What Judge Dredd/Slaine Material would you like to see?

Discuss Mongoose RPGs here, such as the OGL rulebooks, Jeremiah, Armageddon 2089 and Macho Women with Guns

What Judge Dredd/Slaine Material would you like to see?

Poll ended at Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:39 pm

Starter Adventures
0
No votes
Source Books (World books and Locations)
9
82%
NPC Details
1
9%
Historical Books such as Apocalypse War
0
No votes
Epic Level Campaigns
0
No votes
Technology/Magic Books
1
9%
 
Total votes: 11
Dredd Times
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What Judge Dredd/Slaine Material would you like to see?

Postby Dredd Times » Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:39 pm

Hi,
Hope this works as I havent tried to post a poll before. Just a few ideas here to see what other board members would like to see come out for both Judge Dredd and Slaine.

Marc
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lawbabe

Poll

Postby lawbabe » Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:36 pm

The poll does not cover sourcebooks based in mega-city 1, or sourcebooks based on comic source material. I want to see more adaptations of comic stuff before bringing out all new material - don't run before you can walk! :D

I want to see cityblock generation guides and source material, making use of the meg-ways as campaign settings - the jdjc is doing something like that} and information on playing lots more character types from mc-1. A book covering sector landmarks would be cool for anybody basing their games in mc-1. I wont buy any citybooks, but will run to grab more mc-1 guides, its the most fun place on the planet after all. Who cares about Atlantis?
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Re: Poll

Postby Dredd Times » Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:40 pm

lawbabe wrote:The poll does not cover sourcebooks based in mega-city 1, or sourcebooks based on comic source material. I want to see more adaptations of comic stuff before bringing out all new material - don't run before you can walk! :D
Hello,
All of the source books so far have been taken from exisiting material in the case of both Slaine and Dredd, but please understand that often the writers of this material have had to extrapulate information based on in some cases only a brief mention of a location or event. Everything that is in the Dredd books todate reflects this and likewise Slaine.
I want to see cityblock generation guides and source material, making use of the meg-ways as campaign settings - the jdjc is doing something like that} and information on playing lots more character types from mc-1. A book covering sector landmarks would be cool for anybody basing their games in mc-1. I wont buy any citybooks, but will run to grab more mc-1 guides, its the most fun place on the planet after all. Who cares about Atlantis?
Well Mega-City One is a vast place with millions of citizens and to cover even a sector in detail would be a real undertaking of epic scale. I know that John was working on some ideas about maping out an entire sector and that all the official Mongoose products based in MC1 are set in Sector 190, so it would be nice to see a product that will cover this sector, with all its key landmarks, hot spots and citizens of note.

A cit-block generator could well end up as a lot of paperwork for a GM to keep up with, as each block holds between 20,000 and 120,000 citizens, dependant on the size of the block in question. When you take into account the number of flyways, pedways, tween-block-plazzas, and levels in even the smallest block, you are looking at a very large set of tables to generate such a beast. It could be done but would it really be worth it in the long run.

I do feel that meg-ways as a campaign setting would be pretty much a one tracked thing if you get my drift, though one could always set a campaign based around citizens travelling in convoy from one sector to another, after all the Big Meg is a very strange place to live.

Every source book to date has covered npc material, both the Justice Department and citizens of note, and each has also included a large proportion of new Prior Lives and Prestige Classes to spice up your adventures.

And as for Atlantis? Well it is jointly run by Mega-City One and Brit-Cit and is often seen the gateway into the city, and like Luna-1 it attracts millions of visitors each year.

This poll btw is just a guide to see what the demand is really, and given the small amount of information you can actually place in the questions, its up the those reading the board to extrapalate what they will from these questions.

Source books includes those set in and around the mega-cities of Earth, and its outer colonies, details of the worlds of Slaine and events that have shaped the stories of both strips over the past 26 years.

NPC details would perhaps cover just that, npcs taken from the comics history for both strips, expanding on those who have made a brief entry into the game so far, or perhaps covering in greater detail those characters that have shaped the lives of other more well known characters such as Jug McKenzie and his influence on Chopper.

Historical Books as the question says this would be things such as the Apocalypse War, Necropolis, Zombie War, etc from Dredd, or those epic campaigns that go on for years in the Slaine stories.

The rest really speak for themselves I guess.

Hope that this helps explain the poll.
Marc
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Re: Poll

Postby lawbabe extreme » Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:06 pm

All of the source books so far have been taken from exisiting material in the case of both Slaine and Dredd, but please understand that often the writers of this material have had to extrapulate information based on in some cases only a brief mention of a location or event. Everything that is in the Dredd books todate reflects this and likewise Slaine.
So why not adapt material from the comics instead of creating lots of new material? I wuld have thought that should be the first thing to get down on paper. I dont buy Slaine, need to win the lottery to afford it
A cit-block generator could well end up as a lot of paperwork for a GM to keep up with, as each block holds between 20,000 and 120,000 citizens, dependant on the size of the block in question. When you take into account the number of flyways, pedways, tween-block-plazzas, and levels in even the smallest block, you are looking at a very large set of tables to generate such a beast. It could be done but would it really be worth it in the long run.
I want to be able to run a campaign inside a cityblock, I don't want lots of tables but lots of source material - same applies to a sector setting.
I do feel that meg-ways as a campaign setting would be pretty much a one tracked thing if you get my drift, though one could always set a campaign based around citizens travelling in convoy from one sector to another, after all the Big Meg is a very strange place to live.
Sorry to rain on your parade but I emailed the JDjc and they have pages of meg-way stuff that will appear on the site :twisted: cant wait!!
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Postby hassanisabbah » Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:42 pm

I think it might have made sense to seperate the poll into Slaine and Judge Dredd but....

Dredd - Some Ideas

PJ Maybe's Guide to Block Living - A book entirely dedicated to what its like to live in a block, what makes up a block (legal and otherwise), facilities you might expect, civic organisation, habits, types of apt and how blockers might spend their day outside of crazes (education facilities, cults, nightlife and jobs for example).

The Mike Kerra Catalogue - A book of technology, weapons, vehicles and equipment (legal and otherwise) that appears in the big City, something like the old Cyperpunk Chrome Books. There is an almost criminal shortage of firearms and vehicles for MC-1. This always seemed to sell well for Cyberpunk (either that or make the d20 Cyperpunk game compatable).

The Generic Sector Guide Book - Detailing one sector in detail, including celebrities, megways, pedway and buildings, with a couple of pages per block. Ideally avoid using statistics to save space. Similar prehaps to the excellent Night City Source Book by R A Talsorian

Rookies Guide to Crazy Crazes - the first one was without doubt the best, even better than the Crim Organisations. So much so that our gangster game now has a Surfer mini-game....

History of MC-1 - Not sure how much use these would be, but I know that I am like a sucker that I'd buy a Necropolis, Judgement Day or Block Mania/Appocolypse War setting.

NPCs - Interesting, but generally useless in game - the Most Wanted was interesting, but of little use if set in the current timeline (most of the NPCs were either dead, retired or doing time in Max Security). Again the prestige classes and gear was useful, but the personalities weren't, and where were the Dark Judges - Surely they qualify above some of the entries?

Slaine

Epic Campaigns, definately, or adventures that contain detailed material (like in the Horned God) that can be reused. The Tir Na Nog book covered most of what needs to be known basically. In the comics theres not much concentration on setting, mostly its Slaine and his adventures. Fantasy games do seem to suffer these days from a plague of endless sourcebooks, and too few adventures. Prehaps modules in a similar format to the old AD&D style.

The Horned God is fantastic, but immediately banished one tribe from the players at the start (Shadows). Still it made up for it.

The Big Book of Bad Guys - In Four parts, Els, Cythrons, Formorians and Drunnes. Theres so much on the tribes but nothing on the villians. Interesting as the tribes books were, theres nothing in them that we could have lived without (personally speaking).

Tir Na Nog Beastry - A Slaine Monster Manual. Nuff Said.
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lawbabe

Poll

Postby lawbabe » Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:11 pm

Two posts in one day - a miracle!!! :D

We all want lots more dredd books but it depends on sales right? I think half of the Dredd series did not sell very well but they sold more than Slaine right? 2004 is the make or break year for the Dredd role-playing game. If the first few dont sell then I may never get my cityblock book!! :(

BTW how many copies of Dredd and Slain were sold in relation to other mongoose books and is the makret for 2000AD role-palying games bigger than it was for games workshop - I know that 2000ad has a far lower readership than in 1985.

TIA
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Re: Poll

Postby frobisher » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:47 am

lawbabe wrote:I know that 2000ad has a far lower readership than in 1985.
But a large chunk of them are the same though, and now they're older with more money :)

If you discount the old Citadel miniatures, Mongoose have produced a hell of a lot more than GW did for their game (plus they've got nearly another 20 years of material to cover), in a shorter time scale. Just from that I'd say that sales must be okay.
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Postby Dredd Times » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:53 am

The sales of 2000AD are not as high as they where in the late 70's when the comic first came out, but when you take into account that even the top selling Marvel and DC comics have a monthy circulation of around 150,000 in the states and compare that the the 35,000 or so that 2000AD has in the UK per week, and then factor in the population of the UK in comparision, you will see that if 2000AD where a US comic book it would be constantly in the top sellers.

It is the loyal fanbase that has kept that comic afloat over the past three decades, rather than an influx of new readers, and the majority of readers of 2000AD and the Megazine are aged 30+, myself included.

Thank you all for the comments about the poll, I will post more as soon as I get a break from work.

Marc
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Postby hassanisabbah » Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:00 am

Also most of the accalimed American Comic Books of the 80s and 90s are/were writen by people who had come to light through 2000AD. So much so that DC opened an office in the UK. There was a period, 88-92 when 2000AD had a dream team cast of regualar writers.

Alan Moore, Gaiman (?)Grant Morrison, Mark Millar, Jamie Delano, Peter Milligan, Neil Gaiman, Garth Ennis and Warren Ellis (?) all came to the attention of DC comics via 2000AD/Fleetway offshoots and related comics.

All of whom have been central to the modern era renassance in comics, spearheaded by Alan Moores magnificant Swamp Thing. Comics grew up during this era.

A lot of comic fans in the UK were introduced to American Comics in this way, but alas a lot of them soon stopped buying 2000AD (me included), as they followed the writers across, as 2000ADs quality started to drop and a weekly title became a pain to pick up at the newsagents.

More interestingly Karen Berger stated that without 2000AD there would have been no VERTIGO Imprint (all its original writers had already hit the big time in the UK via 2000AD). Month in Month out most of these guys feature in the Wizard Guides top 10 writers.

The Modern Era of Comics was born in the pages of 2000AD Dr and Quinch and the Ballard of Halo Jones, along with Mavelman brought Alan Moore to the attention of the US - They offered him Swamp Thing, 20 issues in and close to cancellation, with a free reign as it was seen as a safe way to test out new talent. The rest as they say is history - It became a historical landmark, comperable to the X-Men and Amazing Fantasy 15 (Spiderman), and soon comics were being reviewed by the Telegraph and Guardian, winning literature awards and a whole market was openned.

Alas 2000AD never really benefitted from all this as it lost a generation of the worlds best writers of comics to America and Dredd continued to go down poorly in America, its far too British in its humour.....
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lawbabe

Poll

Postby lawbabe » Thu Sep 18, 2003 1:42 pm

But if you remember from a while ago on this group - or was it sonewhere else - the mongoose honch said the Dredd adventures sold badly and the rules expansions did not sell much better but Brit Cit did okay. I wonder why more books are scheduled based on a middling license when more dosh could be made from plundering other licenses? The new dredd vs death game has got awful reviews <i saw one on Sky this week that gave it 2 out of five - it would have been one out of five but the reviewer added one point because he liked judge dredd :)> Dred sounds like its on a losing streak which is sad because I love the idea of a dredd rpg.
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Postby hassanisabbah » Thu Sep 18, 2003 2:00 pm

The problem with Dredd may be the limitations of playing Judges, though its an excellent game for playing citizens, being a judge does somewhat limit you.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I am never going to see many more suppliments, largely because -

a) Games Workshop couldn't make it last
b) Mongoose have other much more successful lines to concentrate on (and lots of them - damn you for being so bloody good!)
c) JD has a very limited appeal base (Roleplayers who know JD and maybe a few dredd fans)

The two new films may save it, but the previous film was so bad I can't hang my hopes on that.

I don't think Mongoose will abandon them, rather their concentration elsewhere will be the priority (they are a company after all). Maybe one book a year tops - I am hoping the d20 Cyberpunk will be compatable.

Which is a shame because the Big Meg is such a cool place to stage adventures, as its so damn limitless. Still there is always hope for it becoming a sleeper hit, but don't bet the chickens....

Alternatively they may farm out the license to smaller companies prehaps to cover supporting material? I know Cubicle 7 were interested in producing material.
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Dredd Future

Postby lawbabe » Thu Sep 18, 2003 2:50 pm

The lack of fan site support for dredd says it all - nobody seems interested in it. If youve heard of the Judge Dredd justice Central site, its run by Matt Sharpe and John Calbre who both write jd role-playing games for mongoose. John says that his readership has actually gone down since the mongoose games came out, which is funny because shouldnt the game bring more players into the series, not less? John said he was going to look into publishing a low cost Dredd rpg before he found out mongoose had got it, and might have another bash when mongoose give it ip. I know a a lot of guys who have stuck to the games workshop books even though mongoose has brought out loads of new stuff since. In my gaming neighbourhood, more play g. workshop than D20 dredd.

Anyway, whatever rules you use, the fact is that Dredd does not command a big following, though its followers are very loyal. In time, sales will fall below profitable levels and the game will go the way of GW Dredd - not because of anything mongoose has done wrong but because thats the nature of rpg sales - the longer a series goes on the smaller the sales get.
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Postby hassanisabbah » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:48 pm

There does seem to be very few posting fans. I can see the time coming where all this site contains is immature cheap jokes, and howebrew material for Slaine and Dredd....

Americans don't know what they're missing....
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Dearth of material

Postby satyre » Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:08 am

So maybe, just maybe we need to do something about it?

From a Slaine fan site perspective, there ain't much out there. That I can find more on the Slaine computer game than the RPG (once you get past the game shop catalogue pages) bothers me. If I'm not mistaken, the one I'm working on will be the first for the RPG other than Mongoose!

Dredd has better fan support from the sound of it but let's not kid ourselves, if you say Judge Dredd to most people, they'll think of the movie with Sly Stallone and Armand Assante. This may be why people aren't flocking. They just don't know...

Keeping the good stuff to ourselves helps nobody - the question is, why are we holding back? Are we displaying our traditional reserve or are we afraid of not being right on this?
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Postby Matt Sharp » Sat Sep 27, 2003 6:48 pm

hassanisabbah wrote:
PJ Maybe's Guide to Block Living - A book entirely dedicated to what its like to live in a block, what makes up a block (legal and otherwise), facilities you might expect, civic organisation, habits, types of apt and how blockers might spend their day outside of crazes (education facilities, cults, nightlife and jobs for example).
P.J. Maybe isn't really an average blocker (he's a serial killer, who lives in a mansion most of the time). I like this idea though.
History of MC-1 - Not sure how much use these would be, but I know that I am like a sucker that I'd buy a Necropolis, Judgement Day or Block Mania/Appocolypse War setting.
I agree it would be interesting, but probably not a lot of use.
NPCs - Interesting, but generally useless in game - the Most Wanted was interesting, but of little use if set in the current timeline (most of the NPCs were either dead, retired or doing time in Max Security). Again the prestige classes and gear was useful, but the personalities weren't, and where were the Dark Judges - Surely they qualify above some of the entries?
Unfortunately, nearly all villians to appear in the Judge Dredd stories are dead or in the Cubes - with the recent execution of Orlok, there's pretty much only Chopper (who's in Mega-City One's Most Wanted) and P.J. Maybe (who should have an extensive profile and history in the 'More Most Wanted' article in S&P 4, out next month) who are still alive and at liberty. Others, such as the Dark Judges, have god-like powers that make giving them stats extremely difficult.
lawbabe

Re: Dearth of material

Postby lawbabe » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:06 pm

satyre wrote:Dredd has better fan support from the sound of it but let's not kid ourselves, if you say Judge Dredd to most people, they'll think of the movie with Sly Stallone and Armand Assante. This may be why people aren't flocking. They just don't know...
I dont think a Dred roleplaying game has legs in any format - too off the beaten track and you have to collect 25+ years worth of comics to make proper use of the setting - thats why I asked for sourcebooks about MC-1 and the rich history of JD, not city books about Atlantis - :evil: - boring rulebooks and adventures. I agree that we Brits have a lot to learn from the USA rpg fans. We dont show enthusiasm for anything, though Mongoose JD is hardly brilliant I gotta say. I might buy under-city, but none of the other books until something more juicy comes out.
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Postby hassanisabbah » Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:35 pm

P J Maybe, well it was just a case of me thinking it was a snappy title and somehow it couldn't be a Rookies Guide.

Prehaps Galen DeMarcos guide to MC High Society?

Finally a player of mine asked a question, that I have had trouble finiding a sufficent answer for. With 87% unemployment, and massive welfare, how does MC-1 Provide a sufficent Ecconomy to survive. Do the 13% make such profits that their taxes allow for the financing of the city and the populace with enough left over to allow small business to prosper.

The only answer I could come up with was that of a planned ecconomy - By the JD Treasury, which is of course the basis of a Communist State.
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Postby Dredd Times » Mon Sep 29, 2003 2:58 pm

Hi Hassansisabbah,
I would guess that the majority of MC1's revenue is derived from Munce and other food products and its export of equipment and technologies to other mega-cities around the world.

Also I think that unemployment is actually higher than 87% and closer to 97% but I could be wrong.

Btw been meaning to post about you Sector 21 thread. Nice work and some excellent ideas there that could make a great campaign setting. Well done :)

Marc
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Concerned Dredd player

Postby Concerned Dredd player » Mon Sep 29, 2003 3:42 pm

the JD universe does not stand up to scrutiny - its fast and fun and loose with continuity. Business matters are best left out of rpg books, or else the game is starting to turn into another ganre altogether. I hope Mongoose dont come up with a world trade guide - I can see it now, hydrotankers visiting foreign shores, attacked by atlantic pirates in flying subs - PLLLLLEEEEEEZZZZEEE!!! Its not JD - keep it real and in MC-1. Lets have more wacky citizens, lethal criminals and some great original artwork instead of dodgy comic scans?
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Postby Matt Sharp » Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:22 pm

Dredd Times wrote: Also I think that unemployment is actually higher than 87% and closer to 97% but I could be wrong.
It varies from Sector to Sector - the City as a whole has an unemployment rate of about 87%, Sector 301 had a 97% rate at the time of 'The Pit'. It also rather depends on the writer - Alan Grant makes it higher than John Wagner.
Dredd Times wrote: Btw been meaning to post about you Sector 21 thread. Nice work and some excellent ideas there that could make a great campaign setting. Well done :)
I agree - very good!

I've no idea how the MC1 economy works, though...

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