those are 'One shot' plot elements that only Lyta and the Great Machine are capable of. One could consider letting a P-13+ Teep have access to one power from the Vorlon Telepathy chart in 'Light and Shadows' if you like, but I would make them really earn it.
So what you are saying is there is no real purpose in attaining P-13+ level?

So you would give a P-13+ Angel Guise, Dreamwalk (which I don't have any problem with) or Soul Riding (which seems to happen in many Psi Fi shows :wink: i.e. Scanners)?

One of the reason why people game is Infinite Possiblities....without that, you could just go to your mundane job...and live your mundane life.....
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Postby thedarkelf007 » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:03 am

I'm sure you can borrow a few things from the psi experiment chart (I believe this is in the EA FB)...

Some of the things Jason Ironheart was capable of might be what you could expect from a P13+

Though I am sure I read some where that humans felt they were lacking having max psi of P12 where as the other major goverments has up to P15. I think this is a 1st Ed thing though.

Too many books, losts of little facts, I'm sure at least one of them is right ;-)
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Postby Shadow Queen » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:09 pm

scottmage wrote:
EricRoss wrote:True, but for the most part those are 'One shot' plot elements that only Lyta and the Great Machine are capable of. One could consider letting a P-13+ Teep have access to one power from the Vorlon Telepathy chart in 'Light and Shadows' if you like, but I would make them really earn it.
So what you are saying is there is no real purpose in attaining P-13+ level?

So you would give a P-13+ Angel Guise, Dreamwalk (which I don't have any problem with) or Soul Riding (which seems to happen in many Psi Fi shows :wink: i.e. Scanners)?

One of the reason why people game is Infinite Possiblities....without that, you could just go to your mundane job...and live your mundane life.....

No since they are Vorlon telepathic abilitys
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Postby EricRoss » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:35 am

scottmage wrote:So what you are saying is there is no real purpose in attaining P-13+ level?
not at all, the higher the P-rating the harder it is for other Teeps to make the will save. Which also could give a GM a carrot for the P-13+ characters, by allowing a P-13+ to double their Charisma bonus when determining opponents Will save DCs (triple if they have Mindshredder) could be a nice benifit.
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Postby scottmage » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:11 am

Shadow Queen wrote:
scottmage wrote:
EricRoss wrote:True, but for the most part those are 'One shot' plot elements that only Lyta and the Great Machine are capable of. One could consider letting a P-13+ Teep have access to one power from the Vorlon Telepathy chart in 'Light and Shadows' if you like, but I would make them really earn it.
So what you are saying is there is no real purpose in attaining P-13+ level?

So you would give a P-13+ Angel Guise, Dreamwalk (which I don't have any problem with) or Soul Riding (which seems to happen in many Psi Fi shows :wink: i.e. Scanners)?

One of the reason why people game is Infinite Possiblities....without that, you could just go to your mundane job...and live your mundane life.....

No since they are Vorlon telepathic abilitys
Ah but that is just what he was saying
EricRoss wrote:True, but for the most part those are 'One shot' plot elements that only Lyta and the Great Machine are capable of. One could consider letting a P-13+ Teep have access to one power from the Vorlon Telepathy chart in 'Light and Shadows' if you like, but I would make them really earn it.
And why not Angel Guise, Dreamwalkor Soul Riding?

Angel Guise = Hallucination only specific races see their versions of Angels.

Dreamwalk = Reality Fabrication that affects Dreams and requires that the victim is near collapse.

Soul Riding = Second Sight + Action Block that allows a portion of the users consciousness that acts like the Telepath would if he were there.
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Postby scottmage » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:22 am

EricRoss wrote:
scottmage wrote:So what you are saying is there is no real purpose in attaining P-13+ level?
not at all, the higher the P-rating the harder it is for other Teeps to make the will save. Which also could give a GM a carrot for the P-13+ characters, by allowing a P-13+ to double their Charisma bonus when determining opponents Will save DCs (triple if they have Mindshredder) could be a nice benifit.
In the game system a low Character level P-13 can be beaten by a high Character level P-5 and I demonstrated a while back.

Charisma Bonus....some of the most powerful Telepaths in the show have the Charisma of a dead person. They have fixed that in 3.5 D20 that Wisdom is the controlling Attribute for Telepathy.

I was hoping that they would fix Mindshredder since Dr. Franklin described it as something like "Complete breakdown of all the neurons in his brain". Not just Lethal Damage, probbly also Attribute Damage. If must be a Bad Ass ability since even Bester was given a warning.....
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Postby EricRoss » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:55 am

I have allways interpreted Mindshredder as being so lethal because if a teep uses a mental attack of some sort, the ability to have their Cha bonus doubled would be important and could lead to the injury or death of the victum.
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Postby CharlieMonster » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:37 pm

At the end of the day, a GM should think long and hard before allowing a P13+ character in the game, not for any rule/game balance, but because the show has always represented them as almost unheard of (Vorlons notwithstanding).

Even an epic story centring on the pivotal events of the "Third Age" of man only features 2 (maybe 3 we never really got a straight answer about Talia because of Andrea Thomson's departure) and each of those the product of somebody monkeying with their squishy grey bits). Okay at a pinch Ironheart's little mate, might of been a P13, but probably not.

I guess it is feasible for the odd over-powered Alien teep, but JMS never really suggested any of the younger races was any stronger than humans.

Anyways that's just my 2 credits
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Postby Alexb83 » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:45 pm

I think you can assume that Lyta was written back in to replace Talia. Everything that Lyta did (aside, I guess from her direct involvement with the Vorlons) in terms of plot movement, and involvement with the telepath war, could have been done instead by Talia.

As her teek ability and her ability to keep Bester out of her head proves, she was something more than a P12.
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Postby Hellhawk » Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:19 am

And Lyta's direct involvement with the Vorlons was written in to get her to the point where Talia had been brought already, without duplicating the process. Ironheart was mainly introduced to bring Talia to the level of telepathic ability that was needed to fight the Shadows.

With Andrea Thompson gone, JMS needed a different way to get a similar character to the same level. Plot-wise, Talia and Lyta are just two facets of the same character. Their development is the same, though: that of a P5 being manipulated by higher forces.

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Postby CharlieMonster » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:13 am

I've also just noticed that Abbut (the ViCaR in Deathwalker) claimed to be a P23, but to be fair I would take anything from that quarter with a pinch (or indeed 1 kilo bag) of Salt. :lol:
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